View Full Version : Christianity and Social Problems
Dear ES members,
I have been continuously asked by some non-muslim members on this wonderful website about polygamy in Islam. In addition to that, these members have also deliberately asked hundreds of questions about marrying 9 year olds being permitted.
Now although, many of the wonderful members, god bless them all, have constantly explained in detail these issues to these non-muslim members, but sadly, they never stopped these intolerable posts.
Therefore, I have decided to ask these non-muslims some simple questions that I, as a Muslim, really am quite curious about.
If you think Islam's teachings regarding polygamy and marriage are inappropriate, how come its your community and race that follows your religion suffers from serious social problems relevant to your doubts about Islam the most? Why don't the Muslim Countries suffer from such problems?
Some of the social problems I am referring to follow:
SEX AND CHURCHES
The surveys suggest that over the past decade, the pace of child-abuse allegations against American churches has averaged 70 a week.
Dr. Shupe suggests the 70 allegations-per-week figure actually could be higher, because underreporting is common. He discovered this in 1998 while going door to door in Dallas-Ft. Worth communities where he asked 1,607 families if they'd experienced abuse from those within their church. Nearly 4 percent said they had been victims of sexual abuse by clergy. Child sexual abuse was part of that, but not broken out, he says.
SOURCE (http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0405/p01s01-ussc.html)
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Pornography in the USA (A Christian Country)
At 12 billion a year, the revenues of the porn industry in the U.S. are bigger than the NFL, NBA and Major League Baseball combined. Worldwide porn sales are reported to be 57 billion
42% of songs on ten top-selling CDs in 1999 contained sexual content, 41% of which were "very explicit" or "pretty explicit."
* "The porn industry employs an excess of 12,000 people in California. In California alone the porn industry pays over $36 million in taxes every year."
Bill Lyon, a former lobbyist for the defense industry turned lobbyist for porn, as quoted by CBS News November 2003.
In December of 2000, the National Coalition to Protect Children and Families surveyed 5 Christian Campuses to see how the next generation of believers was doing with sexual purity:
48% of males admitted to current porn use
68% of males said they intentionally viewed a sexually explicit site at the school
* A study of university networks by Palisades Systems found searches for child pornography at 230 colleges nationwide. The research revealed that 42% of all searches on file-to-file sharing systems involved child or adult pornography. The study also found that 73% of movie searches were for pornography, 24% percent of image searches were for child pornography, and only 3% of the searches did not involve pornography or copyrighted materials.
SOURCE (http://www.blazinggrace.org/pornstatistics.htm)
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Now then, how come the Christians are suffering so severely?Not to mention those living in the strongest country on earth today! Is there something wrong with their religion? Why dont we see similar problems on similar scales in Islamic countries?
Also remember, these are just some of the stats and problems I shared, if you wish, I can share hundreds of issues more.
QUICK STAT:
If Islamic Law is implemented in the USA, will these social problems:
1. Decrease? 2. Increase? 3. Remain the same?
I hope all members, muslims and non-muslims, participate seriously so we could reach productive conclusions.
Are you sure you really want to go down this road, Sting ?
Good topic STING.
We always hear stories of Christian preists abusing kids, it's not strange knowing that a preist or nun not allowed to get married. I always wonder isn't this rule against basic human right.
Are you sure you really want to go down this road, Sting ?Sure he does ... :hmm: (http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showthread.php?p=658698#post658698)
amo_l_oman
09-04-06, 08:45 AM
In the end everything is up to the individual
the rule is there but
how many of you Muslim males would really marry a 10 years old girl knowing that this could just make her suffer [and am not talking about the prophet pbuh case, am asking a general Q]
and how many non Muslims here would become priests promising they'd forget sex forever
Milliardo Peacecraft
09-04-06, 08:45 AM
The problem has less to do with Christianity than with how Western society looks at religion in general. Since humanistic philosophy, many Western philosophers like Voltaire and Marx have questioned religion. Such thinking led to the moral breakdown within Western society. Did those have anything to do with Christianity, other than their disdain for it? No, so as you can see the blame lies more on the attitudes of such people and how it has trickled down to the masses.
Blue_Chi
09-04-06, 12:11 PM
The US is not a Christian country
In modern Muslim countries nobody gets married at the age of nine.
Getting married to more than one wife has become something very uncommon.
Unlike developed countries, we do not have proper statistics of crime rate, domestic violence, and 'attempts' to view pornography on the internet, people in the area are so desperate they use Blue Tooth to share porn - and you think that the US has issues?
we as mulsims know that there are consequences to our actions
we know that Allah is watching us from above and we know if we did something wrong we'll get punished unless we asked god for forgivness and never gone back to our sins
wut i understood in christianity they believe that jesus will take all their sins and get punished while they won't! that's why they do all these things with no fear of consequences
plz forgive me if my info is wrong
correct me and enlighten me if i'm wrong about this christianity belief :)
Milliardo Peacecraft
09-04-06, 12:49 PM
wut i understood in christianity they believe that jesus will take all their sins and get punished while they won't!
Note that this is mostly a Protestant view; majority of Christians (and the great majority would be Catholics, plus of course the Orthodox) dn't exactly see it that way. Yes, Jesus did pay the price for our sins, but we still have the responsibility for our actions.
nezitiC
09-04-06, 01:07 PM
Miliardo-p said "Jesus did pay the price for our sin"--
That's really an interesting and illogical comment
She also said "Since humanistic philosophy, many Western philosophers like Voltaire and Marx have questioned religion. Such thinking led to the moral breakdown within Western society..etc"
That's a good reply, and somehow still true.
MyReply: I think Our Muslim or Arab World has more or even social corruption, just the West are more open and show more statistics about it, while us show nothing at all, but Utopia. Therefore, to the Arab and Muslims public the society seems much less corrupted than the outside World.
Salam
sheik-al-Tort
09-04-06, 05:09 PM
The Muslim Council of Great Britain recently kicked up a hue and cry over child molestation of young boys at Madrasses in the UK. Similar reports in Pakistan have also surfaced in recent months. And then I suppose there is the brotherly love displayed between Sunnis and Shiites we should all be impressed by. And then again there are the flag burning, and hooligan behaviours displayed after the recent cartoon ruccous.
Sting as always you talk out of your backside and have nothing worth contributing. You continually bring Islam into disrepute by your puerile provocative utterings. I didn't really miss you you know.:)
Where is Sting, by the way ?
Lights the fuse and runs away.
[LIST=1]
The US is not a Christian country
Thanks for correcting me..Its a country with a Christian majority. In fact, overwheliming majority.
Getting married to more than one wife has become something very uncommon.
Are you suggesting it is wrong? Are you against it?
it happens everywhere i believe & maybe we dont have proper statistics about islamic countries
but then is alcohol, extra marital sex & gambling prohibited in christianity?
The Muslim Council of Great Britain recently kicked up a hue and cry over child molestation of young boys at Madrasses in the UK. Similar reports in Pakistan have also surfaced in recent months. And then I suppose there is the brotherly love displayed between Sunnis and Shiites we should all be impressed by. And then again there are the flag burning, and hooligan behaviours displayed after the recent cartoon ruccous.
SOURCE SOURCE SOURCE ??? :)
Provide one, otherwise I will have to make stories about u and share them here ;)
Sting as always you talk out of your backside and have nothing worth contributing. You continually bring Islam into disrepute by your puerile provocative utterings. I didn't really miss you you know.:)
sheiky, don't tell me u still believe I care even a bit about what you think about me or my actions?:rolleyes:
Getting married to more than one wife has become something very uncommon.
Are you trying to impress westerns by saying that?
Where is Sting, by the way ?
Lights the fuse and runs away.
The master of running away blames others of doing it !!! :D
Since u r here, why dont u answer the question I asked u tens of times? Check my signature for the question ;)
Blue_Chi
09-04-06, 10:58 PM
I am simply stating the facts, not my opinion. The US is not a Christian country, it is a secular state where each individual can practice his own religion as he wishes. It is NOT the Vatican.
When a Christian priest abuses a child he does not do it in the name of Christianity, unlike Muslims that bomb places in the name of Islam (e.g. EU office in Gaza).
Muslim societies have much more social problems than the US, but because of rooted corruption we do not have statistic or figures to show how messed up our society is.
Are you trying to impress westerns by saying that?
I'm glad you got impressed.
Blue_Chi
09-04-06, 11:22 PM
HITMAN, who are you talking to? :P
anyone who can answer it :cool:
I am simply stating the facts, not my opinion. The US is not a Christian country, it is a secular state where each individual can practice his own religion as he wishes. It is NOT the Vatican.
When a Christian priest abuses a child he does not do it in the name of Christianity, unlike Muslims that bomb places in the name of Islam (e.g. EU office in Gaza).
I am glad u noticed that a priest abusing a child does not do it in the name of Christianity, although he is a PRIEST :think: :D. But you never pointed the same idea to those who generalise and attack muslims because a small group blasts a bomb and kills innocent :o :hmm:
Muslim societies have much more social problems than the US, but because of rooted corruption we do not have statistic or figures to show how messed up our society is.
Alright so now we are supposed to believe there is more corruption in your society (muslim), but because we are so corrupted, we cant even proove it! I am confused :os
I don't want to bother you dear, but it would be really nice if you give me an example atleast. An example that your secret services have made you aware of.
Anyhow, I prefere not discussing corruption in islamic socities. All I want is an answer from all those who disrespect Islamic teachings. An answer to a simple question. If your religion and society is so great, how come you are suffering so severely? What might be the reason behind it? :think:
Hey HITMAN, can you ask them to answer the question in my signature too?! :(
Blue_Chi
09-04-06, 11:35 PM
HITMAN, OK, personally, I find the question irrelevant to the topic because the thread talks about some stats about a secular country and what would happen if we applied Islamic rules to it. Whether Christianity does prohibit alcohol, adultery, and gambling or not sounds very random to me, are you doing an abstract comparison of two religions? Why pick Christianity, what makes it so special?
it is related to the topic
majority in the west are christians & their religion does not prohibit those acts, hence, they have higher rate of social problems
Blue_Chi
09-04-06, 11:51 PM
I am glad u noticed that a priest abusing a child does not do it in the name of Christianity, although he is a PRIEST :think: :D. But you never pointed the same idea to those who generalise and attack muslims because a small group blasts a bomb and kills innocent :o :hmm:
You clearly DON'T get the point. The fact that somebody generalises does not make it right, your whole thread is based upon biased stereotype that a Christian priest abuses children because some person wrote on a website that 4% of the people he asked said that they experienced sexual abuse when this action is not endorsed by the Christian religion or the Christian public even when a priest does it. On the other hand, when Muslims bombed the EU office in Gaza Muslim's all around the world marched celebrating the event.
Alright so now we are supposed to believe there is more corruption in your society (muslim), but because we are so corrupted, we cant even proove it! I am confused http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/../boy-i/Smilies/Custom/ehv2.gif
LOL, examples (http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33099) are (http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14033) all (http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30084) over (http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29851) the (http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27560) Sabla (http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27560) my (http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34760) dear (http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/member.php?u=2192). (Last link is the most hilarious :P)
Blue_Chi
10-04-06, 12:04 AM
it is related to the topic
majority in the west are christians & their religion does not prohibit those acts, hence, they have higher rate of social problems
Your assumption is wrong. The majority in the west do not practice any religion. In a report that took 2 years by the University of Michigan (http://www.religioustolerance.org/rel_rate.htm) that concluded in 1997, about 50% of Americans said that religion was important in their lives, while 16% of people said the same in the UK, 14% in France, and 13% in Germany. ABCNEWS.COM (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/church_poll020301.html) published the results of a survey two years ago which found that less than about 38% of people went to Church at least once a week and the majority of these people (60+%) were over 65 years old.
To assume that the developed world is THE Christian world is wrong. Don't you people see how much the Christian faith is being mocked worldwide? How can the world be Christian.
amo_l_oman
10-04-06, 12:09 AM
Hey Einstein
though lately the STINGMAN brothers may not sound very credible due to their biased positions
they raised a valid point :
regardless of numbers, both the religions [or better their representatives] have failed in some basic issues
peace [Islam]
purity [Christianity]
blue_chi,
I am afraid you misunderstood me again. I did not tell u to give me examples of inappropriate things happening around our society. I can add like a hundred more to that. All societies have issues.
I suggest, as I did before, before reaching conclusions and starting to sharing ur precious thoughts, you read what we are exactly discussing.
I clearly wrote that some members have raised disrespectful questions on purpose several times although they were answered many times. So I asked them about issues directly and indirectly related to those questions they asked about Islam.
Anyhow, maybe you can answer us on behalf of them, why don't we see social problems on the same scale in Muslim societies? Why are the Western societies suffering so much from Sexual Abuse and Child Pornography if they were so civilised and we Muslims so inhumane?
I am just trying to find an answer from a practical dimension. Hope you could help. Also, please note, I am not saying that there has never been a similar case in our society, but its the size and frequency what I am curious about here. ;)
To assume that the developed world is THE Christian world is wrong. Don't you people see how much the Christian faith is being mocked worldwide? How can the world be Christian.
Alright..now should I conclude that the Western World is irreligious? Maybe if some of your friends confirm this.
So bluechi, what are all those structure we find all around the Western world called Churches? :mmhmm: Perhaps sites for sexual abuse as I suggested above :mmhmm: And who might all those evangelist be? :alien:
I am glad we are finally cracking the code with the help of brothr bluechi. Keep them coming dear. :cute:
Blue_Chi
10-04-06, 12:41 AM
Dear Lady Amo, my love for you is eternal. I attempted giving you a green rep point for calling me Einstein, but the system didn't let me saying that I have to spread love elsewhere.
STING,
I don't want to bother you dear, but it would be really nice if you give me an example atleast.
I did not tell u to give me examples.
Now back to more nonsense.
So bluechi, what are all those structure we find all around the Western world called Churches? :mmhmm: Perhaps sites for sexual abuse as I suggested above :mmhmm: And who might all those evangelist be? :alien:
I am not sure if anybody told you about this, but they have other stuff in the US like, mosques (http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/muslimlife/mosques.htm), temples (http://www.thaiembdc.org/directry/wat_e.htm), all sorts of jewish stuff (http://www.jewishamerica.com/ja/index.cfm), Scientology Churches (http://www.scientology.org/en_US/religion/groups/index.html), and many other articles of the human culture. I recently discovered that Oman is also a Christian country, they have MANY (http://www.nizwa.net/oman/omanvis/omanvis6.html) churches in that country.
Blue_Chi, are you trying to say that should the west have followed christianity & were christian states, the rate of social problems would have been lesser?
I think it's weak to mock any religion just because people mock yours...and as blue chi said, lets not pretend that the islamic world doesnt have social issues. Most of the people who preach about islam drink , watch porn , sleep around and god knows what other disgusting stuff they do behind the scenes.
People are failing in the islamic world to follow the exact teachings of the Quran and sunna and so I don't think anyone has the right to really mock christianity.
Blue_Chi
10-04-06, 12:52 AM
Blue_Chi, are you trying to say that should the west have followed christianity & were christian states, the rate of social problems would have been lesser?
No. I am saying that it is wrong to assume that the US is a Christian country.
ok lets agree on that, although majority are christians, i agree it isnt a christian country
so should it have been christian, were the social problems on a smaller scale?
bluechi,
I see someone is trying to use his lying skills to change what I said :rolleyes: . But thats not gonna work with me.
I did not tell u to give me examples of inappropriate things happening around our society
Now unless you are suffering from some disease that restricts you from reading complete sentences, I wonder how come u missed the part in bold and red above. I hope you dont get all color blind on us this time :eh:
Blue_Chi
10-04-06, 01:00 AM
HITMAN, I am not a Christian scholar to evaluate the impact of the Christian religion on a society that I do not belong to.
ok then lets wait for a scholar to enlighten us
Blue_Chi
10-04-06, 01:03 AM
STING, you want me to quote the whole post?
Alright so now we are supposed to believe there is more corruption in your society (muslim), but because we are so corrupted, we cant even proove it! I am confused :os
I don't want to bother you dear, but it would be really nice if you give me an example atleast.
I am afraid you misunderstood me again. I did not tell u to give me examples of inappropriate things happening around our society.
Please try to make some sense next time you post.
Blue_Chi
10-04-06, 01:04 AM
ok then lets wait for a scholar to enlighten us
We are waiting.
I think it's weak to mock any religion just because people mock yours...and as blue chi said, lets not pretend that the islamic world doesnt have social issues.
Aha..And its very brave and tough to support them :rolleyes:
Most of the people who preach about islam drink , watch porn , sleep around and god knows what other disgusting stuff they do behind the scenes.
Statistically speaking that is highly likely. But as I said, frequency and size matters here. And we are just trying to find why some suffer more from others. I believe its their modified religion. And expresing my views should not be critisized if their posts are not ;)
People are failing in the islamic world to follow the exact teachings of the Quran and sunna and so I don't think anyone has the right to really mock christianity.
Tell me about it :lift:
Blue Chi = 1
Sting = 0
Continue :p
blue_chi,
I will try this one more time, this thread is about social suffering and "corruptions" in their religious believes and as a result in their social lives..etc
You said, we have corruptions too, and stupid me, I assumed u were sticking to the thread's topic, so I asked you, to give me examples of similar corruptions to Sexual Abuse in CHURCHES and so on. You gave me examples of general corruptions.
I hope its clear now.
hint: REAAAD
LoL Lym
I will surely give him the lead for doing a great job of changing the main topic of the thread. Just as my friends wudjy used to do :)
the thing that you don't see that they have stoped posting here.....( wal labib bal ishara yafham ) ;)
I believe its their modified religion.
The Quran and sunna might not be modified to date but their interpertation are always modified and altered which is why we have so many muslims saying that one thing is halal and others saying that it's not. Muslims have failed to make sense in what god has sent to us which is why we the muslims have so many social issues going on as well.
( wal labib bal ishara yafham ) ;)
not everyone is smart like you Marvel ;)
guys...
We can't blame christianity if the followers do not follow the teachings properly, the same goes for Islam and muslims
Both religions forbid adultrey and what ever causes the social problems... It's all about how strongly you hold onto your religion, if all christians follow the right teachings that are stated by Jesus PBUH in the bible, then the christians won't have social problems, and again, the same goes for Islam and muslims...
The thing that makes a human being not to commit a sin, is knowing that he/she will be punished for this sin... and it's too bad that many christians have the "I believe in Jesus, I do wutever I want and will go to heaven, cause he paid for us on the cross" thought..... If we check the bible, prophet Jesus PBUH is quoted many times mentioning that it's hard to enter the kingdom of God (which is heaven), and saying that he loves who loves him, and who loves him will follow his teachings...
i hope we get a scholar answering me if christianity prohibits: alcohol, gambling...etc :(
maybe monotheism was right about the messiah
the thing that you don't see that they have stoped posting here.....( wal labib bal ishara yafham ) ;)
Yes Marvel, they probably were impressed by their substitutes. Anyhow, thanks for pointing out. I will try not to waste my time discussing the issues with my own people. It is not fair that they do not get a change to represent themselves.
The Quran and sunna might not be modified to date but their interpertation are always modified and altered which is why we have so many muslims saying that one thing is halal and others saying that it's not. Muslims have failed to make sense in what god has sent to us which is why we the muslims have so many social issues going on as well.
so nabs, can i say that you are saying that we should just watch what they are doing and stay still........:think:
i'm not that kind who realy like to get into these kind of issues but my blood was boiling........so what we can do is stop the cause of the problem no religon attacks at each other then the problem will be sattled!
The Quran and sunna might not be modified to date but their interpertation are always modified and altered which is why we have so many muslims saying that one thing is halal and others saying that it's not. Muslims have failed to make sense in what god has sent to us which is why we the muslims have so many social issues going on as well.
Shockingly, I agree with your post there! And I agree there are social and other problems in our society. But please do not compare it to what they suffer from.
We must thank Allah that although many of us have stopped following his last message sufficiently, we are still doing ok.
Anyhow, if u had read my opening post, u would have noticed that I am trying to discuss the social problem in the Western (Christian) societies, not those in ours. So try to stick to the topic please. I do not wish to compare socitied here. I wish to discuss the reasons behind the failure of one. I suggest you open another thread about social issue and reasons behind them in our socities.
Thank you and have a good night :)
I am not comparing , I am blaming muslims even MORE than I blame the west cause we have clear guide lines yet we still have problems and issues. They might not have clear guide lines (based on our beliefs) which is why I excuse the corruption they have but for muslims to drink , sleep around , watch porn even though the Quran and sunna clearly state that it's haram..well.. I don't even know what to say to that.
I am on topic sting unless you are dedicating this thread to attack a religion then well as you know that is not allowed in sabla. Both sides must be discussed to keep things balanced and fair. :)
guys...
We can't blame christianity if the followers do not follow the teachings properly, the same goes for Islam and muslims
Both religions forbid adultrey and what ever causes the social problems... It's all about how strongly you hold onto your religion, if all christians follow the right teachings that are stated by Jesus PBUH in the bible, then the christians won't have social problems, and again, the same goes for Islam and muslims...
The thing that makes a human being not to commit a sin, is knowing that he/she will be punished for this sin... and it's too bad that many christians have the "I believe in Jesus, I do wutever I want and will go to heaven, cause he paid for us on the cross" thought..... If we check the bible, prophet Jesus PBUH is quoted many times mentioning that it's hard to enter the kingdom of God (which is heaven), and saying that he loves who loves him, and who loves him will follow his teachings...
At last a good relevent post :)
I agree with you Braiki, but the same actually applies for other religions. But as u said, the followers should be blamed here. Be it Muslims or others.
On the other hand, how can the Christians follow their religion if they have no source left? Or too many sources left should I say ;) ?! I hope you understand what I mean.
So now, since we identified one probable reason, what can the solutions be? To find the original bible and burn all the modified versions? Or maybe introduce the Message of Islam more publicly to our Western brothers? After all, it is we Muslims duty to convey Allah's last message to those who never got it. To those who never heard of it. If they accept or reject that is another thing which is their free will.
so nabs, can i say that you are saying that we should just watch what they are doing and stay still........:think:
What I am saying is that we should watch ourselves first and fix our own social problems. :)
Yes Nabhan, its sad that we Muslims fail to follow our religion although its crystal clear. But I prefere concentrating on the issue of the Western World as it is too out of control already.
As you said, they have no guidance to follow, so what is the solution? Should we allow them to do what they want to do? Is that really a good idea to let free the ignorant and tie down the knowledgable?
After all, it is we Muslims duty to convey Allah's last message to those who never got it. To those who never heard of it. If they accept or reject that is another thing which is their free will.
and that's what we're trying to do here :)
thank you
I am not comparing , I am blaming muslims even MORE than I blame the west cause we have clear guide lines yet we still have problems and issues. They might not have clear guide lines (based on our beliefs) which is why I excuse the corruption they have but for muslims to drink , sleep around , watch porn even though the Quran and sunna clearly state that it's haram..well.. I don't even know what to say to that.
I am on topic sting unless you are dedicating this thread to attack a religion then well as you know that is not allowed in sabla. Both sides must be discussed to keep things balanced and fair. :)
well nabs we are still humans....even if we are muslims....we can see many ppl are choicen the wrong path but believe many of them get back to thire minds afterwood....
at last i'm sorry.......as long as we still learning many things from this world....
What I am saying is that we should watch ourselves first and fix our own social problems. :)
I used to think the same way sometime back, but then I realised, that doesn't work. We cant get busy with each others while others degrade us. And if that was the right thing, we would not have had Islam spread around the world today. The message of Islam was successfully spread around the world while minorities within were on the wrong path.
Anyhow, I do not expect you to change the way you think, so why dont u apply that to yourself because I, and I know many other, refuse to accept your way, just as you reject ours. So go and implement your system on yourself and on your close friends. Show us the result, we might get impressed and start following you.
Blue_Chi
10-04-06, 01:47 AM
I am replying one last time because I just received a red reputation point from STING, which I think is very stupid. If you read all of my posts above, I did not praise the Christian faith in a single post, nor did I say that I love America, or that I think that what they do is right. It is just annoying to realise how stupid some members can be in here, my whole argument was about the wrong assumption of the American identity as a Christian country and that it is a secular state. I was called a lier, colour blind, and I do not know what, by a very rude ignorant Sabla member.
Blue_Chi, again you are using your skills ;) I sent you that red rep only after I received one insulting one from you. BTW, you should know its not allowed to share rep comments. So stick to the topic as no one is intrested in knowing what rep comments u get ;)
I am sorry we failed to realise that your main concern was that America is not a Christian country. I know we are not as smart as you, but I think we misunderstood you only because you were trying so hard to convince us that we suffer more than them and we have more social problems than them. And of course, that is not true dear :) Next time, talk more about your arguments so we manage to point them out easily.
It was nice having you here and hope to see you in another thread :)
Milliardo Peacecraft
10-04-06, 01:59 AM
but then is alcohol, extra marital sex & gambling prohibited in christianity?
Too much gambling and alcohol is prohibited; extra marital affairs are prohibited under any circumstance.
Blue_Chi
10-04-06, 02:04 AM
STING, not only that you are extremely ignorant and do not make any sense in your discussions, but you lack the least amount of manners and online etiquette. I cannot believe that you had the guts to actually give me a red rep after insulting me simply because you cannot make sense when you discuss. You live in delusional state of mind even though members posted (http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showpost.php?p=659320&postcount=28) in this about your 'very credibility'.
I know we are not as smart as you,
I'm not really very smart, you are just below average, that's the problem.
Milliardo Peacecraft, can you show us that from the bible?
im interested to know whats "too much"
Milliardo Peacecraft
10-04-06, 02:55 AM
Milliardo Peacecraft, can you show us that from the bible?
im interested to know whats "too much"
The Bible against being drunk:
Now the works of the flesh are obvious: immorality, impurity, licentiousness,
idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, rivalry, jealousy, outbursts of fury, acts of selfishness, dissensions, factions, occasions of envy, drinking bouts, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21)
let us conduct ourselves properly as in the day, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in promiscuity and licentiousness, not in rivalry and jealousy. (Romans 13:13)
The Bible against extra marital affairs:
"You shall not commit adultery." (Exodus 20:14)
He who commits adultery has no sense; he who does it destroys himself. (Proverbs 6:32)
"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matthew 5:27-28)
blue_chi,
I will try this one more time, this thread is about social suffering and "corruptions" in their religious believes and as a result in their social lives..etc
You said, we have corruptions too, and stupid me, I assumed u were sticking to the thread's topic, so I asked you, to give me examples of similar corruptions to Sexual Abuse in CHURCHES and so on. You gave me examples of general corruptions.
I hope its clear now.
hint: REAAAD
You mean like this ?
h (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4084951.stm)ttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4084951.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4084951.stm)
or like this ?
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/legal/article352827.ece (http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/legal/article352827.ece)
At last a good relevent post :)
I agree with you Braiki, but the same actually applies for other religions. But as u said, the followers should be blamed here. Be it Muslims or others.
On the other hand, how can the Christians follow their religion if they have no source left? Or too many sources left should I say ;) ?! I hope you understand what I mean.
So now, since we identified one probable reason, what can the solutions be? To find the original bible and burn all the modified versions? Or maybe introduce the Message of Islam more publicly to our Western brothers? After all, it is we Muslims duty to convey Allah's last message to those who never got it. To those who never heard of it. If they accept or reject that is another thing which is their free will.
And you are doing quite a stellar job in that department !
:hyper: :color: :p
nezitiC
10-04-06, 04:07 AM
To Sting: Hmm, Are You Sure in Oman or The GCC have less social problems? Maybe we have more security.
In America specifically, The Evangelical Christians control the state, there are about 60 millions of them in America, and they have a big effect in the elections, Good example = Bush. Having Social problems within the society parallel to the Evangelical Society is just a good advantage to have a stronger control. Even Though most liberals, Environment-lovers, and great every-weekend-protesters, or "open-minded" people, as you may call, are opposing Bush, and the US Government and its policies; They don't really vote, they only talk, and it's easy to buy their votes. I think having such social problems are not that bad after all, they are just being used by political parties to serve their election campaigns.
By the way, is there really a society nowadays without social problems, in this new brave world, Globalization? It's easy for you [Sting] to blame it on the West, but the West is, as Milliardo-P explained to you, are in the aftermath of Marxism and still under the influence of Secularism, and not to mention Zionist's Media Control, and their main Protocols.
Just Open your eyes, and look at yourself [Sting], and the houses around you at least;
Q: Do you think by blaming the West and criticising them rudely or aggressively for their Social Problems and more;
will stop your nieghbor's or your community's boys, that you are living in, acting like homosexuals and trying to harasse young kids for fun? [ the term used; 7alboos, 9bay;funny haa!]
Or will stop a guy who parks behind any house of your community to date a girl?
Or will stop a poor man from his addiction to glues?
Or will stop that woman who stands in front of your mosque begging for money every Dusk's Prayer?
Or will stop a taxi driver from getting drunk, at a bar behind the shadows of your community,every thursday night or midnight because there's nothing else he can do?
Or you are going to cause an industrial revolution and stop manufacturing only Soaps and Plastic Toys?Well, Salam...
Bluechi, I am sorry if I hurt you. Have a good day and see you around :)
wudjab, that is a good example. But what you must understand you can't compare a Madrassa (School) to Churches (Mosques in Islam). Anyhow, let me clarify myself again.
I never claimed that we do not suffer from social problems AT ALL. Everybody does and it is idiotic to say theat you do and I do not.
What i need from you is to answer me why do you suffer on such a large scale from crimes such as Child Pornography and Sexual Abuse in general on such a large scale? You questioned our religion, I questioned your religion and society as a whole.
I will soon post the stats about children been born without being sure who their father is in your society. According to some articles I read, the numbers are so huge that I was shocked to my core :(
SUMMARY:
Yes, we also suffer from social problem, but on a much smaller scale than what you suffer from.
Yes, we also have stuff like child and sexual abuse, but on a much smaller scale and on a much less inhumane way.
Finally, this thread is trying to find the reasons behind your suffer. We are helping you find why there are 70+ sexual abuse cases in ur churches. We are trying to find the reasons behind it so you could eliminate it and live a respectful life :)
Help us help u wudjy.
nezitiC,
I will respond to you later dear in detail, if needed, but in short, may you specify where did I blame the West for what we suffer from? I blamed the West for THEIR social problems just as I blame my people for our social problems.
I am not comparing two, as clearly, they have crossed the limits of human decency, and we also might be heading there, but as I said thats another topic and I prefere sticking to the problems of the west and the reasons behind them.
Salaam
SUMMARY:
Yes, we also have stuff like child and sexual abuse, but on a much smaller scale and on a much less inhumane way.
Finally, this thread is trying to find the reasons behind your suffer. We are helping you find why there are 70+ sexual abuse cases in ur churches. We are trying to find the reasons behind it so you could eliminate it and live a respectful life :)
Thousands of Muslim schoolchildren are being physically and sexually abused by their religious teachers every year, according to a report into the Islamic education system in this country.
SUMMARY:
Right ... the scale of the abuse is no comparison.
nezitiC
10-04-06, 01:08 PM
Now although, many of the wonderful members, god bless them all, have constantly explained in detail these issues to these non-muslim members, but sadly, they never stopped these intolerable posts.
Therefore, I have decided to ask these non-muslims some simple questions that I, as a Muslim, really am quite curious about.
First: You are asking questions to non-muslims, and that's very general, and in fact you asked Christians, plus those who attack Islam, most of them if not all have barely been to Church maybe or being realy christians, or know nothing about their religion. Therefore, your Thread Introduction needs revision. And, if you don't like those intolerable posts, and I know who usually post them, just "Ignore" them and I should have referred them as it not them, it = a creature. And, believe me those "it" are not really religious, and are mostly secularists.
but in short, may you specify where did I blame the West for what we suffer from? I blamed the West for THEIR social problems just as I blame my people for our social problems.
Second: Maybe I used the wrong word, I should not have said Blame, but instead, Criticising was enough, and from my whole post you only picked that word? man, your short response is completely incomplete.
Anyway, Salam..[x]
adultery i agree with you
but you mean that if i drink a whole bottle without getting drunk then its fine? is that what the messiah taught the christians?
Are you talking about child abuse of this kind Sting ?
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1§ion=0&article=80545&d=10&m=4&y=2006
Reports of child abuse cases have been increasing in the media during the past few years, revealing the shortage or even outright lack of laws and procedures that protect children from their abusers.
ome steps have been taken to establish shelters for abused women and children and discussions have been organized on the issue at high official levels. Basic necessary measures, such as police intervention and punitive laws, have yet to be implemented.
A major problem is that the rights of the parents are granted priority over the rights of the child. The father, who is more often the perpetrator of domestic abuse, is also favored under the current system in accordance with social norms.
Intervention by authorities is virtually nonexistent. Police do not have the authority to enter homes and bring abused children under public protection. A legal guardian’s permission is required to medically treat children, and, according to law, wives cannot report domestic abuse by husbands to the police.
...
and heres the kicker
According to Islamic law, a father who kills his child is not eligible for the death penalty, but exemptions are made by the state in particularly egregious cases.
Depending on the circumstances of this case, the father is likely to serve a jail sentence of a number of years if he’s found guilty. The mother may receive monetary compensation for the death of her daughter.
SUMMARY:
Right ... the scale of the abuse is no comparison.
Jack you are terrible in math :hmm:
Each source given by wudjab quoted different things. One said hundreds per year, and the other said thousdand of students but never mentioned the time scale.
Anyhow, lets assume for a second that those numbers are accurate, although no formal research has been conducted, 70+ being sexually abused is still quite high.
70 x 52 (No. of weeks in a year) would be like 3640 per year. And remember, this is only the numer cases being "reported" in the churches ONLY in America. And let me not go down to the porn busines that many lonely people I know heavily depend on ;)
Anyhow, a very good observations :)
[And, believe me those "it" are not really religious, and are mostly secularists.
Do you think we do not know this? My best friend is a Christian ;) The problem is, everybody, including all the mods, know that these "its" are not serious. They do not represent anything or anyone. We all know why do they come here.
Despite that, nothing has been done yet by the mods to stop their disrespectful posts only because these ignorant "its" have mastered the game of manipulating the rules.
[COLOR=Navy]Second: Maybe I used the wrong word, I should not have said Blame, but instead, Criticising was enough, and from my whole post you only picked that word? man, your short response is completely incomplete.
I am sorry but I was extremely busy at that time. And in fact, I have simply decided not to post anything off topic. I know many do not like my topic, but its my choice, right? If someone is against it, he/she should either report it or simply ignore it. Unless of course, things balance a bit around ES ;)
Anyhow, again, you suggested that I blamed the West for everything and all the social problems, which I did not. I blame them for what they suffer from. I blame them for modifiying their books and teachings and not following the truth.
It's easy for you [Sting] to blame it on the West, but the West is,
Hope its clear.
Salaam
Thanks to those who shared individual cases around Muslims world which simply prove my claims right about the scale of abuses being tiny.
Now lets expose the shocking truth:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Child abuse, including sexual exploitation of children, is a problem reaching epidemic proportions in the U.S. Many sociologists believe that the abused child often goes on to become a violent criminal, alcoholic, welfare case or even another child abuser.
Image edited
"A crippled seven-year-old child, whose abuse apparently included having the words 'I cry' burned into his back with a cigarette, was wheeled into a Harris County (Texas) courtroom in a crib today.... The boy, described by one witness as 'bright, but a loner' prior to his injuries, had suffered a ruptured colon from something inserted into his anus, and the ensuing infections resulted in brain damage." -- Washington Post, May 5, 1977.
Image Edited
Children deprived of physical affection are more vulnerable to pimps and kiddy-porn peddlers. Many runaways go straight to the streets.
Image Edited
Please READ MORE (http://www.violence.de/prescott/hustler/article.html)
------------------------------------------------------------------
Child Abuse Statistics:
Reported cases of child sexual abuse reached epidemic proportions, with a reported 322 percent increase from 1980 to 1990.
Rate of child abuse by race:
White -->(Christian Majority) = 51%
African American -->(Christian Majority) = 25%
Hispanic -->(Christian Majority) = 15%
American Indian/Alaska Natives-->(Non-Christian Majority) = 2%
Asian/Pacific Islanders-->(Non-Christian Majority) = 1%
More shocking statistics (http://www.prevent-abuse-now.com/stats.htm)
Now that, it is clear that the society of our friends, like some members in this site, is severely sufferring, should we not work harder to help them open their eyes to the truth and accept it? Till when will these ignorant people make the innocent suffer?
LETS HELP THEM HELP THEMSELVES :)
Jack you are terrible in math :hmm:
Each source given by wudjab quoted different things. One said hundreds per year, and the other said thousdand of students but never mentioned the time scale.
Anyhow, lets assume for a second that those numbers are accurate, although no formal research has been conducted, 70+ being sexually abused is still quite high.
70 x 52 (No. of weeks in a year) would be like 3640 per year. And remember, this is only the numer cases being "reported" in the churches ONLY in America. And let me not go down to the porn busines that many lonely people I know heavily depend on ;)
Anyhow, a very good observations :)
Good thing you are not designing computer systems, because with faulty logic like that, it would definitely cause a system crash.
The first link was about abuse in Pakistani madrassas , the second in the UK.
Now if you want even more dramatic results, you can multiply 70 x 365 (the days in the year) and get an even larger number like 25,550. And that would make your arguments even more impressive.
Totally wrong, but none the less impressive.
Now if you want even more dramatic results, you can multiply 70 x 365 (the days in the year)
Now this is very very funny :D :D :D
My dear friend, do you know why did I multipy it by the number of weeks and not the number of days? Anyhow, thanks god u r not in Oman anymore. Such calculation mistakes can cause serious problems in our "Developing Country"
I noticed you had to dig way back to April 05, 2002 to find this article.
Find something more current.
The people responsible are being punished.
Whats happening your your community ?
Monkiette
10-04-06, 08:30 PM
The Muslim Council of Great Britain recently kicked up a hue and cry over child molestation of young boys at Madrasses in the UK. Similar reports in Pakistan have also surfaced in recent months. And then I suppose there is the brotherly love displayed between Sunnis and Shiites we should all be impressed by. And then again there are the flag burning, and hooligan behaviours displayed after the recent cartoon ruccous.
Sting as always you talk out of your backside and have nothing worth contributing. You continually bring Islam into disrepute by your puerile provocative utterings. I didn't really miss you you know.:)
Wht do u mean sunni's and shiites? are you refering to sheia's?
wudjab, I would have wasted my time just to add to the limited knowdlge of the ignorant (Teaching is my hobby). However, since u did not ask me that before, I will not waste my time. You realised to ask me this only when u realised how stupid the argument about 70 x 52 was?
BTW, will u answer the question in my signature?
sheik-al-Tort
10-04-06, 11:57 PM
Sting the answer to your rather trite question in your autograph depends on your religious beliefs. I suspect yours are nothing more than a cloak of convenience like the Panama flag, so you can issue forth with your rather infantile bile.
Picked on a lot were you?
Blah Blah Blah dear sheik,
See brother, you know the truth in your heart, just for once think about it without being biased, ignorant, stubborn and yourself ;)
Don't tell me "depends" whatever argument. You tell me, I am asking you, computer-to-computer, who is your god and who is your messenger? I dont think the answer needs more than 2 words.
it is related to the topic
majority in the west are christians & their religion does not prohibit those acts, hence, they have higher rate of social problems
I found an interesting comment about this posted much earlier on :
its very sad to see u mr-desert sloath....showing so much hatred against other religions..
and making false allegations, like Jews promoting gambling and homosexualtiy...etc...r u sure there arent moslem gamblers and rapers...etc...and if there are does that mean Islam is promoting them?
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