View Full Version : Murder in the name of God.


wudjab
13-07-05, 10:48 PM
One more atrocity in the name of Allah.

AMSTERDAM (AFP) - The man accused of killing Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh confessed to a Dutch court that he acted out of his religious beliefs, saying he would do "exactly the same" if he were ever set free.

"I take complete responsibility for my actions. I acted purely in the name of my religion," 27-year-old Dutch-Moroccan national Mohammed Bouyeri told the court in Amsterdam on the final day of his trial.

Prosecutor Frits van Straelen demanded a life sentence for Bouyeri for killing Van Gogh on an Amsterdam street on November 2, 2004. He recalled the particular brutality of the murder in broad daylight saying Bouyeri not only shot Van Gogh 15 times but also stabbed him and finally slit his throat.

According to the prosecutor the murder of Van Gogh, an outspoken columnist who often criticised Islam and the multi-cultural society, deeply shocked Dutch society.

The killing -- which happened in plain view of more than 50 witnesses while the filmmaker was cycling to work -- stoked ethnic tensions and sparked a wave of reprisal attacks primarily directed at the Muslim community here.

In addition to a life sentence, the prosecution also demanded that Bouyeri be stripped of his right to vote or stand for election for the rest of his life, "to literally place him outside of our democracy".

After the prosecution's closing statement Bouyeri, who had refused to say anything about his motives during the trial, took the opportunity to make a final statement.

"I can assure you that one day, should I be set free, I would do exactly the same, exactly the same," he said, speaking slowly in sometimes halted Dutch.

He said he felt an obligation to Van Gogh's mother Anneke, present in court, to speak, but offered no sympathy.

"I have to admit I do not feel for you, I do not feel your pain, I cannot -- I don't know what it is like to lose a child," he said as Van Gogh's family and friends looked on.

"I cannot feel for you ... because I believe you are an infidel," he added.

"I acted out of conviction -- not because I hated your son."

Van Gogh's mother listened quietly as Bouyeri, wearing a Palestinian black and white headscarf, spoke with a hint of admiration for her son.

"I cannot accuse your son of hypocrisy because he was not a hypocrite. He said things out of conviction," Bouyeri said of Van Gogh.

Bouyeri told the prosecutor that he concurred with the charges against him and the demand for a life sentence -- a sentence which holds no possibility of parole in the Netherlands.

Several months before he was killed Van Gogh, a distant relative of 19th-century painter Vincent van Gogh, had directed a short film called "Submission", which linked abuse of women to Islam.

A letter was left on his body that included quotations from the Koran and threats to several Dutch politicians, including Somali-born lawmaker Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who wrote the script for "Submission".

Bouyeri was arrested after a shoot-out with the police as he attempted to flee the murder scene.

He is charged with the premeditated murder of Van Gogh, the attempted murder of several police officers and bystanders, illegal possession of firearms, obstructing the work of Hirsi Ali as a member of parliament and threatening her with a terrorist act.

Hirsi Ali spent two months in hiding after the murder and is now under 24-hour protection.

Even though prosecutors have said that Bouyeri was "a leading figure" in a terrorist organization known as the Hofstad group, he has not yet been charged in that connection because of lack of evidence, Van Straelen said.

The Amsterdam court will hand down a verdict in the case on July 26, the three-judge panel said after the trial ended here Tuesday.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050712/wl_afp/netherlandsislam_050712135113

jack
13-07-05, 11:21 PM
If the world were ruled by "shari law" would this have even been considered a crime? :rolleyes:

I had to do a blog entry on this one ... please read ... you may or may not enjoy ;)

Pineapple Thief
14-07-05, 12:08 AM
I believe it would have been considered a crime. Punishment for Van Gogh's crime would have been carried out by the law, not by some madman.

Out of curiousity, have any of you seen the video that Van Gogh made which caused this guy to kill him?

wudjab
14-07-05, 12:14 AM
yes. I think I even have saved a copy on mt hard drive.

Pineapple Thief
14-07-05, 12:18 AM
That video would be considered extremely insulting to any muslim. Its a completely bigoted and distorted portrayal of Islam, and I wonder whether it would be considered against the law to make such a slanderous, offensive video in certain Western Societies.

I have no sympathy for Van Gogh. This guy did wrong by killing him though, because in any civilised society we simply can not do that.

NaBHaN
14-07-05, 12:39 AM
I honestly don't feel sorry for van gogh after all the things he said about islam. Maybe if he was more respectful he wouldnt have ended up dead.

Pineapple Thief
14-07-05, 12:41 AM
The saddest part I believe is that this guy, Bouyeri, ultimately hurt the name of Islam with his action.

1) More people will see it as a barbaric religion
2) More people will see/have seen this short movie.

jack
14-07-05, 12:58 AM
I believe it would have been considered a crime. Punishment for Van Gogh's crime would have been carried out by the law, not by some madman.

Out of curiousity, have any of you seen the video that Van Gogh made which caused this guy to kill him?Ok PT ... you agree that "Van Gogh" commited a crime. Does the quran place the "law" in the "individual mulims" hands to carry out the punishment?
Maybe if he was more respectful he wouldnt have ended up dead. What does "respect" have to with crimes and killing. You have all but said ... if you don't "respect" me and my beliefs ... bust a cap in his @ss!

MoonShine
14-07-05, 01:16 AM
I honestly don't feel sorry for van gogh after all the things he said about islam. Maybe if he was more respectful he wouldnt have ended up dead.


Funny you should say that He was murdered in his own country by an Muslim immigrant. Do you understand, "his own country"? Where freedom of speech ( as in all western societies ) is tolerated. Even if he was in Pakistan he shouldn't have been murdered.

wudjab
14-07-05, 01:25 AM
We do not have to agree with what Gogh did. We do not even have to like what he did. We might even think he is a turd for what he did.

What we have to agree on is that beheading him for a video he made is not the way the civilized world operates.

CrazyReD
14-07-05, 01:46 AM
actually no matter how offensive it is you don't just go killing a person and try to justify it

I'm sure i watched the movie i'd get angry and all but a way to counter that would be by making a movie to show how it really is or to have a talk with that guy to educate him better


------
as for the comment by moonshine is that how u attack another persons freedom of speech?

sheik-al-Tort
14-07-05, 04:00 AM
The saddest part I believe is that this guy, Bouyeri, ultimately hurt the name of Islam with his action.

1) More people will see it as a barbaric religion
2) More people will see/have seen this short movie.


It seems you are very reluctant to condemn his murderer. The saddest part is not the name of Islam being hurt, but the chap's family and friends who have suffered a real loss. It's time followers of Islam stopped bing so sensitive and judgemental. Punishment is for Allah if he feels it is necessary. Somehow in the eternal scheme of things I suspect He will be shedding tears of frustration at the narrow minded and hyocritical 'followers' He seems to have attracted. You spend too much time worrying about outward signs of respect or modesty whilst the evil in men's hearts goes unexamined.

Wake up followers of Islam! Don't be dragged down by such trivial sensitivities. Allah doesn't need your protection. Such arrogance!

Pineapple Thief
14-07-05, 11:42 AM
it seems you like to come to conclusions very quickly.

Yes, I do feel sorry for his family and friends and anyone else whos been affected by his murder. I've already condemned his murder - I believe what Red said is the right way to do it - by defending our own religion with education, not violence and murder. You question my priorities and I hold that the death of one man is a bit less important to me than the daily insulting and defiling the ideology and beliefs of millions and millions. This guy should get whatever sentence they give him: he deserves it (not Van Gogh, the other guy).

When I first heard about this murder ages and ages ago, I felt 'man, what the hell, whats with these crazy people killing innocents the world over for some stupid bullcrap reasons?' Then I watched the video out of curiosity and it disgusted me. Its a little hard to feel sympathy for someone you see as worse than dirt: that video was absolutely hateful. Somebody with 2 brain cells and a rudimentary understanding of Islam would be able to see that. So its hard to feel excessive sympathy towards someone like that.

Anyway, my views are my own. You call me arrogant and you don't even know me: what is that but arrogance? :)

Pineapple Thief
14-07-05, 11:46 AM
Oh, and I think its worth mentioning - in the UK at least, Freedom of Speech has its limits. Encitement to hatred is not a freedom you have. In my opinion, this video would make anybody with no knowledge of Islam come to hate it. Its slandering and hateful. I think its questionable as to whether freedom of speech would cover it.

Raed
14-07-05, 12:05 PM
Funny you should say that He was murdered in his own country by an Muslim immigrant. Do you understand, "his own country"? Where freedom of speech ( as in all western societies ) is tolerated. Even if he was in Pakistan he shouldn't have been murdered.

Well.. it is kinda shallow arguement really I am trying to be objective. If I came to your family and told them : Fudge yall.. mother ***#* am sure someone is gonna at least gag me!

Maybe this Muslim guy thought about it the same way. He just thought this guy had no right to talk about the topic he talked about.

as for Freedom of Speech in all western societies, trust me Moonshine it used to be the case in the states.. Now it is more like Afghanistan with white people in charge. People no longer have freedom of speech there. Of course National Security is the excuse.. :zzz:

sheik-al-Tort
18-07-05, 10:16 PM
it seems you like to come to conclusions very quickly.

Anyway, my views are my own. You call me arrogant and you don't even know me: what is that but arrogance? :)


I apologise you are right. :weep:

jack
24-07-05, 11:09 PM
Well.. it is kinda shallow arguement really I am trying to be objective. If I came to your family and told them : Fudge yall.. mother ***#* am sure someone is gonna at least gag me!

Maybe this Muslim guy thought about it the same way. He just thought this guy had no right to talk about the topic he talked about.

as for Freedom of Speech in all western societies, trust me Moonshine it used to be the case in the states.. Now it is more like Afghanistan with white people in charge. People no longer have freedom of speech there. Of course National Security is the excuse.. :zzz:Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton ( which I do like as an individual ), Conde Rice ( I will admit she is biased), Supreme court judge Thomas, NCAAP, CAIR, AAI, all the black mayors, city council men/women all of the country, all the black members of congress ... etc etc ... they missed your memo. Please resend ... it must have been blocked by "your" government. ;) (http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31719)