View Full Version : Believing in Jinn
Jin were mentioned in the Torah and the bible, so those who believe in these two books believe in their existence too ;)
Allow me Braiki to start this interesting thread with above quote.
Does Christians & Jews believe in the existance of jinn? and why?
sheik-al-Tort
08-05-06, 11:09 PM
No Jinn in the bible
No Jinn in the bible
maybe it been called something else :think:
do you believe in the hidden world ?
No Jinn in the bible
Prophet Solomon pbuh used to have army which includes jinn as well:
And there were gathered before Sulaimân (Solomon) his hosts of jinn and men, and birds, and they all were set in battle order (marching forwards).
Braiki, can you bring the verses you mentioned above from Torah and Bible?
There's a quote of Jesus saying considering exorcism:
"they will get rid of Jin (as in take away the jin from human body) using my name"
17
These signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will drive out demons, they will speak new languages
Mark 16. 17
Demons is Jinn in arabic :)
The quote above is from the bible, the new testiment
I'd like to add that exorcism is practiced by many Priests and such, I watched a movie called "exorcism of emily rose" and its based on a true story which happened in America, and that women was possesed by Jin (demons) and the priest tries to drive them out of her body
i've seen the exorcism on t.v practiced by the priests on some women who believe demons (jinn) live inside her
they put the bible over her head and read some bible verses or say other things
simillar things are practiced by muslims but we read Quraan :) and demons are called jinn
both of them are the same
exactly, the word of God has big effect in driving them out
Thanks for the evidence Braiki, but as usual Christian members will deny such facts.
Matthew 12:22: "Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb..."
IceTea, what do you think of the following verse from the Glorious Quran:
"Therefore, woe to those who distort the scripture with their own hands, then say, "This is what GOD has revealed," seeking a cheap material gain. Woe to them for such distortion, and woe to them for their illicit gains." (Quran 2:79)
I created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship Me
[Qur'an 51:56]
here is some information about them......
Invitation to Islam, Issue 4, January 1998
Throughout history man has always had a deep attraction for the supernatural and the unseen. The existence of a world parallel to our own has always fascinated people. This world is commonly referred to as the spirit world, and almost every set of people have some concept of one. With some people, these spirits are no more then the souls of dead people- or ghosts. With others, spirits are either the forces of good or the forces of evil - both battling against one another to gain influence over humanity. However, both of these explanations are more in tune with folk tales and fantasy. The true explanation of such a world comes from Islam. Like every other way, Islam also claims to explain this realm of the unseen. It is from this realm that Islam explains to us about the world of the Jinn. The Islamic explanation of the Jinn provides us with so many answers to modem day mysteries. Without the knowledge of this world, the Muslims would become like the non-Muslims and be running around looking for any old answer to come their way. So, who or what are the Jinn?
Existence
The Jinn are beings created with free will, living on earth in a world parallel to mankind. The Arabic word Jinn is from the verb 'Janna' which means to hide or conceal. Thus, they are physically invisible from man as their description suggests. This invisibility is one of the reasons why some people have denied their existence. However, (as will be seen) the affect which the world of the Jinn has upon our world, is enough to refute this modern denial of one of Allah's creation. The origins of the Jinn can be traced from the Qur'an and the Sunnah. Allah says:
"Indeed We created man from dried clay of black smooth mud. And We created the Jinn before that from the smokeless flame of fire"
(Surah Al-Hijr 15:26-27)
Thus the Jinn were created before man. As for their physical origin, then the Prophet (saws) has confirmed the above verse when he said: "The Angels were created from light and the Jinn from smokeless fire" [1]. It is this description of the Jinn which tells us so much about them. Because they were created from fire, their nature has generally been fiery and thus their relationship with man has been built upon this. Like humans, they too are required to worship Allah and follow Islam. Their purpose in life is exactly the same as ours, as Allah says:
"I did not create the Jinn and mankind except to worship Me"
(Surah Ad-Dhariyat 51:56)
Jinns can thus be Muslims or non-Muslims. However, due to their fiery nature the majority of them are non-Muslims. All these non-Muslim Jinns form a part of the army of the most famous Jinn, Iblis- the Shaytan[2]. Consequently, these disbelieving Jinns are also called Shaytans (devils). As for the Jinns who become Muslims, then the first of them did so in the time of the Prophet (saws) when a group of them were amazed by the recitation of the Qur'an. Allah orders the Prophet to tell the people of this event:
"Say (O' Muhammed): It has been revealed to me that a group of Jinn listened and said; 'Indeed we have heard a marvellous Qur'an. It guides unto righteousness so we have believed in it, and we will never make partners with our lord'"
(Surah Al-Jinn 72:1-2)
In many aspects of their world, the Jinn are very similar to us. They eat and drink, they marry, have children and they die. The life span however, is far greater then ours. Like us, they will also be subject to a Final Reckoning by Allah the Most High. They will be present with mankind on the Day of Judgement and will either go to Paradise or Hell.
Abilities
That which clearly distinguishes the Jinn from mankind, are their powers and abilities. Allah has given them these powers as a test for them. If they oppress others with them, then they will be held accountable. By knowing of their powers, we can often make sense of much of the mysteries which go on around us. One of the powers of the Jinn, is that they are able to take on any physical form they like. Thus, they can appear as humans, animals trees and anything else. Over the last few years the interest in the subject of aliens and UFO's has become heightened. Programmes such as the X-files and the Outer limits have increased the popularity of the theory that aliens exist. Thousands of people have sighted strange looking creatures all over the world. These sightings however, have still not proven substantially that aliens exist. Rather - and it seems more plausible all the sightings of such creatures were just Jinns parading in different forms. So the next time you see something that looks like E.T, its most probably just a wicked Jinn trying to scare and confuse you!
The ability to possess and take over the minds and bodies of other creatures is also a power which the Jinn have utilised greatly over the centuries. This however, is something which has been prohibited to them as it is a great oppression to possess another being. Human possession is something which has always brought about great attention. But the true knowledge of this subject is rare amongst the people. Over the last 3 decades the subject of possession has become very commercialised. During the 70's films such as The Exorcist and Rosemary's Baby were used to educate people about possession. However, because such institutions (the film industry) were heavily influenced by Christianity, knowledge of the subject was non-existent. Rather then educate people about Jinn possession, films such as The Exorcist just tended to scare the living daylights out of us![3] Only through Islam can we understand such a phenomena. We know as Muslims, that Jinns possess people for many reasons. Sometimes it is because the Jinn or its family has been hurt accidentally. It could be because the Jinn has fallen in love with the person. However, most of the time possession occurs because the Jinn is simply malicious and wicked. For this reason we have been told by the Prophet (saws) not to loiter in those places where the Jinns reside, e.g. graveyards, ruins, deserts, market places etc. We have also been commanded to recite the Qur'an frequently in our houses as the Prophet (saws) said: "Indeed, the shaytan flees from the house in which Surah Al-Baqarah (the 2nd chapter of the Qur'an) is recited" [4].
If a person does become possessed, then the name of Allah has to be used in expelling the Jinn. If we look at the practice of the Prophet and his companions, we find many duas (supplications) to exorcise the Jinn. All these duas invoke Allah to help the possessed person. How contrary this is to many modern-day exorcists. Many exorcists, Muslim and non-Muslim, often invoke the names of others besides Allah to exorcise the Jinn[5]. When the Jinn does leave, these people believe that their way was successful. However, this is a ploy of the Jinn, as it knows that if it obeys the exorcist, then it has succeeded in making him worship others besides Allah i.e. commit shirk. The Jinn often returns when the exorcist leaves, as it knows that nothing except the words of Allah can stop it from oppressing others.
It is not only humans which are possessed, but also animals, trees and other objects. By doing this, the evil Jinn hope to make people worship others besides Allah. The possession of idols is one way to do this. Not so long ago the world-wide phenomenon of Hindu idols drinking milk, shocked the world. From Bombay to London, Delhi to California, countless idols were lapping up milk. Ganesh[6] the elephant god, Hanuman the monkey god and even Shiva lingam, the male private organ(!), all seemed to guzzle down the milk as if there was no tomorrow! Unfortunately people were taken in by this (including Muslims) and many flocked to feed (?) the Hindu gods. Anyone who knows about Jinn possession, will undoubtedly know that this is a classic attempt to make people commit shirk. And it worked, as many people started to worship these lifeless pieces of wood and marble. Anyone with half a brain would say to themselves, 'why on earth does a god need to be fed?!! Surely if Ganesh, Hanuman or Shiva were divine then they wouldn't need feeding?' However, such common sense seemed to be lacking as the Jinns played havoc with these gullible people.
The Occult
Through their powers of flying and invisibility, the Jinn are the chief component in occult activities. Voodoo, Black magic, Poltergeists, Witchcraft and Mediums can all be explained through the world of the Jinn. Likewise, so can the illusions and feats of magicians. Because the Jinn can traverse huge distances over a matter of seconds, their value to magicians is great. In return for helping them in their magic, the Jinns often ask for the magicians to sell their souls to them and even to Iblis. Thus the magicians take the Jinn and Iblis as lords besides Allah. In our day, some of the feats performed by magicians and entertainers are without doubt from the assistance of the Jinn. Making the Statue of Liberty disappear, flying across the Grand Canyon and retrieving a ship from the Bermuda Triangle[7], have all been done by the Jewish magician David Copperfield. There is NO way that a man could do such things without the assistance of the Jinn. It would not be surprising therefore, if David Copperfield had sold his soul to Iblis himself. Because of their involvement with the Jinn, and its result in shirk, the Prophet (saws) said: "The prescribed punishment for the magician is that he be executed by the sword" [8]. Some may argue that this is barbaric, but if, the likes of David Copperfield truly had powers, then they could just put their heads back on again!!
One of the most frequent activities associated with the Jinn, is fortune telling. Before the advent of the Prophet (saws) fortune-tellers and soothsayers were wide spread. These people would use their associates from the Jinn to find out about the future. The Jinns would go to the lowest heaven and listen to the Angels conversing amongst themselves about events of the Future which they heard from Allah. The Jinns would then inform the fortune-tellers. This is why before the time of the Prophet (saws) many fortune-tellers were very accurate in their predictions. However, upon the Prophet's arrival the heavens were guarded intensely by the Angels, and any Jinn who tried to listen was attacked by meteors (shooting stars):
"And We have guarded it (the heavens) from every accursed devil, except one who is able to snatch a hearing and he is pursued by a brightly burning flame"
(Surah Al-Hijr 15:18)
The Prophet (saws) also said: "They (the Jinn) would pass the information back down until it reaches the lips of a magician or forrtune-teller Sometimes a meteor would overtake them before they could pass it on. If they passed it on before being struck, they would add to it a hundred lies" [9]. Thus, it is clear from this as to how fortune-tellers get predictions of the future right. It is also evident as to why they get so many wrong. Men like Nostradamus[10] are an example, as some of his predictions of the future were correct whilst many were completely wrong. Unfortunately, the amount of fortune telling which occurs amongst the Muslims is also increasing. By visiting Muslim lands such as Morocco, one is able to see as to how much inter Jinn-fortune-teller activity there really is. If you look up at the sky on a clear night in Morocco, you will see the heavens ablaze with shooting stars! A clear display of the devils being chased away from the heavens.
Fortune-tellers also operate through the Qareen. The Qareen is the Jinn companion which is assigned to every human being. It is this Jinn which whispers to our base desires and constantly tries to divert us from righteousness. The Prophet (saws) said: "Everyone of you has been assigned a companion from the Jinn. The companions asked: Even you O' Messenger of Allah? And the Prophet replied: Even me, except that Allah has helped me against him and he has submitted. Now he only tells me to do good" [11]. Because the Qareen is with a person all his life, it knows all that has happened to the person from the cradle to the grave. By making contact with the Qareen, the fortune-teller is thus able to make out that it is he who knows about the person. He looks in his crystal ball or the palm of a person and proceeds to amaze him with knowledge which no one else knows[12]. The severity of going to a fortune-teller is such that the Prophet (saws) said: "The prayer of one who approaches a fortune-teller and asks him about anything, will not be accepted for forty days or nights" [13] and: "Whosoever approaches a fortune-teller and believes in what he says, has disbelieved in what was revealed to Muhammed" [14]
The effects of the Jinn are not just limited to fortune-tellers. Other activities such as oujia boards and seances, which are used to contact the dead, are manipulated by the Jinn. 'Are you there Charlie? Speak to us Charlie!!' are the sort of words spoken by anxious relatives (names are obviously different!) seeking to make contact with their loved ones. And it is when the Jinn starts to talk and communicate as 'Charlie', that the people are truly fooled[15].
One of the biggest manipulations of the Jinn is through visions. Through these visions the Jinns are more likely to lead people away from the worship of Allah then any other way. When a person sees a vision in front of his eyes it is something which is very hard to explain away. Only by having knowledge of the world of the Jinn and conviction in Allah, can a person fight such a trial. The countless numbers of visions of Jesus Christ and the Virgin Mary over the centuries has been a popular choice for the devils. It almost seems as if leading Christians astray is the most easiest trick for the Jinns! Not only are Christians fooled by these visions, but often the Jinns possess and begin to talk from their voices. To the Christians this is known as the tongues of the Angels and thus a proof for their faith. However, the amount of unintelligible nonsense and rubbish which is heard is a clear proof that this is in fact the tongues of the devils! For other people, visions of their parents or relatives are commonplace. By taking on the form of peoples parents, the Jinns can convince people that the souls of dead people still mix with the people of the earth. This is why so many people believe in ghosts.
The onslaught of satanic visions has also hit the Muslims. Many Muslims claim to have seen visions of the Prophet Muhammed (saws) and even Allah! By doing this, Shaytan is able to lead astray the weak Muslims. Through such visions, Muslims are often told that the commands of Islam are not applicable to them. The Jinns tell them that Prayer, Fasting, Hajj etc. are not obligatory for them. It is a great deception and unfortunately one which has been very effective. The extent of satanic visions still continues to this day. The recent death of Diana Princess of Wales sparked off great love and adoration for this woman. In fact the grief of the British people was such, that it was as if Diana was something divine. No sooner had the mourning of Diana reached its peak, that visions of her were already being seen at Hampton Court Palace! If these visions did occur, the desire of Iblis and his army of Jinn to capitalise on this event, was evident. Such visions are clear attempts by Iblis to lead mankind away from the path of Allah [16].
The world of the Jinn is one which is both sinister and intriguing. By knowing of this world we can explain many of the mysteries and issues which bother us. By doing this we can avoid the extremes which the people have gone to; nothing being more extreme then worshipping others besides Allah. By learning the Tawheed of Allah, we defend ourselves from these hidden allies of Iblis:
"Indeed he (Iblis) and his tribe watch you from a position where you cannot see them"
(Surah Al-A'raf 7:27)
Maybe there is a Jinn sitting in the corner of your room right now, or even one behind you. If so, then how will you deal with this creation of Allah? Learn Islam properly and you will be able to deal with all of Allah's creation - and not just the Jinn. By becoming true Muslims and followers of Islam, the fear of Iblis, Jinns and anything else will leave us - nothing will touch the Believer unless Allah wills.
Footnotes
1 Reported by Muslim - Eng. Trans. Vol. 4, p.1540, No.7134
2 It must be remembered that Iblis is a Jinn and not an Angel. The concept of the Devil being a fallen Angel is from Christianity and not Islam.
3 In fact when The Exorcist was first shown on cinema, it was so scary that many people fainted and one even died!
4 Authentic - Reported by Tirmidhee
5 Whilst Christians invoke the name of Jesus, many Muslims invoke the name of pious Muslim saints! The rituals which are conducted by many Muslims are more akin to voodoo then the exorcism practised by the Prophet and his companions!!
6 Ganesh, the elephant headed deity, seemed to be the biggest drinker! In fact it didn't just stop at milk. At the time of these occurrences, a woman in India decided to see if Ganesh would drink anything else - so she offered him whiskey!! And Lo and behold Ganesh drank the Whiskey!!! Suffice to say, the woman was kicked out of India.
7 The ship which was recovered was more then 50 years old. It subsequently caught alight and was conveniently destroyed.
8 Authentic - Reported by Tirmidhee
9 Reported by Bukhari - Eng. Trans. Vol.7, p.439, No.657
10 Michel de Nostradamus was a famous French soothsayer of the 16th century.
11 Reported by Muslim - Eng. Trans. Vol.4, p.1472, No.6757
12 The classic example of how fortune tellers can be wrong is the case of Diana, Princess of Wales and Dodi Fayed. Both went to see a fortune teller who told Diana that she would live a long and happy life. A few weeks later, on August 31st 1997, Diana and Dodi Fayed were dead. After this the fortune tellers flew for cover, as their evil art showed its decadence.
13 Reported by Muslim - Eng. Trans. Vol.4, p.1211, No.5540
14 Authentic - Reported by Ahmed
15 Ouija boards are so misleading, that people have even managed to get in touch with the spirit of Jack the Ripper!!
16 An informative book on the world of the Jinn is Ibn Taymeeyah's Essay on the Jinn translated by Abu Ameenah Bilal Phillips.
Source (http://thetruereligion.org/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=55)
i couldn't read the whole thing but i read some intersting point!
some r really funny like that Ganesh dude :p
thanks for sharing, Marvel!
X-press
09-05-06, 01:03 PM
There is a difference between Jinns and Devil. Not all Jinns are evil or bad and based on the Islamic teachings, some are good Muslims.
Putting all this on the side, when I was a Christian, I never recall the Christian community I lived in mentioning about the existence of Jinns. Many do believe in ghosts or bad spirits, but it is only when I entered Islam that I heard about the creation of good Muslim Jinns and their similar parallel life to ours.
I have the same perception; that not all Jinns are evil. Some are good Jinns and live in parallel world similar to us. However all Shayaten (Leader being Satan) are evil. That is the difference between Jinn and Shayaten(demons) as I'm aware.
Perhaps other religions use another terminologies to express the same thing, in this case Jinns. Is it possible that good Jinns may be thought to be 'good angels'? or is that a different thing?
I hate talking about Jinn. They scare me :os
Exorcism in Judaism
In kabbalah and European Jewish folklore, a person may be possessed by a malicious spirit called a dybbuk — which is believed to be the dislocated soul of a dead person, escaped from Gehenna (a Hebrew term very loosely translated as "hell", literally the valley outside Jeruselem where the city's garbage and dead bodies were burned. The word later came to mean "the valley of dead"). According to those beliefs, a soul which has not been able to fulfill its function in its lifetime is given another opportunity to do so in the form of a dybbuk.
The dybbuk must be exorcised by a prescribed religious rite.
------------------------
Exorcism in Christianity
According to the Jewish Encyclopedia article on Jesus: he was "devoted especially to "casting out demons," i.e., according to the folkmedicine of the time, healing nervous and mental diseases. It would appear that Jesus shared in the current belief of the Jews in the noumenal existence of demons or evil spirits; and most of his miraculous cures consisted in casting them out, which he did with "the finger of God" (Luke 11:20), or with "the Spirit of God" (Matt 12:28). It would seem also that he regarded diseases like fever to be due to the existence of demons (Luke 4:39). One of the chief functions transmitted to his disciples was the "power over unclean spirits, to cast them out" (Matt 10:1), and his superiority to his followers was shown by his casting out demons which they had failed to expel (Mark 9:14-29) ... he drove out the unclean spirits, "rebuking" them (Matt 17:18; Luke 4:35,39,41,9:42; comp. "ga'ar" in Zech. iii. 2; Isa. 1. 2; Ps. lxviii. 31 [A. V. 30]) with some magic "word" (Matt 8:8,16; comp. "milla," Shab. 81b; Eccl. R. i. 8), even as he "rebuked" the wind and told the sea to stand still (Mark 4:39 and parallels). At times he cured the sufferers by the mere touch of his hand (Mark 1:25; Matt 8:8,9:18-25), or by powers emanating from him through the fringes of his garment (Matt 9:20,14:36), or by the use of spittle put upon the affected organ, accompanying the operation with a whisper (Mark 7:33,8:23; John 9:1-11; comp. Sanh. 101a; Yer. Shab.xiv. 14d: Loḥesh and Roḳ). By the same exorcismal [emphasis added] power he drove a whole legion of evil spirits, 2,000 in number, out of a maniac living in a cemetery (Josephus, "B. J." vii. 6, § 3; Sanh. 65b) and made them enter a herd of swine to be drowned in the adjacent lake (Luke 8:26-39 and parallels; comp. Ta'an. 21b; Ḳid. 49b; B. Ḳ. vii. 7)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exorcism
Does Christians & Jews believe in the existance of jinn? and why?
Judaism acknowledges the existance of demons, but its more like demons of their own creation i.e false gods. Sorry but I don't know much about it.
CupCake
09-05-06, 01:22 PM
This is so fascinating! And scary!
So how would we know when something or someone has been possessed by a Jinn?
What else can we do including reciting Surah Baqarah to eliminate all the bad duas and spirits from our homes?
-Alysa-
09-05-06, 02:11 PM
^^ The jinn don’t possess human being, that’s something people mistakably believe in. I don’t know the exact verse from the Quraan, but it states clearly that Jinn and the Devil don’t possess Man but just touches him.
^^ Then how can we explain the 'possessed' state of some humans? It really does appear that something is inside them, something out of this materialistic world. Or are you saying that these people are just mentally ill or need psychological help?
^^ The jinn don’t possess human being, that’s something people mistakably believe in. I don’t know the exact verse from the Quraan, but it states clearly that Jinn and the Devil don’t possess Man but just touches him.
i don't agree...they possess them even the human who've been possessed act weird and say many things that may cause trouble between your family and there is many ways that you can figure out the possess ppl....
sheik-al-Tort
09-05-06, 02:20 PM
The term Jinn is not to be found anywhere in the New Testament.
you will however find demons and devils. Maybe they are the same thing just a different name.
But then not all Jinns are demons and evil. There are some good Jinns as well :think:
But then not all Jinns are demons and evil. There are some good Jinns as well :think:
yup the worest thing is alshiateen they are all the trouble and they are never muslim....Jinn got muslim and non-muslim......
So I guess "Jinns" in specific were not mentioned in the New Testament, even with a different terminology.
-Alysa-
09-05-06, 02:44 PM
^^ Then how can we explain the 'possessed' state of some humans? It really does appear that something is inside them, something out of this materialistic world. Or are you saying that these people are just mentally ill or need psychological help?
i don't agree...they possess them even the human who've been possessed act weird and say many things that may cause trouble between your family and there is many ways that you can figure out the possess ppl....
In the Qura'an it’s stated clearly that the jinn does not possess humans and cannot have contact with them. The only contact there is between the two creatures is with the Wiswas (don’t know how to translate). I'd explain those people who act in the way you described as mentally ill and need professional help. Sometimes those "possessed" as they are called speak different languages that their families say they have never spoken before which is one of the main evidences they carry for the state he/she is in, however this was medically proven that those languages they speak in are firstly not fluent meaning they're broken and often don’t make any sense and 2ndly those bits of sentences or words were heard by the patient at some point of their lives and was stored sub-consciously in their minds.
Anyhow, I am not an expert in those things and what i'm saying is just things I learnt from my Philosophy class that’s why I didn't provide any sources.
If it is indeed correct that Jinn can never posses human beings, then I will lead a fear-free life from now on :rolleyes:. One of my aunts shares your views. She says the possessed are mentally ill.
In the Qura'an it’s stated clearly that the jinn does not possess humans and cannot have contact with them.
can you provide me with the verse plz ?
sophis^catrina
09-05-06, 02:54 PM
you will however find demons and devils. Maybe they are the same thing just a different name.
Yes, they are the same thing. Except we call just the bad jinns,the devils and demons. But they are the same. It's like we call angels mala2ika, but that's because that's the arabic word for it.
-Alysa-
09-05-06, 03:01 PM
I can't coz I don't know which Sura or which Aya its in. But its from the Sura where it says that 3alem el `3ayb and 3alem el shahada don't come together.. Again I don't know how to translate that sorry.
Yes, they are the same thing. Except we call just the bad jinns,the devils and demons. But they are the same. It's like we call angels mala2ika, but that's because that's the Arabic word for it.
So what are good Jinns called in English or more like the Christianity religion? :lift:
let's ask shiek :)
sheik, do christians believe that there are good demons?or all of them are bad?
^^ Demons can't be good. They portray evil and only evil :os
btw: Jinn in Arabic is djinn in English.
but what i understood jinn=demons
there are good jinn and there are bad ones
so..i don't know if this is the same with demons..
sophis^catrina
09-05-06, 03:47 PM
So what are good Jinns called in English or more like the Christianity religion? :lift:
They don't have good djinn. They just have shayateen (devils, who are bad jinn) in Christianity, unless I am wrong.
What I understood is that bad djinns can be referred to as demons, but what are the good djinns referred to then?
They don't have good djinn. They just have shayateen (devils, who are bad jinn) in Christianity, unless I am wrong.
Can it be that they refer to the good djinn as angels?
btw: Jinn in Arabic is djinn in English.
oh new info
so is the term djinn mentioned in the bible? and is it refered to the good ones?
sophis^catrina
09-05-06, 03:50 PM
What I understood is that bad djinns can be referred to as demons, but what are the good djinns referred to then?
They don't have good jinn. Or maybe good spirits?
sophis^catrina
09-05-06, 03:51 PM
oh new info
so is the term djinn mentioned in the bible? and is it refered to the good ones?
No. Djinn is what the media and the people who study spirits call them, not the Bible.
aha i see
but the question remains..r there good and bad ones? i mean for the christians
sophis^catrina
09-05-06, 03:54 PM
Can it be that they refer to the good djinn as angels?
No. Angels are angels. But that is interesting. Perhaps, that could be true, after all they call 'Satan' the fallen angel.
They don't have good jinn. Or maybe good spirits?
I'm only trying to find if other monotheist religion use a different terminology to express a good djinn. It's very much likely that they might refer to them as good spirits, as in as supernatural creature who does good.
Perhaps?
I can't coz I don't know which Sura or which Aya its in. But its from the Sura where it says that 3alem el `3ayb and 3alem el shahada don't come together.. Again I don't know how to translate that sorry.
i was like you thinking that they can't get into human body but..............i've changed my mind about it.......
i don't think it have been menthioned that they can't enter...maybe you've understanded the verse in the wrong way :think:
Arabian Prince
09-05-06, 04:19 PM
The jinn don’t possess human being, that’s something people mistakably believe in. I don’t know the exact verse from the Quraan, but it states clearly that Jinn and the Devil don’t possess Man but just touches him.
My most favourite post in this thread!
Why? Well basically because Dam3eti and I share the same point of view, and I always bring that up when getting into arguments about the 'other realm'.
With all due respect to all the members who have participated in this thread, some members seem to be idiotically going around in circles and asking the same questions repetitively. It's not so hard to look up some simple answers on the world wide web you know. Yes I am well aware that this is a forum blah blah, but please spare us having to go through several pointless posts!! :bored:
Now if I'm not mistaken the thread was initiated to discuss the existence of 'Jinn' (an Arabic term <=--- for the oblivious!) in Christianity and Judaism. So far most of the replies have been about anything but that!
Arabian Prince
09-05-06, 04:22 PM
Can it be that they refer to the good djinn as angels?
No. Angels are angels. But that is interesting. Perhaps, that could be true, after all they call 'Satan' the fallen angel.
Since Islam, Christianity and Judaism have so much in common that could be right according to the following:
"And when We said to the angels:'Prostrate yourselves unto Adam.' So they prostrated themselves except Iblis (The Devil). He was one of the jinn..." Surat Al-Kahf, 18:50
Mr Arabian Prince
wudjab and sheik who are christians claimed they do not have jinn mentioned in their holy book
that's why we're discussing the similarity between jinn and demons
if you find some posts pointless you can simply avoid reading them or in another words, "ignore"
thank you
sheik-al-Tort
09-05-06, 05:15 PM
Anyone come across any leprichauns lately?
and the relevance of that is? :think:
and the relevance of that is? :think:
check this link (http://www.ancientworlds.net/aw/Article/397645) out
Pineapple Thief
09-05-06, 05:26 PM
Semantics, people. Semantics.
Thank you for the link Marvel :)
sheik-al-Tort
09-05-06, 05:38 PM
and the relevance of that is? :think:
it seems there are different classes of 'djinns' some good as well as bad.
I suspect that djinns were pre-Mohammed in origin, much like the leprichauns of the Celts, long before Christianity.
It would appear that these names were in existince long before monotheistic religions of any sort. I suspect that they were therefore woven into scriptures as a means of winning pagans over.
Easter for instance is named after the goddess Ester. Yet we use the name in Christianity to mark the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ.
sophis^catrina
09-05-06, 05:41 PM
it seems there are different classes of 'djinns' some good as well as bad.
I suspect that djinns were pre-Mohammed in origin, much like the leprichauns of the Celts, long before Christianity.
It would appear that these names were in existince long before monotheistic religions of any sort. I suspect that they were therefore woven into scriptures as a means of winning pagans over.
Easter for instance is named after the goddess Ester. Yet we use the name in Christianity to mark the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ.
Islam, unlike Christianity today, does not have any of the paganistic beliefs woven into it (e.g. holidays). However, people did know abt djinn and demons long before the Prophet :PBUH: came.
sheik-al-Tort
09-05-06, 05:47 PM
I see so they have now been woven into the Quran.
Much the same thing Sophis
-Alysa-
09-05-06, 06:47 PM
i was like you thinking that they can't get into human body but..............i've changed my mind about it.......
i don't think it have been menthioned that they can't enter...maybe you've understanded the verse in the wrong way :think:
I don't think I understood it wrong coz I read the explanation to it as well. I think all of you people understood it wrong. It makes more sense to me anyway that Jinn don't possess humans, if the Quraan clearly tells us that human beiings cannot communicate with the Jinn world (3alem el `3aib, what is unknown) and vise versa then it is clear that Jinn cannot communicate with us let alone come inside us!
Ice Tea, I know you are good in taking out Ayat, if you may, please state the right verses for this, that is if you agree with me
I see so they have now been woven into the Quran.
Much the same thing Sophis
Sheik I found this reply offensive, the Quraan had nothing woven into it, the Quraan today is the same one since it came down on Prophet :PBUH:
It is the Christian bible that has been changed and renewed over time, with the new testimonials etc.
Yes, they are the same thing. Except we call just the bad jinns,the devils and demons. But they are the same. It's like we call angels mala2ika, but that's because that's the arabic word for it.
Thats what I wanted to say
thank you sophi
sheik-al-Tort
09-05-06, 06:51 PM
Dam3eti you are over sensitive. If djinns 'existed' in pagan times and are in the Quran - it follows that Mohammed has woven local beliefs into the Quran.
This is not a slur on islam. I've already said that such an approach is well trodden by Christianity. This doesn't negate the message, merely makes it more accessible for the primitive minds of the time.
I don't think I understood it wrong coz I read the explanation to it as well. I think all of you people understood it wrong. It makes more sense to me anyway that Jinn don't possess humans, if the Quraan clearly tells us that human beiings cannot communicate with the Jinn world (3alem el `3aib, what is unknown) and vise versa then it is clear that Jinn cannot communicate with us let alone come inside us!
you may never know.....:)
-Alysa-
09-05-06, 07:01 PM
Dam3eti you are over sensitive. If djinns 'existed' in pagan times and are in the Quran - it follows that Mohammed has woven local beliefs into the Quran.
It doesn't necessarily follow like that, It just means that the Qura'an mentioned the Jinn because of its existance and because people believed in them and wanted to correct their beliefs if any corrections were in order.
Sheik I found this reply offensive, the Quraan had nothing woven into it, the Quraan today is the same one since it came down on Prophet :PBUH:
It is the Christian bible that has been changed and renewed over time, with the new testimonials etc.
I think Sheikh was misunderstood in this context. True nothing was altered in the Quran and it is the same book it was when it was bestowed upon Mohamed :PBUH: but if djinn were believed to exist at Pagan times, then the Quran just confirmed their existence later on. It's not like it was 'woven' into the holy book, merely that their beliefs were confirmed by Allah swt and corrected.
Again, guys, I think that Jinns and devils are tottaly different, yet they seem that they come from the same worlds 'Aalam al ghaib (the world of the unknowns)
However, A devil cant touch human being nor do anything to them, but they do wasawis (something like speaking to the mind to do somethin evil)...
If we come to think of it, The devils dont want us to do something good, why wouldn't they just possess us and prevent us from doing what's good ?
The devils are cursed by God and will go to hell along with Lucifer
as for Jinn, they were created just like human being, and for the same purpose, to worship God alone, and some of them will go to heaven, some of them will go to hell, now those Jinns can possess human beings, yet they can be driven out using the bible,the torah or the quraan, Because they can't disobey the words of God since they don't have the power to
It's complicated, I'd not be bothered about them anyways, since they don't possess me or anyone who's close to me :os
Just to explain the last point furthur..
Jinns can't disobey the words of God, but they get to choose to follow them or not...
Can it be that they refer to the good djinn as angels?
No they are not called angels.
Jinn is general name for them like humans, There are different types of jnn some are called '3afreet' some called 'shya6een' and some are called '3umaar' who live with humans in their houses. There are muslim and kaffir jinns.
Err, I wasn't talking in relevance to Islam Ice Tea. I was trying to see whether Christianity might be referring to good jinns as angels in their holy books. That's all.
I don't think I understood it wrong coz I read the explanation to it as well. I think all of you people understood it wrong. It makes more sense to me anyway that Jinn don't possess humans, if the Quraan clearly tells us that human beiings cannot communicate with the Jinn world (3alem el `3aib, what is unknown) and vise versa then it is clear that Jinn cannot communicate with us let alone come inside us!
Ice Tea, I know you are good in taking out Ayat, if you may, please state the right verses for this, that is if you agree with me
I believe that humans can communicate with jinn because there are people who can treat people who are possesed by jinn by reading some Quran verses. This doesn't mean the jinni can enter the human being body physically it can be only the energy the jinn has which affacts the human being. If we also read the story of prophet Solomon pbuh we see that he communicated with them:
He said: "O chiefs! Which of you can bring me her throne before they come to me surrendering themselves in obedience?"
An Ifrît (strong one) from the jinn said: "I will bring it to you before you rise from your place (council). And verily, I am indeed strong, and trustworthy for such work."
And also these verse mentioning the word 'ma'as'
الَّذِينَ يَأْكُلُونَ الرِّبَا لَا يَقُومُونَ إِلَّا كَمَا يَقُومُ الَّذِي يَتَخَبَّطُهُ الشَّيْطَانُ مِنَ الْمَسِّ ذَلِكَ بِأَنَّهُمْ قَالُوا إِنَّمَا الْبَيْعُ مِثْلُ الرِّبَا وَأَحَلَّ اللَّهُ الْبَيْعَ وَ
حَرَّمَ الرِّبَا فَمَنْ جَاءَهُ مَوْعِظَةٌ مِنْ رَبِّهِ فَانْتَهَى فَلَهُ مَا سَلَفَ وَأَمْرُهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَمَنْ عَادَ فَأُولَئِكَ أَصْحَابُ النَّارِ هُمْ فِيهَا خَالِدُونَ
I once saw a fatwa about this I will try to find it.
Err, I wasn't talking in relevance to Islam Ice Tea. I was trying to see whether Christianity might be referring to good jinns as angels in their holy books. That's all.
Ok, maybe sheik can answer that then.
sophis^catrina
09-05-06, 09:42 PM
Dam3eti you are over sensitive. If djinns 'existed' in pagan times and are in the Quran - it follows that Mohammed has woven local beliefs into the Quran.
Sheikh, animals existed before the Prophet's time, that does not mean that that was paganistic beliefs woven into the Quran, when the Quran speaks of animals, galaxies, etc. Jinn exist and they are of Allah's creation. That is a fact. Like Bacteria, or whatever else is there that the naked eye cannot see. People knew abt it, because they exist. Not some pagan myths.
I once saw a fatwa about this I will try to find it.
maybe this one link (http://www.ibadhiyah.net/fatawa/showthread.php?postid=4517&highlight=%C7%E1%CC%E4#post4517) you mean..
Err, I wasn't talking in relevance to Islam Ice Tea. I was trying to see whether Christianity might be referring to good jinns as angels in their holy books. That's all.
Angels are angels.
sheik-al-Tort
10-05-06, 02:19 AM
Sheikh, animals existed before the Prophet's time, that does not mean that that was paganistic beliefs woven into the Quran, when the Quran speaks of animals, galaxies, etc. Jinn exist and they are of Allah's creation. That is a fact. Like Bacteria, or whatever else is there that the naked eye cannot see. People knew abt it, because they exist. Not some pagan myths.
Ever seen one then?
Thought not. Superstition - just like belief in leprichauns
Pineapple Thief
10-05-06, 02:45 AM
Ever seen one then?
Thought not. Superstition - just like belief in leprichauns
Try 'faith'. I dont believe 'seeing is believing' - two simple analogies. When the sun goes down, it does not cease to exist. I know its there. Second, when ive had some magic mushrooms and see elephants made of nougat, I know they dont REALLY exist...I see them, but they arent really there!
I only believe in Jinn because as a muslim I am required to believe in whatever the Qurans states..otherwise it would have been a difficult pill to swallow had I not been a muslim.
BliNd_MelOn
10-05-06, 04:48 AM
I believe in Djin.. Not because my religion tells me they exist..
But because I've experienced it.. Unfortunetly, I cannot talk about it.
My aunt has her share of experience aswell. What I have is from her side.. Call us "Gifted".
7amdulilah it stopped at that.
sophis^catrina
10-05-06, 05:36 AM
Ever seen one then?
Thought not. Superstition - just like belief in leprichauns
Can you see UV light, InfraRed or time passing by? Thought not, but it still exists.
Dogs are colour blind, they cannot see colour, but it does not mean that that does not exist.
Our eyes have been given limited ability to see, and our ears as well can only hear within a limited frequency.
Arabian Prince
10-05-06, 06:34 AM
if you find some posts pointless you can simply avoid reading them or in another words, "ignore"
I failed once again with this post of yours. :rolleyes:
Highlights of replies I liked:
It's not like it was 'woven' into the holy book, merely that their beliefs were confirmed by Allah swt and corrected.
Try 'faith'. I dont believe 'seeing is believing'
otherwise it would have been a difficult pill to swallow had I not been a muslim.
Can you see UV light, InfraRed or time passing by? Thought not, but it still exists.
Dogs are colour blind, they cannot see colour, but it does not mean that that does not exist.
Our eyes have been given limited ability to see, and our ears as well can only hear within a limited frequency.
Arabian Prince
10-05-06, 06:46 AM
I believe that very little light has been shed on this matter in Islam (or any other religion for that matter), and because we're dealing here with an 'unseen' realm. And to be honest I think that's what all the fascination is about.
Let me just remind you people that when we speak of the Prophet Sulaiman (Solomon) :PBUH:, we aren't referring to any usual person, he is afterall one of God's prophets. Regarding his ability to communicate and order the jinn, I believe that was one of the miracles God has blessed him with.
sheik-al-Tort if you had no objection to the verses that BrAiKi has quoted from your Holy Bible, then how on Earth can you claim that it's all "Superstition - just like belief in leprichauns"?? :think:
Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but since their existence has been mentioned in the Bible and priests around the world conform to that doesn't that mean that their existence is certain and Christians are required to believe in them?
maybe this one link (http://www.ibadhiyah.net/fatawa/showthread.php?postid=4517&highlight=%C7%E1%CC%E4#post4517) you mean..
Yes it's similar to that one but another fatwa.
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