View Full Version : Confessional Box
Confessional Box: This is where the Priest, otherwise known as the representative of God, sits to listen to those that wish to confess their sins for forgiveness.
The questions that can be asked:
Who appointed the Priest (who is a human being) to be representative of God and forgive people sins?
Don't you think that this concept will only lead christians to commit more sins as they only need to go the confession box and their sins will be erased then staight to heaven?
amo_l_oman
11-04-06, 09:11 AM
is the same for us as we know everything will be forgiven but shirk
in the end is up to the individual
good point IceTea raised by you out there
btw, do you know how it works for the orthodox christians? they dont have a confession box! :rolleyes:
amo, what do you mean by everything will be forgiven?
amo_l_oman
11-04-06, 09:25 AM
Both in Quran and Hadeeth is said that if the sinner truly repents, all his/her sins will be forgiven [apart shirk]
so one might think that in the end everything is possible and enough to pray and ask for forgiveness
We know that is not like that
On the other side Christians may think that everything is allowed cause going to priest to confess is enough
If your point is the human being as God mediator then fine
Milliardo Peacecraft
11-04-06, 10:51 AM
Confessional Box:Who appointed the Priest (who is a human being) to be representative of God and forgive people sins?
Don't you think that this concept will only lead christians to commit more sins as they only need to go the confession box and their sins will be erased then staight to heaven?
John 20:21-23--(Jesus) said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you."
And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit.
Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."
I think that passage is very clear, IceTea. As for committing more sins...not exactly. One would have to see that if that Christian is well-grounded in his Christianity, then he will do all he can not to commit that sin again.
Milliardo Peacecraft
11-04-06, 10:52 AM
btw, do you know how it works for the orthodox christians? they dont have a confession box! :rolleyes:
No, they don't have a confessional box, but they do confess to the priest face-to-face.
but they do confess to the priest face-to-face.
do they really do it face-to-face ?
amo_l_oman
11-04-06, 02:18 PM
ye i did it a couple of times
not a big deal
John 20:21-23--(Jesus) said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you."
And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit.
Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."
That passage didn't say a priest can forgive other people sins?
I think that passage is very clear, IceTea. As for committing more sins...not exactly. One would have to see that if that Christian is well-grounded in his Christianity, then he will do all he can not to commit that sin again.
I think you will agree that the majority are normal christians (not well-grounded), so it will be ok for them to commit more sins and go to the box.
Let us say that a priest commits a sin (child abuse, which we heard many stories before about it). Now how the priest will confess & forgive his own sins?
ye i did it a couple of times
not a big deal
How did you felt when you did it?
amo_l_oman
11-04-06, 02:41 PM
like a killer in front of the judge :cute:
i was so young, i think it was after receiving the communion for the first time, round 10-11 yrs old
felt guilty that's it
Originally Posted by Milliardo Peacecraft
John 20:21-23--(Jesus) said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you."
And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit.
Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."
What do you think that means, teabag ?
And priests also go to confession.
Dark Project
11-04-06, 04:54 PM
U don’t need to go into the box to confess anymore ... check this site ;)
http://www.managingdesire.org/confession.html
Just wanted to add humor . I guess its like humans needs people of knowledge to confess their sins and not necessarily it would be redeemed but the feeling that you have talked to one of Holy people or a Sheikh and wants to hear the words that God is merciful , dont do it again and every one sins .. brings comfort ... I guess .
Milliardo Peacecraft
12-04-06, 02:33 AM
That passage didn't say a priest can forgive other people sins?
IceTea, the Apostles were first given this commission to forgive and retain sins. After the Apostles came the bishops and the priests; this commission then was handed on to them.
I think you will agree that the majority are normal christians (not well-grounded), so it will be ok for them to commit more sins and go to the box.
I disagree with that, IceTea.
Isn't this something like going to Haj and having all your sins forgiven ?
X-press
12-04-06, 03:02 AM
A Confessional Box is a place where someone can purify his soul by confessing his sins to a representative of the Church. The priest only listens, guides the 'sinner' by telling him what to recite in order for his sins to be eventually forgiven from Up Above.
I really don't see Icy why you would think that this concept can lead to more sins. To a different degree, we can also make a similar comparaison with the fast we Muslims observe. Fasting properly during the entire month of Ramadan can wipe our sins of the entire previous year. Do Muslim commit automatically more sins because they know they just have to observe correctly the Holy Month to be forgiven?
X-press
12-04-06, 03:13 AM
Isn't this something like going to Haj and having all your sins forgiven ?
I believe what Icy wants to point at is the role of a priest when it comes for someone's sins to be forgiven. In Islam, there is no 'middle men' (if I may say) between the sinner and The Creator.
As you bring the example of Hajj, the pilgrims do not have to face a religious representant who will be the only person with the power to forgive. They face God directly and hope He and only Him will forgive them.
An Iman can guide and advise what to recite or perform in the hope to be forgiven, but he has absolutely no supreme power to wipe his or someone else's sins.
Only God knows best!
My point was more to the fact that Icy claimed that going to confession gave you a license to sin again.
It is nothing like that, just as going to Haj / Ramadhan like you mentioned, does not give you a license to sin all over again.
X-press
12-04-06, 04:24 AM
I agree Wudjab, one has nothing to do with the other....Maybe for a Muslim it is difficult to understand the concept of a Confessional box.
Someone who did confess is supposed to do his best not to commit the same sin again or even other deeds which are viewed as bad. It is more a way to spiritual clean himself than to say:"Great now that I got the priest blessing, let me go and sin more".
As a little note, I remember that in the community where I lived in, the Christians who did not go recently through the confession box were not allowed to receive the communion. This means that they could not queue and receive 'the Host', which is the blessed bread used during the service. It is usually placed by the priest on the tongue or on the palm of the Believers.
BliNd_MelOn
12-04-06, 06:04 AM
Disregarding if it gives people a license to sin again, whether they do or not..I'm not really convinced with the idea of "confessing" to someone who "represents" GOD.. Doesn't that make people feel "distant" from God? Having to go to church to talk to a priest whenever they sin.
I believe that we (people from all religions) could just "talk" to God and tell him about our sins and ask for forgiveness.. Talking to God himself with true intentions of repenting is how you feel closer to God.. Without having to go to some priest (a perfect stranger) and gossip to him!
As a muslim, I talk to God in every prayer, I talk to god at home, from my room, at night.. during the day, it doesn't really matter when!
Would someone talk to God on his own without having REAL intentions of repenting and ask for forgiveness? Would they dare to sin again?
Some might.. But most of them honestly don't.
Question: I've seen in some movies, and read in books dialogues that go on in a confession box where the person says "Forgive me father for I have sinned.. It's been 4 weeks since my last confession.. "
~ Is not "confessing your sins" considered a sin in itself?
~ Why does the priest need to know when the last time you confessed was?
~ Does the priest assume that this person has "sinned" the whole time he hasn't been confessing?
LOL... weird questions to ask? :cutecute:
Isn't this something like going to Haj and having all your sins forgiven ?
As explained by XP, at Haj the muslim is praying and performing his duties to Allah directly not through another human being. Do you see the big difference?
As a little note, I remember that in the community where I lived in, the Christians who did not go recently through the confession box were not allowed to receive the communion. This means that they could not queue and receive 'the Host', which is the blessed bread used during the service. It is usually placed by the priest on the tongue or on the palm of the Believers.
Does the blessed bread represent Jesus flesh?
Question: I've seen in some movies, and read in books dialogues that go on in a confession box where the person says "Forgive me father for I have sinned.. It's been 4 weeks since my last confession.. "
~ Is not "confessing your sins" considered a sin in itself?
~ Why does the priest need to know when the last time you confessed was?
~ Does the priest assume that this person has "sinned" the whole time he hasn't been confessing?
LOL... weird questions to ask? :cutecute:
Good questions and it makes sense.
Why a person will confess his sins to another person, it should be something person between him and his god.
Wudjab Hajj is something a bit differant than this
coz in Hajj we ask God for forgivness
we don't ask anybody to ask God to forgive our sins
it's between us and him :)
Milliardo Peacecraft
12-04-06, 11:15 AM
Does the blessed bread represent Jesus flesh?
Already explained here, iceTea: http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35814
Milliardo Peacecraft
12-04-06, 11:18 AM
Good questions and it makes sense.
Why a person will confess his sins to another person, it should be something person between him and his god.
This is the same question raised by Protestants, though if we look at it in a Biblical perspective the question doesn't make a lot of sense. Why? For one, God used men to give His message to His people. We can then ask rightly: why does God use men to give His message when He can very well give it Himself? But that is God's prerogative, in the same way then that when Jesus gave the commission to His Apostles to forgive and retain sins, it is His prerogative to do so. Catholics and Orthodox understand and do not question this.
MP, God's message is something general to all people on earth
but the relationship between a person and his god is something totally differant
it's private
it's not something that others should know..
Milliardo Peacecraft
12-04-06, 11:49 AM
MP, God's message is something general to all people on earth
but the relationship between a person and his god is something totally differant
it's private
it's not something that others should know..
For the record, priests are under a vow never to reveal what was confessed to anyone else, not even to a fellow priest, so what is said there, stays there.
Even though MP in the end they are human beings just like us so why are they taking the role of god??..it's the god's job to listen to us and forgive us
in this case what's the use of a god?
we should thank god and ask him to forgive us directly not through a middle person
there should not be a layer in between us and him
because he listens to us
he can even hear wut our mouths don't say
he's god almighty :) he is capable of everything
MP i will give you an example maybe it'll clear things up
for example
assume u've broken your mother's favourite vase
do u ask somebody to tell her u're sorry?
or do u go directly to her, appologise and ask for her forgivness?
in the end you know she has a big heart and will definately forgive you because she loves you like you love her
:) see the differance? :flower:
Milliardo Peacecraft
12-04-06, 12:53 PM
Even though MP in the end they are human beings just like us so why are they taking the role of god??..it's the god's job to listen to us and forgive us
in this case what's the use of a god?
Again, we go back to that principle: what's the use of God if He uses people to deliver His message? The same principle, whether it be for an individual or for a nation or group. The main point is that God uses people. Second, the role of the priest is to represent God here; he does not do the forgiving per se, but God forgiving through him. Sme principle again: God acting through people.
Milliardo Peacecraft
12-04-06, 12:55 PM
MP i will give you an example maybe it'll clear things up
for example
assume u've broken your mother's favourite vase
do u ask somebody to tell her u're sorry?
or do u go directly to her, appologise and ask for her forgivness?
The analogy doesn't exactly follow, since your mother is here, and God is not. Though again we go back to that premise: where is the basic refutation that such a thing is not allowed? Can you give me one passage which refutes God using people?
For one, God used men to give His message to His people. We can then ask rightly: why does God use men to give His message when He can very well give it Himself? But that is God's prerogative, in the same way then that when Jesus gave the commission to His Apostles to forgive and retain sins, it is His prerogative to do so. Catholics and Orthodox understand and do not question this.[/font]
So you agree that jesus is a human being and not son of God?
And yes God used prophets (human beings) to deliver the message to humans. Because it's logical since both are humans and can communicate and understand eachother, beside that it's stated that Allah can talk to humans in 3 ways: It is not given to any human being that Allâh should speak to him unless (it be) by Revelation, or from behind a veil, or (that) He sends a Messenger to reveal what He wills by His Leave. Verily, He is Most High, Most Wise .
Also Allah said about sending angels as messenger:
Say: "If there were on the earth, angels walking about in peace and security, We should certainly have sent down for them from the heaven an angel as a Messenger."
For the record, priests are under a vow never to reveal what was confessed to anyone else, not even to a fellow priest, so what is said there, stays there.
Remember that a priest is a human being, so he can make sins. We see that priest commit child abuse, we can also say that a priest could get drunk. Therefore, in that situation he could reveal anything.
The analogy doesn't exactly follow, since your mother is here, and God is not
MP, God is everywhere, true that humans can't see God but that doesn't mean God is not here or there.
Milliardo Peacecraft
13-04-06, 02:55 AM
So you agree that jesus is a human being and not son of God?
Where did I say He is merely human?
Milliardo Peacecraft
13-04-06, 02:56 AM
Remember that a priest is a human being, so he can make sins. We see that priest commit child abuse, we can also say that a priest could get drunk. Therefore, in that situation he could reveal anything.
I have yet to meet a priest who has revealed someone's sins to somebody else...
Milliardo Peacecraft
13-04-06, 02:57 AM
MP, God is everywhere, true that humans can't see God but that doesn't mean God is not here or there.
True, God is everywhere, but then again where is the basic refutation that you cannot confess to a priest?
Where did I say He is merely human?
Here:
what's the use of God if He uses people to deliver His message
God used men to give His message to His people
And you are right Jesus is merely human.
I have yet to meet a priest who has revealed someone's sins to somebody else...
That is not a logical thing to say.
What matter is the possibility of a priest reavling things, and since he is a human being who can make sins (like drinking alcohol) the that makes it possible regardless of you meeting him or not.
You can also say the same thing abut a christian who perform the poison test, meaning you won't believe it until you meet someone. But you are right in this one.
True, God is everywhere, but then again where is the basic refutation that you cannot confess to a priest?
Who you will trust, God or a human being (priest). If you know God is everywhere then it's logical to talk to your God instead of another human being like you.
Milliardo Peacecraft
13-04-06, 07:48 AM
And you are right Jesus is merely human.
Get a grip IceTea, I said God used men to reveal His message; I didn't specifically state Jesus, did I now?
Milliardo Peacecraft
13-04-06, 07:49 AM
Who you will trust, God or a human being (priest). If you know God is everywhere then it's logical to talk to your God instead of another human being like you.
You're not answering the issue, IceTea. Please show us any refutation at all that you cannot confess to a priest.
Milliardo Peacecraft
13-04-06, 07:50 AM
What matter is the possibility of a priest reavling things, and since he is a human being who can make sins (like drinking alcohol) the that makes it possible regardless of you meeting him or not.
Like I said, I have yet to meet or know a priest who does it. 2000 years of Church history and how many actually did it?
Get a grip IceTea, I said God used men to reveal His message; I didn't specifically state Jesus, did I now?
You didn't also specifically state other prophets, so it means your statment cover all prophets including prophet Jesus pbuh.
You shouldn't argue about this MP, sometimes you think you made a mistake but actually it's the truth.
Milliardo Peacecraft
13-04-06, 07:58 AM
You didn't also specifically state other prophets, so it means your statment cover all prophets including prophet Jesus pbuh.
Not necessarily; what I had in mind was actually the Old Testament prophets as well as the Apostles, not really Jesus Himself.
Like I said, I have yet to meet or know a priest who does it. 2000 years of Church history and how many actually did it?
But you agree the possibility of a priest revealing others sins is there since he is a human being who can make mistakes? Yes/No.
Milliardo Peacecraft
13-04-06, 08:00 AM
But you agree the possibility of a priest revealing others sins is there since he is a human being who can make mistakes? Yes/No.
No, because he is under a vow never to reveal any sin heard. To do so is not merely to break that vow, but to incur severe penalty for it.
How come we found priests who practice child abuse, is that included under the vow?
A priest is a human being, do you agree?
MP the fact that we can't see God does not mean he doesn't exists
if u make a mistake you go to the person himself and tell them u're sorry
you do not go to someone else to ask them to tell that person u're sorry
i am sure that my god exists as much as i'm sure that my mother exists right now!
see how much i believe in my God?
that's why you go to the church and pray
because he exists
if he's not around then there's no need of you to pray! am i right?
so because you 100% believe that he is there you pray for him
also when you make a mistake you should ask him for forgivness :)
and the fact that he sent people to deliver his message doesn't mean he can't deliver it himself
again i'm telling you God is capable of everything and i'm sure you know that
but he didn't come himself..why??
because this is a test for all human beings
that's why there are believers and there are people who haven't prayed to god not once
that's why there is heaven and there is hell
if god came himself to deliver his message to us
then there's no need for hell
we can all go to heaven!
Life is a one huge test to us all :)
Milliardo Peacecraft
13-04-06, 09:47 AM
How come we found priests who practice child abuse, is that included under the vow?
Yes, but you also have to remember that a priest committing such an act is doing sin foremost to himself first; secondly, the seal fo confession is such that there is a bsic trust between the confessor and the one who's confessing. Such a trust cannot easily be violated. Third, how many priests actually do child abuse? Please, do not raise such an issue and claim that it's done by many priests.
Milliardo Peacecraft
13-04-06, 09:54 AM
MP the fact that we can't see God does not mean he doesn't exists
Where did you get the idea that I implied that?
if u make a mistake you go to the person himself and tell them u're sorry
you do not go to someone else to ask them to tell that person u're sorry
The priest, in point of fact, does not merely represent God, but also of the community. The sinner does not merely violate what God commands, but what the community believes in. So there you can see why confession to a priest makes a lot of sense.
see how much i believe in my God?
No one's doubting that; but then what has that got to do with our discussion? As well, no one yet has answered where is the basic refutation for confession to a priest.
and the fact that he sent people to deliver his message doesn't mean he can't deliver it himself
again i'm telling you God is capable of everything and i'm sure you know that
Yes, but have you asked why he sends people to deliver His message when He can do it Himself?
The point is that a priest can break the vow, beside that if he get for example some mental problems then he can say things without control.
sweety i have explained already
but he didn't come himself..why??
because this is a test for all human beings
that's why there are believers and there are people who haven't prayed to god not once
that's why there is heaven and there is hell
if god came himself to deliver his message to us
then there's no need for hell
we can all go to heaven!
Life is a one huge test to us all :)
MP when u go to priests to tell them ur sins do they forgive these sins??do they decide instead of god??
of course not!
that's why we should directly talk to our God
if u think he doesn't listen to u then it'd mean u don't think he's there
look, you pray in the church right? do you see God? no! but you know he's there
but if you did something wrong why do you go to somebody else instead of God again??
If I am not mistaken , i believe this thread was started to understand more the concept of the confessional box , instead it turned into an Interrogation on Christianity and it's beliefs. I suggest you take the answers that are given to you and move on instead of doing exactly what the non-muslims do when we give them our answers. :)
Thank you Millardo for your answers..they were enlightening.
Nabhan i still didn't understand the point of Confessional Box that's why i insisted on asking Millardo to explain the point of it
btw she's very smart and polite :)
anyway thank you Millardo :flower: :)
How come many members address Millardo with 'she' and he is male according to the profile.
oops!:o is he??!!
umm the avatar is confusing :think:
Thanks Nabhan.
Regarding Milo - maybe it's his avatar ?
sheik-al-Tort
13-04-06, 07:48 PM
Good answer Milliardo - Ice TEa and Queen don't be so hostile
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.10 Copyright © 2012 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.