Israel warns: free soldier or PM dies

Middle East correspondent Martin Chulov
July 01, 2006
ISRAEL last night threatened to assassinate Palestinian Prime Minister Ismael Haniyeh if Hamas militants did not release a captured Israeli soldier unharmed.

The unprecedented warning was delivered to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in a letter as Israel debated a deal offered by Hamas to free Corporal Gilad Shalit.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19645805-2703,00.html

Looking for Mr.Wudjab comment on the unprecedented warning.
Does it call state terror?
News not published by al jiz

Why did Hamas backed militants capture an Israeli soldier and execute a kidnapped Israeli civilian ?

No kiddnapping, no threats.

Your hypocrisy is breathtaking.

You did not think of posting a single line to protest the kidnapping of israeli citizens.

You have your undies in a bunch when Israel (rightly) retailiates.

Why did Hamas backed militants capture an Israeli soldier and execute a kidnapped Israeli civilian ?



Do you understand the differences between militant and Government?

No kiddnapping, no threats.

Do you agree, if there is kidnapping, execution of civilian, threat is legitimate?

Your hypocrisy is breathtaking.

You did not think of posting a single line to protest the kidnapping of israeli citizens.

You have your undies in a bunch when Israel (rightly) retailiates.

I support Palestinian right to fight against Zion’s occupation.

And I support Israels right to retaliate.

So we are even.

In the end.... the Palestinians will lose some more.

The Hamas charter is clear........the complete destruction of democracy member of the UN........

Isn't that like saying our government approves the genocide of the Jewish people?

sayid fatak

The Hamas charter is clear........the complete destruction of a democratic member of the UN........

Isn't that like saying our government approves the genocide of the Jewish people?

I think all of the members of the UN should condem Hamas and the support a complete boycott, until they change their charter and pursue a path of peaceful coexistence.

sayid fatak

I'm both new here and Jewish so I'm aware any post I write will be viewed warily at first. I accidentally came across this website and had a pleasant concersation with braiki about the Old Testament. Anyway, I appreciate Fatak's and Wudjab's comments. I am Jewish, but I am not a Zionist (belive it or not there are actually many of us). Human lives are equal, no matter how they pray. Just as abominable are the actions taken by Israelis leading up to this climax. However, you can keep going further and further back in the retaliation game, but in the end that doesn't get us anywhere and people are still disenfranchised and dead. If any reasonable outcome is going to happen it can only be through peace and dialogue. Unfortunately, most dialogue between Israelis and Palestinians fail, with both sides sharing the blame. However, there have been some successes. I agree with Fatak and Wudjab concerning their citicisms of Hamas. If they don't change their character to a more cooporative one, I fear that more people will be hurt on both sides. Releasing the hostages unharmed would be like extending an olive branch. Peace and mercy create more peace and mercy. That statement should, of course, be applied to the Israelis as well.

In my brief participation in discussions on this site I have been welcomed and have felt a warm sense of hospitality by it's members. That's why I decided to post in this thread, a more controversial one. I don't mean to stray off topic; I just wanted to put that out there. Diversity in participation never hurt anyone right?

The Hamas charter is clear........the complete destruction of a democratic member of the UN........

Isn't that like saying our government approves the genocide of the Jewish people?

I think all of the members of the UN should condem Hamas and the support a complete boycott, until they change their charter and pursue a path of peaceful coexistence.

sayid fatak

Are you impartial on the issue?
Hamas is democratically elected by Palestinian.
Palestinian means Hamas presently.
Look, through might, people inspiration can be suppressed for time being but that cannot be eliminated.
More torture , more bloodshed.
And that not wanted, desired.
Both the party should be honest to establish peace.

Among the vocal anti Zion’s , you can include me.
You are very much welcome to exchange your views and ideas.
Your kind participation will enrich our knowledge.
I have gone through your reply and like to ask the first question.

I am Jewish, but I am not a Zionist (believe it or not there are actually many of us).

Q. How do you differentiate between Jews and Zion’s?
Next Question follows.

Sometimes when you hear muslims talk, they speak as if the Jewish people came from MARS......they seem to forget that the Jews were living in the Middle East side by side with them for over 2000 years or more......

Only when the European Jews came to the area.......they cried foul, this is our land!!!!!!

The Arab muslims always have this tribal thing going.......even they don't respect Indonesians.......ir other Asians who are muslims.......

And they didn't lift a finger to help the Kurds......instead they took their lands and murdered them.

The Hamas wants war, so what do you expect the Israelis to do......

"Here I am behind the tree, come kill me"

I support the state of Palestine.......coextisting side by side with Israel.....

sayid fatak

And they didn't lift a finger to help the Kurds......instead they took their lands and murdered them.

sayid fatak
I know this is off topic, but could u explain in detail?

I know this is off topic, but could u explain in detail?

http://members.aol.com/KHilfsvere/Kurds.html

fatak

Welcome Dan, I liked your reply, hope you keep posting around here.

In response to the topic, threatening to kill the PM is an arrogant reaction we've come to expect from the Israeli government. In fact, the whole push into Gaza is as well. It doesnt solve anything. Its just meant to put further fear into the hearts of palestinians, in an effort to get them to turn against whoever's kidnapped this soldier...i.e. terrorist tactics - to influence public thought via fear and terror. Its practically a textbook definition.

So why was this soldier kidnapped? The BBC carried an article which was very interesting, and which got buried pretty quick under all the rhetoric...but I saved the link when I saw it last week, I think. The link is below, and I've pasted parts I find important... have a read.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5122056.stm

The Palestinian militant factions who captured Cpl Gilad Shalit on Sunday - including the Izzedine al-Qassam Brigades, the military wing of the ruling Hamas party - have called for the release of all Palestinian women and children held in Israeli prisons in return for news on the missing soldier.

Israel is believed to have about 100 women and 300 under-18s among the more than 8,000 Palestinian prisoners in its jails.

Mr Houdaly says his wife, Ataf, 44, headed a women's organisation dedicated to providing health services for poor Palestinians.

But for the last seven months, Mr Houdaly says, she has been held in Israeli prison under administration detention - imprisonment without charge.

[b]The mother went on a 16-day hunger strike before the Israeli prison authorities allowed her baby Aesha to be brought to stay with her, in the jail[b/], Mr Houdaly says.

It is women and children such as Ataf and Aesha that the militant factions would like to see released.

Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails are an emotive issue for the majority of families in the occupied Palestinian territories, says George Jiacaman, a political science professor at the West Bank's Birzeit University.

"Since the political process between the Palestinians and the Israelis is dead, many Palestinians think that the only way to get prisoners from jail is through some kind of exchange," he says.




Hopefully that sheds a bit of light on the issue.

If only it was so simple, PT.

Reality is that most of these women have blood on their hands.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060627.MIDESATSIDE27/TPStory/TPInternational/Africa/

there is something i think most people (muslim or not) do not relize about the genetic background of Arabs. there is in fact a bit of Jewish blood in the people living between Makkah and Madeena. sure, they are mostly muslims now, but to say that we hate Jews and seek their destruction is totally unfounded. there are still some jews living is KSA and Yemen.

the real problem we have is with an agressive political indety named Israel. the fact that its a jewish state does not change anything. we also dont support jenocide as a means of solving the problem. its a bit like when christains set up the crusader kingdom. that threat was dealt with in a very matter-of-fact manned. that is, we idetified the threat being foriegn invaders. the fact they were christains did not change anything. it was a political solution through military means.

United States President George W. Bush said on Saturday that freeing an Israeli soldier captured by Palestinian gunmen was key to ending the crisis in Gaza and should be the initial goal.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3269690,00.html
So green signal is there.

How do you differentiate between Zionists and Jews? Easy. Zionism is a belief in the right of Jews to have a state in the promised land. People are Zionists for either biblical or political reasons. Zionism is a movement. It's like asking are all Muslims Wahabis? No, of course not. It's a certain ideology within a greater religion, an ideology that only some of the people share. Interstingly, there are many Zionists who are not even Jewish. Many fundamental Christians are Zionsts as well. Moreover, there even different kinds of Zionists. There are right wing and left wing Zionists. Right wing Zionists are more conservative and more absolute in the the Jewish people's right to have a state. They generally don't care how this is done, i.e. peacefully or violently. Left wing Zionists want a state as well, but are much more concerned that Israel be a peaceful state, that the state respects the rights of the Palestinians, and that the state have peaceful relations with its neighbors. The Zionist issue is a complex one, with no simple answers and many shades a grey, like almost all political questions.

As far as the push back into Gaza? It was the result of Hamas militants firing rockets into Israeli towns near the border after the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza a few weeks ago. The Israeli government then made an unwise and inhumane choice, as they often do, to fire their own missiles in an attempt to knock out militiants who were firing missiles into their territiory. The whole thing illustrates my belief that people with guns never solve problems, unless the goal is the obliteration on one side. Israel's goal, despite their terrible actions, is not to obliterate the Palestiians. Unfortunately, Hamas' goal is the obliteration of Israel. How can you make peace when one side only wishes for the others' destruction?

Going tit-for-tat on this issue, or in the broader Mid East conflict, will not get you anywhere except each side retelling how it has been victimized for the past 50 years. Peace is not made in this way. Peace is made not by looking to the past, but to the future. For whom do we make peace? For our ancestors or for our future descendants? We try to learn for our ancestors but we do not live for them. We try to make this world a better place for our children so they will not have to suffer like we did. The wise people on both sides, who are far too few in number, understand that you have to broaden your perspective and imagine yourself as your adversary to undertand their perspective. Besides, a Palestinian mother's tears and and Israeli mother's tears are both water and salt (they're the same).

As far as the push back into Gaza? It was the result of Hamas militants firing rockets into Israeli towns near the border after the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza a few weeks ago. The Israeli government then made an unwise and inhumane choice, as they often do, to fire their own missiles in an attempt to knock out militiants who were firing missiles into their territiory.

Let us have a look to the catastrophe made by Israeli Zion’s.
Will the Palestinian be able to forget this nightmare in future?
Is this the way of retaliations?
Mr.Dan, what do you think?

“ On Wednesday, Israeli war planes repeatedly bombed and utterly demolished Gaza's only power plant. About 700,000 of Gaza's 1.3 million people now have no electricity, and word is that power cannot be restored for six months

It is not the immediate human conditions created by this strike that are monumental. Those conditions are, of course, bad enough. No lights, no refrigerators, no fans through the suffocating Gaza summer heat. No going outside for air, due to ongoing bombing and Israel's impending military assault. In the hot darkness, massive explosions shake the cities, close and far, while repeated sonic booms are doubtless wreaking the havoc they have wrought before: smashing windows, sending children screaming into the arms of terrified adults, old people collapsing with heart failure, pregnant women collapsing with spontaneous abortions. Mass terror, despair, desperate hoarding of food and water. And no radios, television, cell phones, or laptops (for the few who have them), and so no way to get news of how long this nightmare might go on.

But this time, the situation is worse than that. As food in the refrigerators spoils, the only remaining food is grains. Most people cook with gas, but with the borders sealed, soon there will be no gas. When family-kitchen propane tanks run out, there will be no cooking. No cooked lentils or beans, no humus, no bread * the staples Palestinian foods, the only food for the poor. (And there is no firewood or coal in dry, overcrowded Gaza.)

And yet, even all this misery is overshadowed by a grimmer fact: no water. Gaza's public water supply is pumped by electricity. The taps, too, are dry. No sewage system. And again, word is that the electricity is out for at least six months.

In short, over a million civilians are now trapped, hunkered in their homes listening to Israeli shells, while facing the awful prospect, within days or weeks, of having to give toxic water to their children that may consign them to quick but agonizing deaths.

The Author of the articale goes on asking
And what says noble Europe, proud font of human rights conventions, architects of the misión civilizatrice? "The EU remains deeply concerned," mumbles the mighty defenders of humanitarian law, "about the worsening security and humanitarian developments." Seemingly soggy phrases like "deeply concerned" are diplomatic code for "We are seriously unhappy." But under these circumstances, "remains deeply concerned" suggests that this staggering crime is just one more sobering moment in the failed "road map."

Israel has done many things argued to be war crimes: mass house demolitions, closing whole cities for weeks, indefinite "preventative" detentions, massive land confiscation, the razing of thousands of square miles of Palestinian olive groves and agriculture, systematic physical and mental torture of prisoners, extrajudicial killings, aerial bombardment of civilian areas, collective punishment of every description in defiance of the Geneva Conventions--not to mention the general humiliation and ruin of the indigenous people under its military control. But destroying the only power source for a trapped and defenseless civilian population is an unprecedented step toward barbarity. It reeks, ironically, of the Warsaw Ghetto. As we flutter our hands about tectonic political change, we must take pause: in the eyes of history, what is happening in Gaza may come to eclipse them all."


Israel's Appalling Bombing in Gaza
Starving in the Dark
By VIRGINIA TILLEY
http://www.counterpunch.org/tilley06302006.html

What do you all think?
Did Israel deliberately creating such human catastrophe?
Bush has extended his support to Zion’s.
Is Bush also a Zion’s?

I guess I'll start with your obvious questions: Bush is a Zionist, most fundamental Christians are. In fact, some of the most dogmatic Zoinists aren't even Jewish.

You're relating the latest tregedies in Gaza is worthwile but doesn't come to any particular point in and of itself. The people of Gaza and the West Bank elected Hamas to represent them. Where's Hamas during all this? Holding hostages and engaged in a destructive stare down? Is that really the best way to alleviate the sufferings of your people? Like you said, people are suffering and Hamas could provide their relief by controling their militants and releasing the hostages. Peace does not come through taking and executing hostiges.

I don't condone the actions taken by the Israelis. Indeed, their responses are too often misguided, foolish, and callous. But they are not alone. Each side is so unwilling to recognize the value of life on the other side. The impetus, however, is on Hamas at this time. Israel had withdrawn and some people within Hamas brought them back in by firing rockets into Israeli territiory.

It seems like Hamas is fragmenting under pressures from within and without the ogranization and that more and more of its members are beyond its control. I don't even know if Hamas can control all of its members at this point, but that's just my guess. I really have no way of knowing for certain.

Peace does not come through taking and executing hostiges.

Worthy comment.
In normal situation that is not the solution.
Please look to the statement of opponent,
"There is one soldier, but there have been hundreds of Palestinians kidnapped from their houses,"
Ramallah resident Walid al-Houdaly, whose wife and 18-month-old child are in an Israeli jail, told the BBC News website:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5122822.stm

Yeah, the Israelis do it too. Both sides are flawed. I feel sorry for the Palestinian and Israeli PEOPLE, not their leaderships. Those are the ones who really suffer. Again, taking an us vs. them position is never going to lead anywhere good. And both sides are plenty guilty of that. When in your life have you resolved a serious problem in your community when each side is being viciuosly antagonistic?

But that wasn't even the main point of my post. The ineffectiveness of Hamas was my subject.

Palestinians are not united, look to the statement.

“PA President Abbas says efforts to diplomatically resolve crisis over abducted soldier are being set back by confusion over who has decision-making power on Palestinian side - Hamas government or militants holding the captive.”
From the beginning Hamas government are being treated as out cast.
People emotion and sentiment has disregarded.
So new faction are coming up and they are going out of command.

Israel has attacked. Luckily there have been no casulties (well not reported).

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060701/ts_nm/mideast_airstrike_dc_4

Israel has attacked. Luckily there have been no casulties (well not reported).

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060701/ts_nm/mideast_airstrike_dc_4

????
:think: :os

No one has come forth to say that they were injured or that someone has died.

Arabs were captured because they were known participants in terror activities, not because they were arabs. Unlike the Jews who were captured and murdered, whose only "crime" was that they were Jews.

As for this "threat"--if only they would do so. But the gov't's track record in talking tough but behaving cowardly indicates that they have no intention of doing anything of the sort.

i think mono forggets that 60% of palestinians killed are children.

Quote “I think that it’s another act of Israeli state sponsored terrorism. I don't understand what they have achieved by bombing the elected Palestinian Prime Minister's office and electricity stations in Gaza. It negates the Geneva conventions. I think USA's refusal to abide by the Geneva conventions is prompting Israel to ignore them as well” Unquote.

Draconus, the unsupported claim in your post did not address the point raised in mine.

They should abduct more soldiers

And how would that solve anything, we saw Israels reaction, do you actually want more missiles heading Gaza's way?

And how would that solve anything, we saw Israels reaction, do you actually want more missiles heading Gaza's way?

They love to send missiles to Gaza's.

No reason require.

They love to send missiles to Gaza's.

No reason require.

There was a reason for these missiles. Abducting more soldiers would be most definitely asking for it.

I surprise , are we that human being who born with rationality?

Are the Palestinians firing Qassam rockets into Israeil civilian neighbourhoods ?

I support the Palestinian right to get their occupied land.
With the same time, Palestinian should try to understand the cruel fact that Israel is a reality.
Israel must have to understand, they wont be able to solve the problem by fighting with the Palestinian.
More than fifty years has passed.
There is no peace.
Neither Israel can be eliminated nor Palestinians.
No wars go for dialogue.

Are the Palestinians firing Qassam rockets into Israeil civilian neighbourhoods ?
of course they are, they have been for years now--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qassam_rocket#List_of_notable_Qassam_attacks--except the skewed western meida deliberately doesn't report it, and the cowardly Israeli gov't acts as if it doesn't exist

shamsery, the Torah aka Bible says clearly that this land is the eternal inheritance of every single Jew numerous times:

Throughout the Bible we find G-d's promises to give the Land of Israel to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and their descendants for all future generations.

The following is a brief selection of Biblical sources that demonstrate the Jewish ownership of the Holy Land of Israel, both through divine promise and acquisition.

G-d appeared to Abram and said, "To your offspring I will give this land." Genesis 12:7.

G-d said to Abram … "Raise now your eyes and look out from where you are: northward, southward, eastward, and westward. For all the land that you see, to you will I give it, and to your descendants forever." Genesis 13:14-15.

G-d said to Abram…"Arise, walk about the land through its length and breadth! For to you will I give it." Genesis 13:17.

Abraham purchases Cave of Machpela in Hebron. Genesis 15:7. 15:18-21. 17:8. 23:16-18.

G-d promises that Isaac shall inherit Abraham. Genesis 17:19. 21:12.

Abraham gives all his possessions to Isaac. Genesis 25:5.

Abraham was buried in the Cave of Machpela. Genesis 25:10.

G-d promises Isaac that He will fulfill His promise of the land to Abraham. Genesis 26:3-4.

Isaac hands down the promise of the land to Jacob. Genesis 28:4.

G-d promises the Land of Israel to Jacob. Genesis 28:13.

Jacob purchases land in Shechem. Genesis 33:19.

G-d promises to give Jacob and his offspring the Land of Israel. Genesis 35:12.

Jacob gives Shechem to Joseph. Genesis 48:21-22.

Joseph tells his brothers G-d will remember His promise to Abraham Isaac and Jacob. Genesis 49:30. 50:13. 50:24.

G-d tells Moses to tell the Jews that He will bring them to the land promised to Abraham Isaac and Jacob. Exodus 6:8

Moses promises redemption and the Jewish inheritance of Israel. Deuteronomy 30:3-5.

Shammy, do you support the firiing of Qassam rockets into Isreali civilian areas ?

Do you support using the Gaza strip to fire these rockets into Israel ?

the way i see it, if they can use multimillion dollar weapnry to bomb Gaza and kill all them children, then its okay to use those home-made lousy Qassam rockets in retaliation. its eye for an eye. actually, their rockets cant hit sh*t.

i think that if Hamas could secure some real military hardware, they would engage in a pure military strugle. man to man, tank to tank. i dont doubt their curage.

How is it that the Australian newspaper has managed to scoop the world on this story..............why has no other media outlet confirmed this story?

Where is the proof of this 'letter'?

Surely the Palestinians would be showing this letter to the world?

Shammy, do you support the firiing of Qassam rockets into Isreali civilian areas ?


No , I don’t support.

How is it that the Australian newspaper has managed to scoop the world on this story..............why has no other media outlet confirmed this story?

Where is the proof of this 'letter'?

Surely the Palestinians would be showing this letter to the world?

We're not that backwards, Mate :)

The journalist is an Australian who works for an Australian newspaper don't know where he gets his info from.

the way i see it, if they can use multimillion dollar weapnry to bomb Gaza and kill all them children, then its okay to use those home-made lousy Qassam rockets in retaliation. its eye for an eye. actually, their rockets cant hit sh*t.

i think that if Hamas could secure some real military hardware, they would engage in a pure military strugle. man to man, tank to tank. i dont doubt their curage.
Actually, you have it all backwards. Hamas and their cronies have been consistently firing rockets against Jewish villages for 4 years now from Gaza (and all the more after the idiotic expulsion perpetrated by the Israeli gov't). And the cowardly Israeli gov't has done almost nothing to retaliate against this provocation. Even now, these cowards have only bombed some buildings and bridges and demanding the hostage, instead of taking out the terrorists themselves. As for their rockets, you have your facts wrong--many, many people have been wounded and murdered by them. Aside from those who live in constant fear of attacks.

No , I don’t support.

We are making progress.

So if you do not support firing Qassam rockets into Israeli civilian areas, do you think Israel, as a soverign state, has the right to react to this continuous, ongoing provocation ?

If no, why not ?

We are making progress.

So if you do not support firing Qassam rockets into Israeli civilian areas, do you think Israel, as a soverign state, has the right to react to this continuous, ongoing provocation ?

If no, why not ?

As I go through the replies of our different Pro American, Pro Zion’s learned participants here on Israeli massacre in Gaza, the following phrases keep coming up, "unprovoked attack," "unprovoked murder," "unprovoked killings." “ Unprovoked abduction” “Unprovoked rocket fire” etc.
What they expect from Palestinian?
Let us try to find out the answer to the question by the way of analogy.
Allow me to take help of Mr. PAUL D’AMTTO, the Associate Editor of the International Socialist Review.
“If someone conducts an armed invasion into your house and shoots you in your sleep, it is clear, is it not, that it is an unprovoked attack.

Now, let's say you violently resist the armed home invader and, in the ensuing melee, he kills you--did you provoke him to attack? Is a condition of the home invader's attack being "unprovoked" that the homeowner submit peacefully to the home invasion? No, it would still be an unprovoked attack. The action of the homeowner, on the other hand, would be a provoked attack, i.e., an attack provoked by the home invader.” Mr. PAUL D’AMTTO

The problem with the term “unprovoked attack” "unprovoked murder," "unprovoked killings." “ Unprovoked abduction” “Unprovoked rocket fire” is that it deliberately obscures the larger picture –that Israeli invasion and occupation of Palestinian land is itself is an unprovoked attack by a foreign army on the Palestinian people. All Israeli armed action in Palestine is provoked in the sense; all Palestinians reactions to it are provoked by the occupation. (Adapted , Mr. PAUL D’AMTTO)
This analysis is equality applicable for Iraq occupation.
Mr. PAUL D’AMTTO goes on,

Military occupations almost always become total wars on the occupied population, because the majority seethe with hatred against the occupiers and eventually resist by whatever means at their disposal. Within that group, a significant minority are provoked to such outrage that they decide to take up the gun against the occupier.

“Whatever the means at their disposal”: we are to notice these words.
Abduction of soldier falls in this category.
I condemn this unjust war on Palestinian and ask every one to show the utmost patience to resolve the problem through dialogue.

So now you are saying that you support the firing of Qassam rockets into Isreali civilian areas ?

If you believe that Hamas has a right to abduct a soldier from within Israel, then the Isrealis have every right to react to that provocation.

You posted from the International Socialist Review (s******, s******) :D :D

How does a post from Time sound to you ?

Remember What Happened Here

Israel Invades Gaza. That is in response to an attack from Gaza that killed two Israelis and wounded another, who was kidnapped and brought back to Gaza ...which, in turn, was in response to Israel's targeted killing of terrorist leaders in Gaza...which, in turn, was in response to the indiscriminate shelling of Israeli towns by rockets launched from Gaza.

Of all the conflicts in the world, the one that seems the most tediously and hopelessly endless is the Arab-Israeli dispute, which has been going on in much the same way, it seems, for 60 years. Just about every story you'll see will characterize Israel's invasion of Gaza as a continuation of the cycle of violence.

Cycles are circular. They have no end. They have no beginning. That is why, as tempting as that figure of speech is to use, in this case it is false. It is as false as calling American attacks on Taliban remnants in Afghanistan part of a cycle of violence between the U.S. and al-Qaeda or, as Osama bin Laden would have it, between Islam and the Crusaders going back to 1099. Every party has its grievances--even Hitler had his list when he invaded Poland in 1939--but every conflict has its origin.

What is so remarkable about the current wave of violence in Gaza is that the event at the origin of the "cycle" is not at all historical, but very contemporary. The event is not buried in the mists of history. It occurred less than one year ago. Before the eyes of the whole world, Israel left Gaza. Every Jew, every soldier, every military installation, every remnant of Israeli occupation was uprooted and taken away.

How do the Palestinians respond? What have they done with Gaza, the first Palestinian territory in history to be independent, something neither the Ottomans nor the British nor the Egyptians nor the Jordanians, all of whom ruled Palestinians before the Israelis, ever permitted? On the very day of Israel's final pullout, the Palestinians began firing rockets out of Gaza into Israeli towns on the other side of the border. And remember: those are attacks not on settlers but on civilians in Israel proper, the pre-1967 Israel that the international community recognizes as legitimately part of sovereign Israel, a member state of the U.N. A thousand rockets have fallen since.

For what possible reason? Before the withdrawal, attacks across the border could have been rationalized with the usual Palestinian mantra of occupation, settlements and so on. But what can one say after the withdrawal?

The logic for those continued attacks is to be found in the so-called phase plan adopted in 1974 by the Palestine National Council in Cairo. Realizing that they would never be able to destroy Israel in one fell swoop, the Palestinians adopted a graduated plan to wipe out Israel. First, accept any territory given to them in any part of historic Palestine. Then, use that sanctuary to wage war until Israel is destroyed.

So in 2005 the Palestinians are given Gaza, free of any Jews. Do they begin building the state they say they want, constructing schools and roads and hospitals? No. They launch rockets at civilians and dig a 300-yard tunnel under the border to attack Israeli soldiers and bring back a hostage.
And this time the terrorism is carried out not by some shadowy group that the Palestinian leader can disavow, however disingenuously. This is Hamas in action--the group that was recently elected to lead the Palestinians. At least there is now truth in advertising: a Palestinian government openly committed to terrorism and to the destruction of a member state of the U.N. openly uses terrorism to carry on its war.
That is no cycle. That is an arrow. That is action with a purpose. The action began 59 years ago when the U.N. voted to solve the Palestine conundrum then ruled by Britain by creating a Jewish state and a Palestinian state side by side. The Jews accepted the compromise; the Palestinians rejected it and joined five outside Arab countries in a war to destroy the Jewish state and take all the territory for themselves.

They failed, and Israel survived. That remains, in the Palestinian view, Israel's original sin, the foundational crime for the cycle: Israel's survival. That's the reason for the rockets, for the tunneling, for the kidnapping--and for Israel's current response.

If that history is too ancient, consider the history of the past 12 months. Gaza is free of occupation, yet Gaza wages war. Why? Because this war is not about occupation, but about Israel's very existence. The so-called cycle will continue until the arrow is abandoned and the Palestinians accept a compromise--or until the arrow finds its mark and Israel dies.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/printout/0,8816,1209965,00.html

So now you are saying that you support the firing of Qassam rockets into Isreali civilian areas ?

If you believe that Hamas has a right to abduct a soldier from within Israel, then the Isrealis have every right to react to that provocation.

I ask both the party to go for dialogue.
I just wanted to show you who are provocateur.

. [/B]Why? The so-called cycle will continue until the arrow is abandoned and the Palestinians accept a compromise--or until the arrow finds its mark and Israel dies.



Last fifty years , are they not doing the same thing?
Force can’t bring peace.

Jerusalem: An Israeli Cabinet minister on Friday said it is possible that Israel might free some Palestinian prisoners if militants release a captured soldier and end attacks.

http://www.gulfnews.com/region/Middle_East/10052166.html

Better to response to their goodwill gesture if it is at all.

Rubbish. You do not negotiate with kidnappers.

Read this article as your eye opener.

Israel is intent on not giving Hamas a victory

http://archive.gulfnews.com/opinion/columns/region/10051955.html

07/06/2006 09:54 PM | By Marwan Al Kabalan, Special to Gulf News



For many observers, particularly in the western world, the kidnapping of an Israeli solider will not help alleviate the four decades of suffering of occupied Palestinians. On the contrary, it will make the life of hundreds of thousands of besieged Palestinian families more difficult.

Israel exploited the case of the kidnapped solider to destroy the already poor infrastructure in the Gaza Strip. The main power station was put out of service for at least six months, key bridges have been turned into rubble, Gaza has been isolated from the rest of the world and water and food supplies are allowed only in small quantities.

This argument is true and valid. Yet, it is also true that the life of Palestinians has never been easy before the kidnapping of the Israeli solider.

Even when Hamas was moving closer towards accepting the conditions of the quartet (the UN, the EU, Russia and the US), Israel had never stopped killing Palestinian activists based on their intentions to attack Israel.

Beside, Israeli officials seem to have forgotten that Hamas owes its electoral victory to their awkward policies. Fifteen years of painful negotiations since the Madrid peace conference in 1991 have yielded in absolutely nothing. Israel made partial withdrawals from parts of the West Bank in the 1990s to be re-occupied in April 2002.

Promises about freeing thousands of Palestinian prisoners some of them have spent decades in Israeli jails have never materialised. For most Palestinians, begging and pleading were no longer an option. The Israeli withdrawal from Gaza last year was a case in point. Palestinians have turned Gaza from an asset into a liability for the Israeli occupation.

Hezbollah has also provided an example to follow for Palestinians and other dispossessed people around the world. It has humiliated the invincible Israeli army and embarrassed the Arab world, which for half a century failed in defending Arab lands and Arab dignity. For the first time in the region's history, Israel was forced to withdraw from an Arab land without a schedule, without negotiations and above all without humiliating provisions.

Successful operation

Furthermore, in 2001 and in a successful intelligence operation, Hezbollah kidnapped a former Israeli officer. After two years of tough negotiations, sponsored by Germany, Israel and Hezbollah reached an agreement. Hundreds of Lebanese and Arab prisoners were freed from Israeli jails.

The prisoners exchange agreement was hailed in the Arab world as a great victory for the Islamic resistance. It undoubtedly was. Hamas must have understood the lesson well and after being squeezed to the crash point it was spared no option but to adopt Hezbollah's strategy and emulate its tactics.

Since it came to power, Israel has been trying to undermine Hamas's government and punish the very people who elected it. Total isolation, daily bombardment, cutting off aid and stamping the new Palestinian government with terrorism were among the policies Israel adopted to oust Hamas.

Fearing massive Israeli retaliation along with huge domestic challenges, Hamas decided not to respond. When Hamas's response came, it sounded like a slap on the face for the Israeli military.

Yet, the kidnapping of the Israeli solider came at the wrong time for Hamas. Israel was waiting for an opportunity to destroy the new Palestinian government, prove its helplessness and tarnish its image. Israel grabbed this opportunity and exploited it to a maximum end.

For Israel, the case does look very much like a solider that it seeks to free. Israel is implementing a plan that has been put months ago to destroy Hamas at the most suitable occasion. That occasion has come and Israel does not seem in the mood to let it go.

In addition, Israel is wary that if Hamas succeeds in getting anything in exchange for the solider, that would set a precedent and change the rules of the game between the two sides. Hamas's accomplishment will also be hailed as a victory in Palestine and the rest of the Arab world.

Israel is intent on not giving Hamas such a victory and seems willing to use all the power it has to prevent that. Hamas must hence be careful in handling this issue so that the cost does not outweigh the benefit.

Dr Marwan Al Kabalan is a lecturer in media and international relations, Faculty of Political Science and Media, Damascus University, Syria.

“Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas on Friday called on the international community to intervene to stop Israel's "inhumane invasion" of the Gaza Strip.”

Useless, meaningless cry.

Why should Israel not attack? Hamas is the enemy......

Read their charter.......it says clearly, they will destroy the state of Israel.

So what do you expect them to do?

sayid fatak

Israeli Public Security Minister Avi Dichter said on Friday the Jewish state is prepared to release Palestinian prisoners to free its soldier abducted by militants 12 days ago.
http://www.gulfnews.com/region/Middle_East/10052203.html
Unfortunately Palestinian people don’t trust Zion’s commitment.
Palestinian is to start from some point and wish both the party would show their utmost patience.

If you say Palestinian nation is enemy, I get some meaning.
You the people talk about democracy.
They are the elected Government of Palestinian people.
There is no discrepancy on election , it was free and fair.
You are behind the Hamas to make it non functional from the first day it got elected.
You look for a puppet like Afghanistan and Iraq.
Sad , meaning of democracy is something else to you.

So it appears the Palestian people have voted into a government that doesn't want to honor past agreements//////
That doesn't recognize the state of israel as a member of nations.

In fact the Palestians have voted for the destruction of Israel.......as Hamas has stated quite openly........

Once again, what do you expect the Israelis to do?

They will fight to the death of the last man........all the good will towards the palestians will disappear...all the aid and support will be gone.....they will be left with Hamas......fighting a hopeless war.....with no compromise.

So be it.......

sayid fatak

That doesn't recognize the state of israel as a member of nations.

sayid fatak

Are Palestian only do not recognize Israel?

In fact the Palestians have voted for the destruction of Israel.......as Hamas has stated quite openly........

sayid fatak

Hamas had political agenda, they had election manifesto.
Palestinians were well aware of Hams agenda and manifesto.
Did they hide anything?

Once again, what do you expect the Israelis to do?
sayid fatak

Violence will bring more violence.
Both the party should find out solution peacefully.
Israel is reality , every one to understand this simple truth.
Israel to understand Palestinian sentiment and emotion.
They will have to build up confidence among Palestinian.
Only sincere peaceful co existence will solve the problem.
Through might , it won’t.
They tried last sixty years.

i say crush the state of Israel and let the Jews live under a greater nation of Palestine. i doubt they would go through the indignity they put the Palestinians to.

Mr.Fatak,
Help to open the window.
Let the morning sunshine remove the darkness.

Indeed, Shamsery, the non-Jews occupying the Holy G-d-given Land of Israel, as testified in the Torah/Hebrew Scripture are those who have invaded and provoked. Its about time they ended their illegal occupation and left, for their own good.

Mr. Monotheism, Click on the link, please.

http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showthread.php?p=724936#post724936