450th anniversary of Thomas Cranmer's execution

[sheik-al-Tort]

This fellow was burnt at the stake 450 years ago because he wouldn't renounce his beliefs. He was a protestant. Some years earlier under Henry VIII Thomas More a Catholic was given the same treatment.

What both had in common was a willingness to die for their beliefs.
What their executioners had in common was a willingness to kill for their doctrine.

I find this a very interesting distinction between someone who has the courage and faith to die for their beliefs, even though they know they are going to be tortured mercilessly. These people, though of different faiths are clearly superior men.

The people that persecuted them and then tortured and burnt them, did so to protect their religious doctrine or dogma. They are clearly on the side of Satan, either deliberately or as a result of the insidious nature of religious dogma.

When making judgements about people for their beliefs, we would do well to first consider whose side we are on - faith or dogma?

[wudjab]

And that, Sheik, is the difference between a moslem martyr and a christian martyr.

Martyrdom in Christianity is willing to die for your faith.

[mimosa]

No difference at all, Wud. Theologically speaking, one must suppose that at least one of the dead Thomases above must have been wrong about the "true faith". But the point was that they died believing they were doing right.

The same applies to any other person who believes they are about to be martyred. By definition, they believe they are about to die for a higher purpose and hope for its reward in the afterlife. Even if they are misguided, someone who dies for what they believe is right, is a martyr regardless.

And no, I don't agree with suicide bombings before you ask. But I do believe that some people are deluded enough to believe that they are right to do it.

[CrazyReD]

Martyrdom in Christianity is willing to die for your faith.

dunno what you been drinking but muslims die for thier faith

[sheik-al-Tort]

I may be wrong but I think Wudji might have been alluding to the current propensity for some on the extreme hinterland of Islam to kill as opposed to die for their faith. On the other hand your question is a good one.

Wudji old chap what have you been drinking? Can I have some?

[CrazyReD]

oh currently it's a grey are I'd say

but i'm sure i'll get bashed soon for saying that

[wudjab]

Let me clarify.

A martyr is one willing to give up his life for his beliefs.

A martyr is nota person willing to give up his life and take innocent bystanders along with him for his beliefs.

I thought that much was apparent in my original post.

[sheik-al-Tort]

A well expressed distinction Wudjab.

So called muslim martyrs who kill innocents are simply deluded. The people pulling the strings behind them are nothing short of evil.

[Desert_Sloath]

So called muslim martyrs who kill innocents are simply deluded. The people pulling the strings behind them are nothing short of evil.


i just wonder what difference that is to a B52 pilot ?


i think both of these are just 'means' to an end ?



.

[wudjab]

The B52 pilot does not consider himself to be a Martyr.

He is exactly the same as a pilot working in the Royal Oman Air Force who is obliged to follow orders given by his milarty commanders.