View Full Version : The Flesh of Swine
Dear ES members,
The aim was this thread is to spread awareness between our Muslim and Non-Muslim brothers and sisters regarding the flesh of swine (pork) from a scientific dimension.
I would like to first quote some miraculous verses from the Holy Qur'an:
(He hath only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that on which any other name hath been invoked besides that of Allah. But if one is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits - then is he guiltless. For Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful) (The Cow's Chapter ...verse no: 173)
Say: I find not in the message received by me by inspiration any (meat) forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it, unless it be dead meat, or blood poured forth, or the flesh of swine, for it is an abomination or, what is impious, (meat) on which a name has been invoked, other than Allah's. But (even so), if a person is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits, thy Lord is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful).(The Cattle's Chapter...verse no: 145).)
Now we all have been taught by our great religion that the flesh of swine is forbidden, but I wonder how many of us actually do know the consequences of eating it. I know I did not know most of these terrible consequences before some time.
http://www.renderers.org/links/images%5Cpig.jpg
It's amazing that pig is rich pasture for more than 450 epidemic diseases and it is playing the role of intermediary to transform 57 diseases to man, here are some:
Parasitic Diseases:
1. Trichinilla spiralis: It is the most dangerous parasite to man. It is prevailing widely in countries which eat pork but lacking in countries which prohibit pork consumption e.g. Muslim countries.
2. Taenia solim (Pork tape worm): Both eggs and larvac (cysticenra) are infective. These worms are only found in pork eaters. The worm may cause malnourishment of the host leading to anaemia, diarrhoea. Toxins produced may have deleterious influence on various systems of the body.
3. Round worms: e.g. Ascaris, which may lead to digestive disturbances, appendicitis, obstructive jaundice.
4. Hook worms: e.g. Ancylostomiasis, which may lead to anaemia, edema, heart failure or retarded growth (mentally and physically).
5. Schistosoma Japonicum: Bleeding, anaemia and other syndromes. If ova are settled in the brain or spinal cord, paralysis and death may occur.
6. Paragonimes westermaimi: leading to bleeding of the lungs.(Endenve haemoptysis).
7. Faciolepsis buski: (Digestive disturbance is leading to persistent diarrhoea. Generalized edema.
8. Clonorchis sinensis: Chlonorchiasis - obstructive jaundice, liver enlargement.
9. Metastrongylus apri: Causing bronchitis, abscess of the lungs.
10. Giganthorinchus gigas: An anaemia and digestive disorders.
11. Balantidium coli: causing acute dysentry and general weakness.
Bacterial diseases:
1.Tuber-Bacillis (Tuberculosis).
2.Fusiformis necrofurus: Causing foot-rot which is very difficult to heal.
3.Salmonella cholera suis: causing cholera.
4.Paratyphoid
5.Bruceellosis: Acute, subacute and chronic. It may lead to permanent disabilities.
6. Swine Erysipelas: causing Erysipelas in man.
Viral diseases:
1. Smallpox: Pig was a source of infection to man, but now controlled universally.
2. Japanese-B-encephalitis: It was the cause of death of many persons in an epidemic outbreak in Sri Lanka in the year of 1985. Pig was the only source of infection.
3.Western River Virus encephalitis.
4.Russian River encephalitis.
5.Viral myocarditis.
6.Influenza
7. Foot mouth disease.
8. Gastro-enteritis of the new born babies.
Click Here for More (http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/archive/article.php?lang=E&id=25842)
Furthermore, I would also like to know everyones thoughts regarding why is pork so heavily consumed in the Western society although it has been also clearly forbidden by the bible:
In the book of Leviticus, chapter 11, v. 7, it is recorded that God declares the pig to be unclean for believers. Then, in verse 8, God says: “You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you”.
This command is repeated in Deuteronomy 14:7-8.
Then, in Isaiah 65:2-4, and 66:17, God issues a stern warning against those who eat pork.
STING (got it right this time :p ) my house is KOSHER, you will not find any ediable pig, nor pig skin in my house along with other prohobitions. All right for a non-muslim, eh?
Sheik is right you are scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Angel_Eyes
25-04-06, 08:13 AM
wow! ma sha Allah! this is a good thread...thanks for sharing..may Allah guide us all on the right path!
Ameen :)
nice thread, thanx Sting
btw Kara Islam and judaism are the only two religions that forbid Pork
nice thread, thanx Sting
btw Kara Islam and judaism are the only two religions that forbid Pork
Thanx for the info Sting
oh judaism forbids pork? then how come shiek eats bacon?
:Sick: :yuk:
Really?
Thank you for the information, I never knew all this! Sub7annah Allah. However, I did try Bacon by mistake and it tasted so goooooooooooood :os
zulfa1981
25-04-06, 12:08 PM
wow..very nice thread ..
Haroundb
25-04-06, 12:50 PM
Nice thread STING, keep the good work!
Something I have to not here, that we all must understand... We shouldn't rely much on the causes of prohibitions in Islam, that it will generate a doubtable brain that by time would generate a problem! When Allah prohibits something it is wise to understande the benefits of such prohibition but that should not take us to the point where we do it or leave it for the sake of the "benifits" because that would lead us to applying the wrong intention and would sequentially lead to loss of "hasanat" which is good points in our side.
So if science would evolve and describe the benefits of our Prayers to stretch relax our muscles and to keep our bodies healthy, that would probably lead many people to think of religion in a way of making out bodies better and that is good, as far as it doesn't reach the limit that we just focus on it and lose by that the actual meaning of the deed which is to comply with Allah's orders.
The moral is to know the benefits but in the same time keep in your heart the main reason of doing/not-doing it which is the adherence to Allah's orders. So while reading this thread and thanking Allah, you must keep in mind that you will not eat pork meat just to adhere to Allah's orders, not because it is harmful. That is the way or the reason that makes us Muslims who benifit from their being Muslims to Allah, different than Non-Muslims who don't eat pork meat because of their own reasons.
Thanx for the info Sting
oh judaism forbids pork? then how come shiek eats bacon?
:Sick: :yuk:
sheik is christian ;)
sheik-al-Tort
25-04-06, 01:13 PM
The problem with pork is that it needs to be properly cooked and in a hot climate goes off much faster than other meats. I suspect that this simple hygene fact was what led the wise men of old to ban it, rather than any inherent 'evil' in pigs.
Chicken also needs to be cooked carefully and of course now we have bird flu wondering around the globe, so extra care must be taken to ensure it's properly cooked.
I suspect eventually we will all give up meat and become vegetarians as it cannot be right to kill animals, except by today's moral standards
Some animals are meant to be eaten, it's part of the food chain and we need some vitamins, minerals or whatever from meat.
Isn't it interesting that there are "more than 450 epidemic diseases and it is playing the role of intermediary to transform 57 diseases to man", and that 2/3 monotheist religions banned it? It certainly says something!
Dark Project
25-04-06, 01:38 PM
wowow thats scary ... Thanks for the information .. What about other Halal animals do they have something similar ?
I love a bacon sandwich - yummy.
I see you are finally dredging the bottom of the barrel now Sting as you have nothing worthwhile to say.
Did you go out and celebrate tonight when your brethren blew up the hotel in Egypt?
O and thank you for the additional red cards I'm so concerned!:)
Please stick to the topic of the thread ;)
May Allah show you the right path. Ameen :)
Welcome everybody..It is my duty to spread awareness..
sheik is christian ;)
But even the Bible forbids PORK. Maybe only the "true" Christians follow it :D
I heard in a speech once that PORK doesn't only cause various disease, some of which I mentioned above, but it also has other effects on us the Humans. Did you know that the pig is the most filthy and shameful animal on this planet?
In the wild, pigs usually feed on the shit of other animals. Also, it is observed that male pigs actually enjoy watching other male pigs performing sex with its partner (female pig).
So apart from the diseases that it causes, I reckong it also plays a big role in making people shameful. That is another reason why all major religions have forbidden PORK.
I will try to get some more information about the shamful social behavious of the swine. Till then, spread awareness among all friends, specially the non-Muslims.
Salaam and may Allah show us all the right path :)
wowow thats scary ... Thanks for the information .. What about other Halal animals do they have something similar ?
No, all permissible meat do not cause any diseases if they are salughtered in the right Islamic manner, which ensures the removal all blood from the body of the animal before it is eaten.
Dark Project
25-04-06, 02:23 PM
No, all permissible meat do not cause any diseases if they are salughtered in the right Islamic manner, which ensures the removal all blood from the body of the animal before it is eaten.
Ok execuse my ignorence :) what about when we order a rare steak or eat un-cooked liver !!
Haroundb
25-04-06, 03:35 PM
It would be great if someone would have read my previous post, especially that Shaikh did say exactly what he supposed to say, and the answer was in my previous post even before I know what he would say it. Looking closely into things will give you a better understanding of its true meanings!
Alas!...
Ok execuse my ignorence :) what about when we order a rare steak or eat un-cooked liver !!
I see you enjoy your food don't ya :D
Anyhow, I am not sure about uncooked steak or uncooked liver. What I know is that basically it is the Blood which is known to be a great media for bacteria and it also transmits diseases. And if the animal is slaughtered correctly, all blood is removed and as a result, partially cooked food should also be also eatable.
BTW, I love raw fish ;)
pink floydian
25-04-06, 04:21 PM
I heard in a speech once that PORK doesn't only cause various disease, some of which I mentioned above, but it also has other effects on us the Humans. Did you know that the pig is the most filthy and shameful animal on this planet?
[QUOTE]In the wild, pigs usually feed on the shit of other animals. Also, it is observed that male pigs actually enjoy watching other male pigs performing sex with its partner (female pig).
yes pigs live in their own feces.
how can any1 eat an animal that lives in filth? :os even that oink oink noise it makes is disgusting!! lo0o0ol
thanxs for the thread Sting,
well you know what they even shock the animals with electric and eat them i dunno what is the circumstances of doing so......but surly it cause illness...
sheik-al-Tort
25-04-06, 05:05 PM
Thanx for the info Sting
oh judaism forbids pork? then how come shiek eats bacon?
:Sick: :yuk:
I'm a gentile and therefore destined to burn in hell for all eternity for my sins. So a bacon sarnie seems reasonable
sheik-al-Tort
25-04-06, 05:11 PM
Mark 7:18,19 "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him "unclean"? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body."
Mark 7:18,19 "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him "unclean"? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body."
but shaik what about if someone took poison....it's just like the pig !
The mind bender is...why was the pig created?
BTW quite a few of those diseases I can get without pig ingestation or handling
sheik-al-Tort
25-04-06, 06:14 PM
Poor little piggy much malinged. - they are in fact intelligent creatures and far cleaner than cows or sheep, but some cruel farmers stick them in pens where they cannot escape their filth. They are also more intelligent than other cattle
Arabian Princess
25-04-06, 06:14 PM
Kara, and you would find the answer in Haroundb post:
The moral is to know the benefits but in the same time keep in your heart the main reason of doing/not-doing it which is the adherence to Allah's orders. So while reading this thread and thanking Allah, you must keep in mind that you will not eat pork meat just to adhere to Allah's orders, not because it is harmful. That is the way or the reason that makes us Muslims who benifit from their being Muslims to Allah, different than Non-Muslims who don't eat pork meat because of their own reasons.
pink floydian
25-04-06, 06:46 PM
The mind bender is...why was the pig created?
God did not creat anything haphazardly,now pigs are used in medical researches because they have a similar anatomy to humans.
sheik-al-Tort
25-04-06, 07:10 PM
Strangely we share something like 97% of the same DNA as a common house fly. I expect this is how aliens can tell we are from Earth, should we bump in to them on other planets one day. I expect we will all have to take our own food
God did not creat anything haphazardly,now pigs are used in medical researches because they have a similar anatomy to humans.
sub7ana allah, thanxs for the info it's my 1st time to know that! how strange!?
The mind bender is...why was the pig created?
BTW quite a few of those diseases I can get without pig ingestation or handling
I reckon the pig was created to be the nature's recycler of animal filth and shit. We can all discuss about this issue, but I wonder why should we discuss and argue on a topic that not only the science has proved to be seriously dangerous, but also all major religious scriptures have forbidden it.
May Allah show us all the right path :)
Kara, and you would find the answer in Haroundb post:
Thanks Arabian princess, I missed that :)
God did not creat anything haphazardly,now pigs are used in medical researches because they have a similar anatomy to humans.
True, but did you know they started their research on mice with good results, so it goes to show that with genetic manipulation any mammal could be used, but the pig is cheap and physiologically similar to humans so less work involved.
I reckon the pig was created to be the nature's recycler of animal filth and shit.
Pigs will eat anything, yet God also created microbes, insects and worms to do the same (in anycase i'll keep my worm farm and compost heap, and forego buying a pig to recycle my food scraps ;) )
why is a giraf created? does anyone here eat giraffs? so only coz it's created for no reason we eat it? makes no sence :think:
i only wonder how come anyone eat a creature that lives in filth and squeals and oinks :os :Sick:
why is a giraf created? does anyone here eat giraffs? so only coz it's created for no reason we eat it? makes no sence :think:
i only wonder how come anyone eat a creature that lives in filth and squeals and oinks :os :Sick:
QuEeN, is it only me, or even you feel that some people around here are trying so hard to prove that PORK is gooooooooooooooood although we all proved that is terrible and bad both scientifically and religiously. Why so much ignorance :weep:
ya5i Sting let them eat it it's not our problem :p we warned them
ya5i Sting let them eat it it's not our problem :p we warned them
Mmmm..ok ok..You are right..Their holy book warned them, they didn't stop, other holy books warned them, they didn't stop, we warned them, they didn't stop. All I can say now is:
May Allah show them the right path. Say Ameen QuEeN :(
Dr Zakir Naik said:
"Pig is the most shameless animal"
"The pig is the most shameless animal on the face of the earth. It is the only animal that invites its friends to have sex with its mate. In America, most people consume pork. Many times after dance parties, they have swapping of wives; i.e. many say "you sleep with my wife and I will sleep with your wife." If you eat pigs then you behave like pigs. We Indians look upon America to be very advanced and sophisticated. Whatever they do, we follow after a few years. According to an article in Island magazine, this practice of swapping wives has become common in the affluent circles of Bombay."
source (http://www.irf.net/irf/dtp/dawah_tech/mcqnm11.htm)
I remember my teacher once telling me ages ago that: consuming pigs makes the person shameless
"elle yaakil khanzeer, yiseer dayooth" this is what he said
however, thats his opinion
HITMAN, I thank you for sharing that. I was trying to search for this for some time now. I guess the pig does make its eaters shamelessl! Dr. Zakir and you teacher made a very good point :star:
Dr Zakir Naik said:
"Pig is the most shameless animal"
"The pig is the most shameless animal on the face of the earth. It is the only animal that invites its friends to have sex with its mate. In America, most people consume pork. Many times after dance parties, they have swapping of wives; i.e. many say "you sleep with my wife and I will sleep with your wife." If you eat pigs then you behave like pigs. We Indians look upon America to be very advanced and sophisticated. Whatever they do, we follow after a few years. According to an article in Island magazine, this practice of swapping wives has become common in the affluent circles of Bombay."
source (http://www.irf.net/irf/dtp/dawah_tech/mcqnm11.htm)
I remember my teacher once telling me ages ago that: consuming pigs makes the person shameless
"elle yaakil khanzeer, yiseer dayooth" this is what he said
however, thats his opinion
How is this invite processed ?
Are invitations mailed out with an RSVP requested or will a phone call do ?
After reading this I can safely say that Dr. Naik is an absolute idiot.
I am saying pigs are no worse than any other animal and most can harbour zoonotic diseases.
Isn't it better to treat animals with kindness, we are supposedly better than them.
And no STING, I do not eat pork (well not intentionally).
After reading this I can safely say that Dr. Naik is an absolute idiot.
seems you got offended by what Dr Zakir said buddy :(
Nope, he is an idiot, thats all.
The ramblings of idiots don't offend me... I wouldn't be hanging around the sablea then, eh ?
your opinion doesnt make a difference to anyone
i agree with what Dr Zakir said :angel:
that explains the lack of scientific progress from your corner of the world.
Believing such rubbish (pigs inviting others to sleep with their partners indeed !) is good enough reason to explain th decay in scientific thought.
I can not agree with Dr Naik, its saying if you eat pig then you start acting like one. So following this reasoning if I eat a dog, will I start to sniff other peoples behinds? I don't think so.
People are just perverted, don't blame the pig.
nezitiC
26-04-06, 05:22 PM
I am saying pigs are no worse than any other animal and most can harbour zoonotic diseases.
Isn't it better to treat animals with kindness, we are supposedly better than them.
And no STING, I do not eat pork (well not intentionally).
Since they are not worse than any other animal, why don't you eat it ?
Since they are not worse than any other animal, why don't you eat it ?
I choose not to. I also choose not to eat what is forbidden in the Torah.
that explains the lack of scientific progress from your corner of the world.
Believing such rubbish (pigs inviting others to sleep with their partners indeed !) is good enough reason to explain th decay in scientific thought.
Dr Zakir Naik comes from India :D
And India is a nuclear state ;)
As for the pigs inviting their partners, would u believe it if I get u a scientific report? Would u then accept the truth and follow the right path? Or will u, as usual, DISAPPEAR :D
I choose not to. I also choose not to eat what is forbidden in the Torah.
do you have any information why it is forbidden in Torah?
what's forbidden to eat in the torah is forbidden in islam too, i think both religions agree on this point
Mark 7:18,19 "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him "unclean"? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body."
sheik, I just noticed this post, and I think that you quoted Jesus PBUH for the wrong situation, I have read this before and Jesus PBUH said that to reach a point, which is that food doesnt make a man dirty, but his heart makes him dirty, you still, cant use that as an evidence to eat pork....
However, it is clearly stated in the Torah or the old testament that pork is forbidden by God's word
BrAiKi, some people take what they like, turn and twist it, and throw away what they dont like and fail to turn and twist ;)
do you have any information why it is forbidden in Torah?
It doesn't chew the cud.
what's forbidden to eat in the torah is forbidden in islam too, i think both religions agree on this point
While both are in agreement on most animals and dietry law, there are also some differences.
As far as I am aware Islam allows dairy and meat to consumed together and there are varying opinions on whether crustaceans and mollusc are allowed to be eaten, these are forbidden in the Torah.
It is also forbidden to eat the rump and hind legs of an animal. Not sure about Islam with this.
Mr Tickle
27-04-06, 12:32 PM
"some people take what they like, turn and twist it, and throw away what they dont like and fail to turn and twist"
like Muslim terrorists?
PS incidentally, with all the people who eat pork in the UK, why are people still alive?
mr pinnochio, did u know that those who eat pig behave like it ?! I had read scientific papers on that and heard many talk about it. But now I certainly believe it.
May Allah show us all the right path. :)
Mr Tickle
27-04-06, 02:29 PM
Stung,
Why aren't hospital full of builders every day from about midday?
sheik-al-Tort
28-04-06, 03:32 PM
Pinnoccio it is possible that one or possibly two members may feel eating pork is tantamount to cannibalism. They are right not to eat it in such circumstances :)
Haroundb
29-04-06, 09:11 AM
that explains the lack of scientific progress from your corner of the world.
Believing such rubbish (pigs inviting others to sleep with their partners indeed !) is good enough reason to explain th decay in scientific thought.
Correct, you are right wudjab, they deserve what you say, becaue they don't listen to what I say.
Note: Refer back to my first post in this thread then you will understand why wudjab is correct!
Why do we have to repeat things again and agin? Where is the brain in our life! Where is the ears?
If pork was the only cure for all human diseases WE WOULD DIE rather than to take a bite of it. NO logics should be applied to Allah's prohibition for things. Relieving our suspicious minds by reasoning prohibitions would definitely result in complete failure.
When a human prohibits he prohibits to his limited knowledge but When Allah prohibits He prohibits to his Complete Full Eternal Knowledge. What would be the problem if you marry a woman that your mother did "breast feed"? is your mother's milk make a difference? Doesn't it being digested and then wasted makes it totally "irrelevant" to such dramatic decisions?
Why ... why ... why ... why? Why don't we use pork's meat or fat or anything of it? Isn't it a creature of Allah? You know why don't we use anything of it? The answer is very simple: "Because Allah said so"
Then what is my point? My point is very simple, it is to stop finding reasons for Allah's prohibitions, because this would definitely lead us to bigger questions that we don't really have the knowledge to answer it. And when we start having answers due to the expand of our knowledge, there will come more bigger questions with more far complications. That is the test, of Allah to us, or would it be as simple as everyone would discover the correctness of Islam, everyone would be a Muslim? Isn't this what Allah did say in Quran? Didn't he say that if He (Allah) wanted it to make all humans come to the correct path He would have done?
So what is the message? The message is: there will be things in our life that no matter how much we come near to its answer it will jump to a new level with new challenging questions... Why? To keep the answer as a filter to block unbeliever minds who doubt ultimately all logics and to pass passionate mind who are really willing for an answer!
This is the way information passed to different people got them to different points according to what is inside their hearts and what do they really want, because if you can deceive the whole world you can never deceive yourself!
Was it pork pig or swine, whine blood or cutting a vain... If you don't have the will to reach, there is nothing from knowledge that you will gain!!!!
“Please Allah guide us…we are blind without your light, deaf without your words and for sure to destruct we will go!”
That was the pray of those who need to reach before Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) came to earth with the message. Now we got the light to go in this life, why do we close our eyes? And block our ears?
“Please Allah do open our eyes to see your light and open our ears to hear your words, for that to our eternal flourish we wish to go and see Our Prophet Mohammad (Peace Be Upon Him) eye to eye and tell him you did deliver the message and we were up to it …”
May Allah Bless Us All…Ameen Ameen Ameen.
Nice thread STING, keep the good work!
Something I have to not here, that we all must understand... We shouldn't rely much on the causes of prohibitions in Islam, that it will generate a doubtable brain that by time would generate a problem! When Allah prohibits something it is wise to understande the benefits of such prohibition but that should not take us to the point where we do it or leave it for the sake of the "benifits" because that would lead us to applying the wrong intention and would sequentially lead to loss of "hasanat" which is good points in our side.
So if science would evolve and describe the benefits of our Prayers to stretch relax our muscles and to keep our bodies healthy, that would probably lead many people to think of religion in a way of making out bodies better and that is good, as far as it doesn't reach the limit that we just focus on it and lose by that the actual meaning of the deed which is to comply with Allah's orders.
The moral is to know the benefits but in the same time keep in your heart the main reason of doing/not-doing it which is the adherence to Allah's orders. So while reading this thread and thanking Allah, you must keep in mind that you will not eat pork meat just to adhere to Allah's orders, not because it is harmful. That is the way or the reason that makes us Muslims who benifit from their being Muslims to Allah, different than Non-Muslims who don't eat pork meat because of their own reasons.
i totaly agree 100%
i was discussing the same issue with my friend and she said the exact same view..it makes sence :) whatever Allah orders us to do we must do it there's no need to get evidences to prove anything..our god knows what's best for us
sheik-al-Tort
29-04-06, 03:58 PM
Well God through Jesus Christ said that I can enjoy my bacon sandwich as I read the papers and read about much more important things than this trivia - like the poor people in Sudan, and the evil Jinjaweed who no doubt eschew pork, but are rapists and murderers
sheik can you support your post ? other than the quote that you used before ?
thank you
sheik-al-Tort
30-04-06, 02:31 AM
Braiki the post i used before is all I need.
Braiki the post i used before is all I need.
Is all you need for what I wonder :rolleyes:
sheik-al-Tort
30-04-06, 11:39 PM
Is all you need for what I wonder :rolleyes:
Well Sting it doesn't surprise me that you wonder as your ability to understand anything is in itself one of the wonders of the world.
have the spots cleared up?
Pardon my ignorance sheik. I agree, I face a lot of problems when it comes to understanding many who eat the flesh of swine and become shameless :os
sheik-al-Tort
01-05-06, 02:28 AM
What about puffed up peacocks?
LoL sheik. Unless the peacock is 4-legged, I don't think it will intrest me :D
Mr Tickle
02-05-06, 01:55 PM
Stung,
Every morning, thousands and thousands of builders will be sitting in a cafe and be having bacon as part of their beakfast
Why are they not in hopsital a few hours later?
Stung,
Every morning, thousands and thousands of builders will be sitting in a cafe and be having bacon as part of their beakfast
Why are they not in hopsital a few hours later?
LoL LoL LoL :D :D :D
Now thats exactly why you shouldn't have PORK! Don't you know that DOCTORS not Builders go to thew Hospital every morning :D :D :D
LoL
Good topic STING.
The mind bender is...why was the pig created?
There are thousads of animals and other creatures in the planet, some of them good for humans and some are not. You can also say why insects are created, etc. The thing is Allah created humans and know what is good for them to eat and what is not good. Allah gave us other options as a source of meat, like cow/goat meat, fish, chicken, etc. And forbids eating pork meat (for reasons we could know and reasons we are not aware of), wild animals meat, etc. Life is all about how a human being can control his desiers and obey God. It could be created for a test to see who will follow Allah rules and who will disobey.
This is like having fresh/good meat and dirty/rotton meat and some people will still go for the 2nd choice!
Why are they not in hopsital a few hours later?
Maybe it takes sometime like AIDS.
How do you feel when you see how pigs live, why you don't eat cats/dog meat also?
sheik-al-Tort
03-05-06, 05:33 PM
LoL sheik. Unless the peacock is 4-legged, I don't think it will intrest me :D
Interest in 4 legged things is unnatural STingy
Mr Tickle
03-05-06, 05:33 PM
Tea/Stung,
We have been eating pork for hundreds and hundreds of years - why is there anyone alive in the UK?
Also you have been drinking alcohol for hundreds and hundreds of years - why is there anyone alive in the UK?
sheik-al-Tort
03-05-06, 06:27 PM
Exactly Ice Tea. We don't really exist as we are all dead and have a lower mortality rate, higher life expectancy than your average Middle Eastern.
Not bad for alcoholic pig eaters eh?
Exactly Ice Tea. We don't really exist as we are all dead and have a lower mortality rate, higher life expectancy than your average Middle Eastern.
Not bad for alcoholic pig eaters eh?
Now we all know scientifically that PORK is unhealthy and it causes various diseases (not immediate death). Since you seem to reject all the scientific evidence about PORK being unhealthy and about how pork is shameful, may you please explain this:
Leviticus 11:7-8 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be cloven footed, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcass shall ye not touch, they are unclean to you.
Thank you
sheik-al-Tort
05-05-06, 01:34 AM
Sting I'm a Christian and the new testament allows pork.
If it's so bad how come we live longer then people from your country?
If it's so bad how come we live longer then people from your country?
Whats the source of that information?
Pineapple Thief
05-05-06, 02:51 AM
These kinds of silly, pointless, childish discussions actually make me a little embarassed. If someone wants to eat pork, let them, its between them and their lord.
khalas!
Sting I'm a Christian and the new testament allows pork.
If it's so bad how come we live longer then people from your country?
I don't know about which people live longer than the other but if you provide some source we might be able to have some constructive discussion.
Anyhow, regarding my quote being from the old testament, can you explain this:
" Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill them. " ( Matthew 5:17 )
Doesn't this mean that the laws related to the flesh of swine are still considered? And what about this indident:
Jesus (pbuh) destroyed 2000 pigs to heal one man "And forthwith Jesus gave them leave (permission). And the unclean spirits (the devils) went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea (they were about two thousand); and were choked in the sea MARK 5:13
These kinds of silly, pointless, childish discussions actually make me a little embarassed. If someone wants to eat pork, let them, its between them and their lord.
khalas!
I agree with you dear. I simply wanted to spread awareness. But if someone still wants to eat PORK, then its their choice. But I don't think it is appropriate they go around trying to prove that PORK is actually good. We must prove that wrong right?
Anyhow, I think we should discuss the issue a bit scientifically now.
sheik-al-Tort
05-05-06, 04:01 AM
yawn .
Sting I'm a Christian and the new testament allows pork.
But did God allow it?
Mr Tickle
05-05-06, 12:16 PM
Stung/Tea,
Please explian how there is anyone alive in the UK after we have been eating pork and drinking alcohol for hundreds and hundreds of years?
Are you actually aware how much bacon is consumed EVERY day here....and yet we are living longer?
And who said that if the person eats pork or drink alcohol he will die immediately?
Do you deny the scientific facts posted by STING about the diseases caused by eating pork?
Do you agree with below quote?
"If you eat pigs then you behave like pigs" - Dr. Zakir Naik
Mr Tickle
05-05-06, 02:37 PM
Tea,
1) I am not talking about anything immediate...........over hundreds and hundreds of years, the English (for example) have been eating pork......and yet our average life span is getting longer.........explain that
2) I am not a scientist. However, I do know that if you don't cook chicken, you will get salmonella. Imagine that
3) Could you let me know how pigs behave, and I will answer your question?
Thanks
pino,
1. Your argument doesn't make sense, english people die and new people born. Again no one said if you eat pork you will die immediately, if the person have AIDS do you think he will die immediately?
2. But red meat is different then chicken, meat you can eat it half done or some people even eat it raw. Do you still deny the scientific facts regarding diseases cause by eating pork?
3. I don't have pigs farm, maybe you can visit one of the farms in the UK and observe the attitude of pigs.
Mr Tickle
05-05-06, 03:00 PM
Tea,
1) WHY IS OUR AVERAGE LIFE SPAN GETTING LONGER DESPITE THE AMOUNT OF PORK WE HAVE EATEN FOR HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF YEARS.
WHY ARE HEALTHY CHILDREN BORN TO PEOPLE WHO EAT PORK?
WHY ARE WE NOT AFFECTED BY IT?
ODD, ISN'T IT?
2) I AM NOT A SCIENTIST. WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS WHY WE ARE 'ALL' SO HEALTHY IF WE HAVE EATEN PORK FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS?
3) YOU TELL ME HOW YOU IMAGINE PIGS LIVE, AND I WILL TELL YOU IF WE LIVE THAT WAY
mr pinnochio there is a limit to spreading information without providing any source. I request u once again, please provice a source so we can discuss the issue in a better way.
I can go on and say:
Why is your life spane getting shorter?
Why are your children becoming fatter?
Why are more women being raped everyday without any solution? Perhaps behaving like Pigs is one of the reasons?
Of course, once again, my claims are far more true than yours and I can even provide a source, but I am very busy nowadays therefore I suggest you back your claims so we can discuss it in detail.
Salaam
3. I don't have pigs farm, maybe you can visit one of the farms in the UK and observe the attitude of pigs.
The Habits of Swine
To get a first hand idea, I interviewed farmers of Fisher, Indiana, who breed swine. According to them, "Swine is cheaper to breed, since it does not require pasture. It can live on manure and other such items including dead meat. In fact it can eat its own feces. Their sexual habits are also different than other animals like cows, sheep and goats. They have very little shame i.e. engage in sex acts anytime any place while others sometime wait for darkness. The female hog is very aggressive in sexual activity. When she is in "heat" she does not care about anything (i.e. food or privacy) until she has sex. Swine, also lick the genitalia of their partners after sex like dogs, but unlike other mammals like cows, sheep or goats."SOURCE (http://islam-usa.com/h7.html)
STING, thanx for sharing, those are some interesting facts :)
looooooooooooooooooooool now that article made me Laugh!
i cant imagine myself eating its meat! :os
I think the university should call Dr. Shahid Athar and cancel his M.D immediately.
:D :D
I think the university should call Dr. Shahid Athar and cancel his M.D immediately.
:D :D
Seems you got offended :afro:
Not at all.
But for a 'supposedly' educated doctor to publish such absolute tripe makes one wonder what his actual qualifications are !
For examples. Their sexual habits are also different than other animals like cows, sheep and goats. They have very little shame i.e. engage in sex acts anytime any place while others sometime wait for darkness.
Garbage meant for the garbage bin.
Interesting facts STING ;), thanks for sharing and with a source also.
wudjab, if you don't believe what is posted you can yourself visit a swine farm and watch yourself.
God knows what is good and what is bad for humans to eat, you can't deny that.
Do you deny the scientific facts posted by STING about the diseases caused by eating pork?
Only a couple...
Western River Virus encephalitis - No such disease with this name. A real disease with a similar name is Western Equine Encephalitis Virus, equine being the operative word.
Russian River encephalitis - Again no such disease with this name. The name probably was a mixture of the real diseases Ross River Viris and Russian Sping-Summer Virus. Both are transmitted by arthropods.
Giganthorinchus gigas - I think this pathogen was made up or is spelt incorrectly, there are no CREDIBLE sites that mentions this thing. But if you want I can ask my boss who just so happens to be a Pathologist. (by credible site I mean .edu)
oh yeah Smallpox is not a zoonotic disease.
Interesting facts STING ;), thanks for sharing and with a source also.
wudjab, if you don't believe what is posted you can yourself visit a swine farm and watch yourself.
You are welcome brother IceTea.
Regarding visiting a pig farm to see their behavior. I don't think it is actually necessary. As you know, those who eat PORK behave like PIG. And today you can see around what is going on in America. It has a multi-billion dollar PORNOGRAPHY industry!
Only a couple...
Western River Virus encephalitis - No such disease with this name. A real disease with a similar name is Western Equine Encephalitis Virus, equine being the operative word.
Russian River encephalitis - Again no such disease with this name. The name probably was a mixture of the real diseases Ross River Viris and Russian Sping-Summer Virus. Both are transmitted by arthropods.
Giganthorinchus gigas - I think this pathogen was made up or is spelt incorrectly, there are no CREDIBLE sites that mentions this thing. But if you want I can ask my boss who just so happens to be a Pathologist. (by credible site I mean .edu)
oh yeah Smallpox is not a zoonotic disease.
No problem you can ask.
But one thing you are missing that when God prohibit something it can be for a reason humans know it, will know it in the future or only God konws the reasons behind it. The point is people should have trust in Allah and obey the rules given to them.
STING, you have a valid point ;)
I agree with IceTea, I wont say more than what alkhudar said to Moses PBUH, what we all know compared to what God knows is like a drop of rain compared to the sea
IceTea I think you missed the point of my post. My point being that the "scientific" facts in the first post by STING are not entirely scientific, are they?
Don't get me wrong some of those diseases are piggy diseases and some are not only limited to pigs but also cattle, sheep, crustaceans, fish, water, soil and so on. But the diseases that are an exception are those that I commented on and the people who wrote it need to do a little more research.
It does seem to me that most of you accept that God has forbidden it, why not just leave it at that.
Kara, whould you accept to eat something if at least can cause one disease not many? And knowing you have a better source also.
Well you can acquire diseases from drinking water, but I'm not going to stop drinking it because there is a risk.
ANyway food it the least of my worries when thinking about catching diseases. My work poses a greater risk.
Kara it is really not much productive to argue on something that does no good to anybody.
I agry that we can catch diseases from cattle, chicken, water, fish, and even plants. And of course, the list goes on. But all of those diseases can be prevented if certain precautions are taken.
So the basic point here is that why would someone want to eat a filthy meat that both the religions of the world and science degrades? The diseases spread by eating PORK can't be prevented. If not all than atleast most.
Furthermore, have you read the scientific paper released about how "what you eat affexts your behavior"? And it is well know that eating PORK makes people shameful just like the pigs.
As long as you agree that Pig meat should not be eaten, I think my goal is attained.
Thank you :)
kara, your comparison between water and pork is not valid. First of all no human being can survive without water and second thing the person won't die if he didn't eat meat. Let alone that there are other sources of good meat god gave us.
And Verily in the cattle there is indeed a lesson for you. We give you to drink (milk) of that which is in their bellies. And there are, in them, numerous (other) benefits for you, and of them you eat.
So the basic point here is that why would someone want to eat a filthy meat that both the religions of the world and science degrades? The diseases spread by eating PORK can't be prevented. If not all than atleast most.
6 out of the 25 diseases listed are ONLY pig diseases, or the pig is the main host:
1.Taenia solium - can be acquired by eating pig
2. Roundworm- Ascaris suum - environmental contamination
3. Fasciolopsis buski - environmental contamination or snail ingestion
4. Metastrongylus apri - environmental contamination or earthworm ingestion
5. Salmonella cholerasuis - can be acquired by eating pig
6. Swine Erysipelas- can be acquired by eating pig
And only 3 of those 6 can be acquired by eating pig. The other 3 can only be acquired by eating either the intermediate host or from contaminated water and soil. All of which can be prevented by inspecting and cooking the meat properly, treating the water and washing any edible plants thoroughly.
Furthermore, have you read the scientific paper released about how "what you eat affexts your behavior"? And it is well know that eating PORK makes people shameful just like the pigs.
It isn't a scientific report. It is a postulation (it even says so in the essay). A postulation is NOT proof.
As long as you agree that Pig meat should not be eaten, I think my goal is attained.
I only agree that it should not be eaten because God says so. Otherwise there is no other reason.
Thats telliing it like it is, kara.
kara, your comparison between water and pork is not valid. First of all no human being can survive without water and second thing the person won't die if he didn't eat meat. Let alone that there are other sources of good meat god gave us.
And Verily in the cattle there is indeed a lesson for you. We give you to drink (milk) of that which is in their bellies. And there are, in them, numerous (other) benefits for you, and of them you eat.
ok then lets look at beef
Some Cattle diseases..
Taenia saginata
BSE (Mad cow disease)
Mycobacterium bovis
Salmonella typhimirium
Anthrax
Clostridium botulinum
Brucella abortus
Echinococcus granulosus (Hydatid)
Leptospirosis spp.
Coxiella burnetii (Q fever) - but not only limited to cattle.
Schistosoma bovis
Schistosoma mattheei
from the list that STING gave us:
Balantidium coli
Fusiformis necrofurus
Schistosoma japonicum
What about shamelessness Kara ?
Is the cow a shameless animal ?
Does it invite others to share its mate ?
Does it enjoy public sex ?
This attribution of human emotions (like shame) to animals makes me think that Dr. Shahid Athar and Dr. Zakir Naik went to the same 'university'.
:color:
I dont know but I did find this
http://animalbehaviour.net/JudithKBlackshaw/Chapter3c.htm
this sentence was of particular interest
"Bulls commonly masturbate, especially at times of inactivity (Houpt, 1998)." :XD:
ok then lets look at beef
Some Cattle diseases..
Taenia saginata
BSE (Mad cow disease)
Mycobacterium bovis
Salmonella typhimirium
Anthrax
Clostridium botulinum
Brucella abortus
Echinococcus granulosus (Hydatid)
Leptospirosis spp.
Coxiella burnetii (Q fever) - but not only limited to cattle.
Schistosoma bovis
Schistosoma mattheei
from the list that STING gave us:
Balantidium coli
Fusiformis necrofurus
Schistosoma japonicum
Even humans get diseases, no one said other animals don't get diseases. However, by default Cattle meat is good for humans but if the animal affacted by a disease then simply avoide it. And all what you are trying to prove doesn't give a justification to eat pigs meat.
Even humans get diseases, no one said other animals don't get diseases. However, by default Cattle meat is good for humans but if the animal affacted by a disease then simply avoide it. And all what you are trying to prove doesn't give a justification to eat pigs meat.
I am not trying to justify eating what God has forbidden. I am saying there is no reason to not eat it other that God saying do not eat it.
Try and find another reason to not eat it other than God forbidding it?
other that God saying do not eat it.
That reason is more than enough, God created humans and know what is good and what is bad for them. Do you think humans know better than God?
Calm down Tea, I think I know what Kara's point is...
But then again, God Forbids for reason, we might know this reason, we might not!
My brothers Ice Tea & STING say that modren science explains why God forbids pork, Kara says that that modren science explanation is not precise, or not convincing....
We r all right after all, since we don't eat what God forbids, even tho The holy quraan always encourages for truth seeking and researching, within the brain's limits of comprehension, thats why we muslims, always try to find out why God forbids pork, and for me, knowing what swine eats and how it lives is more than enough to make me not eat it....
in christianity it's forbidden as well in the old testament, n since Jesus said himself that he was not sent to disagree with the prophets' teachings, that means the same prophets' teachings remain for the followers of Jesus Peace Be Upon Him
My brothers Ice Tea & STING say that modren science explains why God forbids pork, Kara says that that modren science explanation is not precise, or not convincing....
Thats it! Thank you Braiki. :)
Thanks Braiki and I didn't say the opposite of what you mentioned ;).
So kara will you still eat pork?
She never said she did.
She has a brain and doesn't try to provide 'scientific evidence' when there isn't any scientific evidence.
She does not eat pork because her religion tells her not to eat pork.
As simple as that.
Can't you read ? Have you been eating pork ?
Can't you read ? Have you been eating pork ?
he didn't asked you dunno is it that hard for you.....
mumbling about pork all over you seem you like eating pork very much...
He did ask me. Can't you read as well ?
As a matter of fact I shall be cooking some rashers of bacon for breakfast today.
He did ask me. Can't you read as well ?
As a matter of fact I shall be cooking some rashers of bacon for breakfast today.
god bless you did you sneezed ?!
Are you guys still arguing about this? I don't get whats the big deal here.. muslims don't eat pork cause it's haram and some non-muslims enjoy eating it..so what? Move on people.
shamsery
07-05-06, 09:55 PM
“The aim of the thread to create awareness among Muslim and Non-Muslim regarding the flesh of swine (pork) from a scientific dimension. “
It is on the 5th page.
What is the conclusion?
???????????
The conclusion is as same as regarding eating the brains of monkeys & eating cockroaches
Mark 7:18,19 "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him "unclean"? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body."
Many enjoy it, so be it :)
sheik-al-Tort
07-05-06, 10:22 PM
Are you guys still arguing about this? I don't whats the big deal here.. muslims don't eat pork cause it's haram and some non-muslims enjoy eating it..so what? Move on people.
well said Nabby this is a lot of insignificant nonsense when we are struggling
with real evil and planetary problems
Are you guys still arguing about this? I don't whats the big deal here.. muslims don't eat pork cause it's haram and some non-muslims enjoy eating it..so what? Move on people.
The aim of my thread was to spread awareness from both a religios and a scientific dimension. I also mentioned all the sources. Now some PORK eaters are trying their best to prove that PORK is actually good.
No body is talking about whether is Haram or Halal. And for your information, nothing is made Halal or Haram without a good reason behind it.
shamsery the logical conclusion of this thread, backed with scientific prove, was mentioned in the opening thread.
Sadly, some people start to argue ;)
No body is talking about whether is Haram or Halal.
Aha..so are you telling me that if pork wasn't haram muslims will still stop eating it?
Be logical Sting, if it wasn't then muslims wouldn't have cared if pigs lived in the sewers and would have still eating it's meat. It's not like smoking or drinking fizzy drinks is healthy either but because there is no clear verdict (being haram or halal) muslims drink pop and smoke.
Thank you for your awareness thread.. but I also think that the non-muslims have a right to express how they feel about the matter without you calling them pork eathers or whatever in several threads in the sabla. :)
It's not like smoking or drinking fizzy drinks is healthy either but because there is no clear verdict (being haram or halal) muslims drink pop and smoke.
Even that fizzy drinks are not prohibited, I didnt see anyone claiming that they are good for health or are harmless, same goes for smoking & same goes for pork
I ate bacon on Wednesday. I ordered a toasted vegetarian panini, and instead, they served me with bacon panini. It was too late when I realized that it was not vegetarian, I finished one whole one. It tasted really good, that's why I understand why some eat it, because it simply tastes delicious
ouffffff!!!
My family is ultra careful when thet go abroad, they check the food and ask if it contains pork...once we stayed in london for whole 3 months and didn't eat pork during that time, but in heathrow airport, we stopped at starbuck or some similar restaurant and they all had sandwiches, after a while they found out that it was pork sandwiches!!! they all said it tasted good tho, thank god i didn't eat the sandwiches!
Yeah Braiki you have to be careful. I try to find kosher, halal or vegetarian resaurants to eat in.
Yeah Braiki you have to be careful. I try to find kosher, halal or vegetarian resaurants to eat in.
why does most of the restaurants serves porks not cow or sheep meat in the west?
why does most of the restaurants serves porks not cow or sheep meat in the west?
They do serve other meat its just they don't slaughter the animal in the Kosher/halal way. They also have this nasty habit of adding pork products to dishes and not including it on the menu.
I ate bacon on Wednesday. I ordered a toasted vegetarian panini, and instead, they served me with bacon panini. It was too late when I realized that it was not vegetarian, I finished one whole one. It tasted really good, that's why I understand why some eat it, because it simply tastes delicious
Looks you was very hungry that you couldn't make out a veg from bacon :rolleyes:
And tastes delicious, maybe God made it that way for a reason that despite it's haram but still taste delicious as a test for humans wheather they will obey God or follow their desires and enjoy eating it.
They also have this nasty habit of adding pork products to dishes and not including it on the menu.
They should show some respects to muslims and others and be clear about it.
just to add to some of what Kara's saying...
the sheep/cows/etc thats been slaughtered by the Jews (or christians not sure of it) Is halal for muslims to eat, that is, by God's word
just to add to some of what Kara's saying...
the sheep/cows/etc thats been slaughtered by the Jews (or christians not sure of it) Is halal for muslims to eat, that is, by God's word
but what i know is in the time you slaughter you should say bism allah alrahman alrahim then you can take it, could you give me anything from the quran or ahadith about it plz?
You have to mention Gods name when u slaughter it n I think the Jews do that... I'll look for it, I am sure av read it before!
al maida (the table) ayat number 5
5. This day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them. (Lawful unto you in marriage) are (not only) chaste women who are believers, but chaste women among the People of the Book, revealed before your time,- when ye give them their due dowers, and desire chastity, not lewdness, nor secret intrigues if any one rejects faith, fruitless is his work, and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good).
ofcourse swine is not considered as the food of the people of the book
the same ayyah says that it's halal to marry a believer of the book (any abrahemic faith follower)
al maida (the table) ayat number 5
ofcourse swine is not considered as the food of the people of the book
the same ayyah says that it's halal to marry a believer of the book (any abrahemic faith follower)
thanxs Brake ;)
here i got something too but in arabic here is the links....
1st (http://www.ibadhiyah.net/fatawa/showthread.php?postid=7588&highlight=%D0%C8%CD#post7588), 2nd (http://www.ibadhiyah.net/fatawa/showthread.php?threadid=468&perpage=1&highlight=ذبح&pagenumber=19) , 3rd (http://www.ibadhiyah.net/fatawa/showthread.php?threadid=468&perpage=1&highlight=ذبح&pagenumber=13) , 4th (http://www.ibadhiyah.net/fatawa/showthread.php?threadid=468&perpage=1&highlight=ذبح&pagenumber=11), 5th (http://www.ibadhiyah.net/fatawa/showthread.php?threadid=468&perpage=1&highlight=ذبح&pagenumber=10).
thank you Marvel
to make a summary of this:
If a muslim slaughtered sheep/cow/etc without mentioning God's name, its not Halal and we must not eat it
If a Believer (jewish, christian) slaughtered sheep/cow/etc without mentioning God's name, its not Halal and we must not eat it
If a muslim slaughtered sheep/cow/etc with mentioning God's name, its Halal and we may eat it
If a believer(jewish, christian) slaughtered sheep/cow/etc with mentioning God's name, it is Halal and we may eat it
:)
Aha..so are you telling me that if pork wasn't haram muslims will still stop eating it?
No I was not telling you that. I was telling you that the aim of my thread was not to discuss whether it is haram or halal.
Be logical Sting, if it wasn't then muslims wouldn't have cared if pigs lived in the sewers and would have still eating it's meat. It's not like smoking or drinking fizzy drinks is healthy either but because there is no clear verdict (being haram or halal) muslims drink pop and smoke.
You can add pop music to that list ;). There is a clear verdict that smoking and drinking alcohol is haraam. About the fizzy drinks, I would rather compare that to not exercising and sitting on the net 24/7 ;) You can't compare fizzy drinks with PORK. TO understand why, please go back and read the opening post.
Thank you for your awareness thread.. but I also think that the non-muslims have a right to express how they feel about the matter without you calling them pork eathers or whatever in several threads in the sabla. :)
When did I call anybody a PORK eater? I know some members who proudly called themself PORK eaters.
My aim was to prove that PORK is actually very bad and I am glad I have done that. I never stopped anybody to express his/her opinion. But is it not my right to express mine?
Edited : Sting sarcasm towards Nabhan or any other member is not going to be tolerated- Lym
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