Has God desired enmity between Christians and Muslims?

[sheik-al-Tort]

I thought this was a rather good piece written by a jesuit priest on a recent trip to Istanbul where he was invited to speak at a celebration of the prophet Muhammed, by muslims.

'''When Muslims seek to identify their natural allies in affirming divine values in the modern world, it is often sincere, believing Christians who come to the fore. The roots of the natural affinity that should exist between Muslims and Christians go back to the very Scriptural origins of Islam, where the Qur’an states: “The closest in affection to [Muslims] are those who say: ‘We are Christians,’ for among them are priests and monks and they are not arrogant’” (Qur’an 5: 82).


This perception of divinely-willed friendship and cooperation between Muslims and Christians was expressed on the Christian side when the Catholic Church, in the Second Vatican Council decree Nostra Aetate, urged Christians and Muslims to move beyond the suspicions and conflicts of the past in order to work together to carry out a common mandate: “For the benefit of all,” the decree states, “Let them together preserve and promote peace, liberty, social justice, and moral values” (Nostra Aetate, 3).


In this perspective, the long history of conflict, oppression, violence, and war between Christians and Muslims must be understood as acts perpetrated by those who failed to live according to the teaching of their respective faiths or else the misguided actions of those whose theological vision was too narrow to recognize God’s work of grace within the other community.




If you want to read the whole transcript - here is the link

http://puffin.creighton.edu/jesuit/dialogue/documents/articles/michel_muslim_christian_relations.htm

[NicoBambi]

Has God desired enmity between Christians and Muslims?
:Shock::Shock: are u ok ?

[sheik-al-Tort]

It is a rhetorical question Nico old fruit. Of course the answer is no

[amo_l_oman]

The problem with establishing a platform of dialogue with other religions (Christians in particular) is that we must come to a compromise, meaning that we must leave aside some 'ancient' aspects of our belief, giving space to bida [innovation].

Let's say we decide to do it : as you noticed many times, we don't have a Pope or at least a figure who resembles him, and would be difficult anyway due to the sects issue.
Once we accept a series of innovations we should put also a limit to them not to go too far but who's gonna decide which and how ?
Organisations like OIC ?
I have my doubts.

[sheik-al-Tort]

I don't think the dialogue should have as its goal a single view of God.
It seems to me that different traditions, even with the same roots, like Islam,Christianity and Judaism should remain free to be distinctive.

One would hope that better understanding would lead to peaceful respect and possibly even love for each other, though in the light of today, that seems a bit far fetched. Maybe though, that should be the ultimate goal.

[amo_l_oman]

As you very well know is not so simple
Just take the convert example :

now you [civilised people] come to us[uncivilised people] saying that this and others are barbaric practices
and infact in Afghan Constitution there is already a great contradiction : if am not mistaken is stated at the same time that
1)the country follows Sharia
2)freedom of religion is basic

which of the two should be cut in order to make dialogue easy ?

[jack]

As you very well know is not so simple
Just take the convert example :

now you [civilised people] come to us[uncivilised people] saying that this and others are barbaric practices
and infact in Afghan Constitution there is already a great contradiction : if am not mistaken is stated at the same time that
1)the country follows Sharia
2)freedom of religion is basic

which of the two should be cut in order to make dialogue easy ?Is this what you are trying to say?

Taliban-Lite (http://divedesk.com/blog/img/tali-lite.gif)

Within limits ... of course ;)

[sheik-al-Tort]

Amo do you maintain then that mainstream Islam sanctions killing a person for becomming a christian? If so then clearly we have a long way to go. However others have already confirmed that there is nothing in the Koran that supports this kind of medieval justice.


Jack - very funny!

[Arabian Princess]

Good thread Shiek.

Well, I agree with you that a dialog should be there and like you said that Dialog shouldnt compromise our sole beleif on god.

Amo, I did not understand the Bida side. When I come talk to a chiristian, I am not asking him to follow what I beleive in, and I dont expect him to ask me to follow what he beleives in. Its a conversation that makes each of us respect and understand the other.

[amo_l_oman]

but is in Hadeeth [mr p kindly don't start jumping]

jack

is easy to make fun of something you [western world] strongly wanted but then said 'oh well is your life, up to you'

[amo_l_oman]

When I come talk to a chiristian, I am not asking him to follow what I beleive in, and I dont expect him to ask me to follow what he beleives in. Its a conversation that makes each of us respect and understand the other.

Yes beautiful but is a lil bit like love and marriage

When it comes to the practical side of things, life starts to be more complicated [just remember the 'should i wish you a merry Xmas or not ?']

[sheik-al-Tort]

Amo are you being deliberately obstructive today?

[amo_l_oman]

Tort dearest

if for you is enough to think that the sky is blue and birds are singing then fine
But in case you invite me for dinner [with mrs. Tort obviously] be prepared not to choose a pork based menu and not to drink in front of me
and not even sure that being single, i can go out with someone
i'll email Qaradawi

[sheik-al-Tort]

Sorry Amo just off to the pub - goodnight

[amo_l_oman]

not sure i can exchange views via internet with a guy who goes to pub

things start changing anyway (http://www.asianews.it/view.php?l=en&art=5785)

[sheik-al-Tort]

I'm back 'hic'!

Don't be so judgemental! :)

[Arabian Princess]

OK, lets take the thread to the direction amo is trying to bring ..

Shiek Altort, what amo is saying that we have differences and the quetsion is wether we would accept it or not. For example, would you be offended if we met and you brought forward your hands and I apologised for not shaking hands with strangers?

Would you be offended if we sat over for dinner and I asked you to make sure that you are supposed to bring meat butchered in a halal way?

I am just trying to paint a pic here, wether insisting on certain standereds would affect this relationship you are talking about.

(you are free to ask simmiler questions to test the our feelings too, I couldnt bring chrisitian examples because I am not fammiler with them)

[sheik-al-Tort]

Arabian Princess - I would be very careful to ensure that I did not offend, if i invited you to my house, by offeirg you food that was not in keeping with your religious rules, just as I woud not offer a pork pie to you or a jew, or beef to a hindu.

However if your custom considered it ok to execute someone for becoming an atheist or joiining another faith, then I would take issue with you on moral grounds.

[Arabian Princess]

Shiek, can we leave the excustion part aside since its not part of what me a practicing muslim and you a practicing christian would encounter when meeting each other.

What I am trying to say, we can argue all what we can about the teachings of our religions as long as you respect that I beleive strongly in whatever my religion teaches and I respect whatever your religion teaches. No pinpointing to issues that you and I might not have the right answer to.

(I hope I am not diverting your thread away from its main topic?)

[amo_l_oman]

What about this (http://today.reuters.com/news/NewsArticle.aspx?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=2006-03-30T142909Z_01_L29661742_RTRUKOC_0_US-ALBANIA-TERESA.xml)
mr Sheikh

[wudjab]

Thanks Amo.

I was debating posting that.

What doesn't IRK mosles these days ?

[amo_l_oman]

Well allow me to say that this is much more stupid and barbaric :

Jerusalem - In a tough break for the children of Orthodox Jewish families, a former grand rabbi of Israel has urged parents to amputate their dolls to avoid the perils of idolatry.

Basing the move on a Biblical ban on the possession of idols, Mordechai Eliyahu, a Sephardic rabbi, broadcast his edict on a religious radio station calling for an arm or a leg to be dismembered.

In the case of a teddy bear or other stuffed animals, the children will see their beloved toys lose an ear or an eye instead.

"It is very important that these toys do not remain intact so as to remove the element of idolatry," said Eliyahu.
IOL (http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=3&art_id=qw1143377820185B253)

[jack]

Well allow me to say that this is much more stupid and barbaric :Well allow me to say that this.

Don't get stuck on stupid ... regardless of the religion that promotes the stupidity.

btw: amo i've converted to Islam and have an opening for a wife ... you game?

[amo_l_oman]

Just cause comes from jewsh then it can be accepted ?

I do not have any intention to get married, thx for offer.

[jack]

Just cause comes from jewsh then it can be accepted ?Let me put it another way.

If _______ (insert ANY religion) promotes something stupid ... it's still stupid!


I do not have any intention to get married, thx for offer.No problem I've been told no before. :p

[sheik-al-Tort]

What about this (http://today.reuters.com/news/NewsArticle.aspx?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=2006-03-30T142909Z_01_L29661742_RTRUKOC_0_US-ALBANIA-TERESA.xml)
mr Sheikh


Well I think the local muslims are being rather petty. Mother Teresa was famed for the work she did for the poor in India. The people of the town of her birthplace should be glad to celebrate this fact. Only mean mindedness or envy would complain - same goes if it were a muslim person in a predominantly christian village or town. As a christian in that village I'd still be proud of a muslim who'd performed such service. Amo are you a little jealous perhaps?

[wudjab]

I believe the moslems are holding out to erect a statue of a moslem who contributed as much to mankind as Mother Theresa did.

No candidates exist till date.

It's going to be a long wait.

[Arabian Princess]

Wudjab, dont worry we are not hoping to build statuses because its forboddien for us :rolleyes:

[amo_l_oman]

Well I think the local muslims are being rather petty. Mother Teresa was famed for the work she did for the poor in India. The people of the town of her birthplace should be glad to celebrate this fact. Only mean mindedness or envy would complain - same goes if it were a muslim person in a predominantly christian village or town. As a christian in that village I'd still be proud of a muslim who'd performed such service. Amo are you a little jealous perhaps?

I try my best to follow Islamic teachings and also our religion is full of examples to follow, no need to be envious nor to make of Muhammad saws or other figures an idol.
I just wanted to highlight that when one goes in details then it is a lil bit more complicate to live in peace and is not only Muslims fault.

[wudjab]

Whos fault is it when moslems protest the installation of a Mother Theresa statue ?

[IceTea]

No pinpointing to issues that you and I might not have the right answer to.




AP, in Islam you have all the right answers and Quran is a book of truth.

[HITMAN]

Whos fault is it when moslems protest the installation of a Mother Theresa statue ?

its the fault of the christians

[Milliardo Peacecraft]

The basic question one needs to ask about this is simple: does God desire emnity between people? Once you answer that, then you know the answer to this thread.

[wudjab]

its the fault of the christians

How ? Please explain.

[HITMAN]

"Mother Teresa, an ethnic Albanian, has long been revered in this mostly Muslim country. Tirana's international airport and main hospital are named in her honor, and there is a memorial to her at the National Museum. An annex there is devoted to her."

source (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1747097&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312)

I dont know the situation in india, but im sure islam has nothing to do with it

however, christians have used statues & pictures in their worships, which is not used by the jews or muslims

so thats where the idea of the statue came from maybe

[wudjab]

How is it the fault of Christians that moslems protest about everything ?

[sheik-al-Tort]

The dark needs some light to rub up against in order to know it exists i suppose Wudji

[tel_aviv]

What is the dark and what is the light ?