I couldn’t place this post under the religion forum, as its contents are more of socio-political. Local socio-political issues. As the title indicates, is the Ibadhi sect under threat? It is a natural fact Oman is synonymous with Ibadhism and Ibadhism with Oman. It is fair to assume this is an Ibadhi nation [Ref- CIA fact book on Oman says 75% Omanis are Ibadhis] No doubt the core doctrine is embedded in the hearts and minds of majority of Omanies. In Short Ibadhism is the nations Identity.

Now, Where does the threat come from? According to rumors that are flying around, from within & without. Two factors are mentioned when the question of How, where & who arises. The within forces are [That is according to the rumor] few misguided individuals who harbor radical tendencies i.e. the convicted plotters who were jailed recently and the without force being an aggressive expansionism by the Sunni sect. It is alleged all over the sultanate some members of that sect are influencing others or trying to, via Darsas & festivals they hold for adherents.

Don’t get me wrong. I am not warmonger or a sectarian nor am I religious acrimonist. I concur with the freedom of worship that is enshrined in the Basic law. Above all we are tolerant of the other minorities [Shias, Christians & Hindus] practicing their faith as they wish to. Of course the Renaissance does all it can to have a well-bonded & cohesive Omani society regardless of faith, color or race. Yet again we can’t ignore concerns of a section of society that feels its territory is trodden upon. That’s how some Ibadhis feel right now [again its what I hear]

Could this be true? Are the Sunnis preaching hard & gaining grounds? If so, how do we strengthen the Ibadhi faith for it to remain forever symbol of Oman & core faith of the nation?

What are your thoughts on the above?

Could this be true? Are the Sunnis preaching hard & gaining grounds? If so, how do we strengthen the Ibadhi faith for it to remain forever symbol of Oman & core faith of the nation?

What are your thoughts on the above?

I dont think its fair to say that the ibadhi sect is under thread from sunni sect, that would be so misguding in my opinion. However, we shouldnt ignore that some certain political movment (I wouldnt want to label it as a sect because others who belong to that sect would be wrongly labeled) consider the Ibadhi sect as "khawarij" or outcasts which is strongly untrue (speaking from an ibadhi point of view).
This political movment does its good share of preaching.

I think those who triggred those who claim to be fighting for the mathahab (which I think was the worst decision done by the name of the sect). Also, the youth who knows nothing about the beleives of the mathahab gets affected by that preaching. They are told: you beleive so and so and this is the proof that its wrong. So if you want to be in the right path, you better join us!

I think instead of fighting for the mathahab, we should do more of presenting our views in a moderate way which is by respecting other people's opinion even though you dont agree with them. Sadly, its not happening from both sides.

I think instead of fighting for the mathahab, we should do more of presenting our views in a moderate way which is by respecting other people's opinion even though you dont agree with them. Sadly, its not happening from both sides.

Good point AP. Moderation is one of the points required.

Now, Where does the threat come from? According to rumors that are flying around, from within & without. Two factors are mentioned when the question of How, where & who arises. The within forces are [That is according to the rumor] few misguided individuals who harbor radical tendencies i.e. the convicted plotters who were jailed recently and the without force being an aggressive expansionism by the Sunni sect.
**************

Above all we are tolerant of the other minorities [Shias, Christians & Hindus] practicing their faith as they wish to. Of course the Renaissance does all it can to have a well-bonded & cohesive Omani society regardless of faith, color or race. Yet again we can’t ignore concerns of a section of society that feels its territory is trodden upon. That’s how some Ibadhis feel right now [again its what I hear]

******************
What are your thoughts on the above?

That’s a very good quality you practice.
This peaceful coexistence with other faith and nation, obviously, progressive attitude.
Oman should remain careful about out side cultural infiltration, whoever he is.
Let me make a bit clear, don’t allow you to grab by fundamentalism.

Oman should remain careful about out side cultural infiltration, whoever he is.
Let me make a bit clear, don’t allow you to grab by fundamentalism.

Thats the idea Shams, We should never allow fundametalists to overun us.

And that call nationalist sprit. Uphold your own identity , your culture.
If need any change , do it yourself.

once again i like your style Mti. i, i, i mean language style i, i, wish i had that pouwer of expression like the :

" from within & without. "


but why should one insist of Shia Sect in this country as being the minority comparable to Hindus etc ? Is that an ingredient to the recipe in the pot of divisions so 2speak ?

Aa`takasemoo bi Habli`Allahi Wala Taffarraqo as well as La`Ekrah fee Aldeen is what has always been the approach when it comes to freedom of individuals in this country.


.

You would be amazed to learn how well I get along with members of the shia community. Of course they are by far larger than the other faith members you just mentioned but still a minority statistically

Anyways curse the devil and "hold onto the path of GOD". Shia, Ibadhi and Sunnis in this particular blessed country, Oman, share the same Holy Book 'Qur`An, the very one whose copy The soldiers of United States of AMERICAN "urinated" on and kicked with feet. We fought against the Russians together with the Americans in, in, in the same sangars in Afghanistan and 'elsewhere' but look my friend Mti what we, as muslims, are getting ?

How much of humiliation can we stand ?

.

We fought against the Russians together with the Americans in, in, in the same sangars in Afghanistan and 'elsewhere' but look my friend Mti what we, as muslims, are getting ?D_S
Exactly what financial aid is Oman getting with exception of military protection?


I'll write my congress woman and i'll see if I can put you out of your misery :rolleyes:

I see that the US has scaled the aid money back for Oman from the high of 76,400,000 and that millions in 95. Maybe that's why you are pissed because you have to spend your own money now.
Oman May Increase Cost of U.S. Base Rights
The United States may have to invest more in the defense facilities it uses to pre-position military equipment in Oman to guarantee continued access to those sites, senior Omani officials told Defense News in December.

Oman, the first Gulf state to enter into formal pre-positioning agreements with
the United States, occupies the southeastern tip of the Arabian Peninsula adjacent to the strategically vital Strait of Hormuz, through which an estimated 25 to 50 percent of the world's oil flows. The United States and Oman began bilateral negotiations in Washington, DC in December in preparation for the 10-year renewal of U.S. pre-positioning and access rights in the year 2000. However, Omani officials told Defense News that they are disappointed with the cutoff of U.S. aid to Oman in recent years and an unwillingness in the U.S. to spend money on facilities used jointly by U.S. and Omani forces.

"We have no intention of closing down pre-positioning." the commander of the Omani air force, Vice Marshal Muhammad bin Mahfoudh bin Saad Al Ardhi, told Defense News. "We think the whole access agreement is a model between allies and friends, but we want to watch the agreement and be sure we are sensitive enough to what is happening around us."

I have not been talking about financial gain my country gets from the US or anywhere else. Iraq war toll on Arab World was estimated at 1.6 trillion USD, and that was back in 2003. That is according to United Nations` Economic and Social Commission's estimate of April 16, 2003. So where your, peanut sum so called; aid fits ?

In our society, when one does favor you don't have to keep on mentioning it and if you do it is humiliation to the beneficiary. You don't have to blow your horn for doing others a favor. To keep on reminding of favor done is shame. However, what you refer as "financial aid" in my views, in fact it does not qualify to be referred to as an aid. Beside if that amount is for the purpose paid for then it is far below the gains and it is simply no more than a peanut sum of money at least to me. Certainly, not enough, at all, as a compensation for tarnished name and image of a country concerned. One minute !! was it not a simple bait to win more votes at the UN when the time comes ? i wonder ?!

What is agreed upon between my government and other world's governments is not my direct concern jack. My leader is the Head of the Family (Nation) and his decision we ought to honor. Such, in fact, is what we are taught from the teachings of The very Book urinated on by your Heroes. Our Leader knows what he does for the well being of the family (nation). You know it well.

My own observation is based on the 'abuse' of my Sacred Book, The Holy Qur`An. As a result of The Holy Book's teachings and consequent sacrifice of followers of The Book. The Soviet Union went bankrupt and was forced to pull out of Afghanistan. Someone you know well, was fishing from the shallow waters.
That is what can comfortably be said to be like frying a fish of its own fat.

In fact the contents of That very abused Holy Book rendered more benefit to your country's status quo, as #1 Super Power, than to the followers. Cleaver are your Think Tanks.

As a Muslim, I happen to be stinking with your Heroes urine on me. Am filthy. GW Bush alone can wash this smell off. But how ? you ask me, perhaps I can come up with a suggestion that may be approved by your Think Tank if they care to repair the damage they did not intend to provoke.

GW Bush enters history through wide doors as "The First US President during whose era the Holy Book of Islam was urinated on by whom he proudly
considered to be American Heroes." WHAT A HERO !

Based on the Holy Book,Muslim countries builds mosques by spending millions if not trillions of dollars. They do not propagate the teachings to non-muslims more than they do it for the maintenance to the faith.


Isn't your information somehow outdated ? I'd suggest 2u to, indeed, write to your congress woman, IF SHE can heed you at all, to update the funds. Don't 4get to mention the raising cost of living resulting from the controversial war spearheaded by your Department of Defense over the region.

Back to the point. What can your President do to Heal the wound inflicted by his soldiers, "HEROS," regarding the abuse of OUR Holy Book. You know the FACTS have partially been confirmed by PENTAGON's "staged investingations" ? Such is a hate to all muslims no one left out. All are same i guess.

Are you aware that an 8 eight year old muslim child today talks of the Qur`An abuse by AMERICAN soldiers, HEROS, ? I believe you accept the psychology affect of this in minds of our youngsters. You've certainly burnt down any remaining bridge of trust.

Now my friend can you tell me how you are going to wash that out of our youngsters brain for centuries to come ? For your information, and I bet you know, that our children know more about current affairs than their counterparts in the USA. I guess your intention is to have a good relationship with nations of the world ?

Once again I do not understand what you mean by "military protection" !! don't you think such a tone is meant to twist ones arm 4nothing ? Protection against who ? Oman has a humane foreign policy advocating friendship with 'All Countries of The World' are you against this ? Thanks for the joke and not a bad one too, i suppose.
Masha`Allah ! 'let us do what pleases us on you, otherwise we'd remind you that you live on hand-out from us.'

Even Algeria lives on US charity handouts and not only Phillipine's Aroya, i suppose.



.

Are you aware that an 8 eight year old muslim child today talks of the Qur`An abuse by AMERICAN soldiers, HEROS, ? I believe you accept the psychology affect of this in minds of our youngsters. You've certainly burnt down any remaining bridge of trust.Your mullahs are the ones teaching them that they should kill in the name of Allah ... not me or the US.

I'm tired of you pissing on "my leg" (not a political book) and telling me it's raining ;)

You know and that leads us back to the topic of this thread which you tried to move in another direction to blame someone else ... anyone else but yourself because you don't like it or have no answers.

Is Ibadhism under threat?

But I really didn't expect anymore than that from you D_S :rolleyes:

I couldnt stop my self posting her , first of all most of us do not know much about the socio- economic factors that play part these days as for Ibadithia , it is the first sect evolved if we could call it that its roots are there at the early days of the prophet SAAWS .

WE ARE FEW BUT WE ARE HER AND WE WONT BE UNDER THREAT AS WE GET OUR STRENGHT FROM THE ORIGIN

FEW NOTES I WILL POST ABOUT OUR STAND NOW
Kitman means hiding one’s beliefs. In this state the believers keep their beliefs in secret to avoid suppression by their enemies who will not allow the Ibadhis to profess their beliefs if they discovered them. In this sense, hiding one’s beliefs is the best way to preserve them. So ‘secrecy’ becomes an obligation in such a case.37 Ibadhis started their movement in secrecy to avoid suppression by the Umayyad rulers. Both Ibadhi leaders Jabir b. Zaid and his successor Abu Ubaidah Muslim b. Abi Karimah acted in the stage of secrecy (kitman). All their activities were carried out in secret. During this time, secrecy was recommended almost in everything; it is reported that Dhuman b. al-Saib, a pupil of Jabir and one of the leading Shaikhs of the Ibadhis community of Basrah, said, “Why is it that one of you hides his money and shows his religion; perhaps he will come across someone who will wrest it from him?!”38 Ibadhi scholars claim that the stage of secrecy (kitman) in their doctrine is derived from the life of the Prophet; but they differ in fixing the exact period of secrecy in the life of the Prophet. According to Shaikh Muhammad Yusuf Atfaiyish, it is the period between the beginning of the revelation up to the time when the number of the Muslims reached forty by Umar b. al-Khattab declaring his acceptance of Islam.39 Abu Sulaiman Dawud b. Ibrahim al-Talati regards all the period before the Prophet’s immigration to Madina as a stage of secrecy,40 while Abu Ammar Abd al-Kafi says, “The Prophet stayed in Mecca for some time after the revelation, in secrecy.”41 It seems that he meant the period of three years of the prophethood before the revelation of this verse:

“Proclaim what you have been ordered and turn aside from the polytheists.”42 However, this was the basis on which Ibadhi scholars furnished the proof for the obligation of secrecy (kitman) as a religious duty ordered in the Qur’an.

Your mullahs are the ones teaching them that they should kill in the name of Allah ... not me or the US.

I'm tired of you pissing on "my leg" (not a political book) and telling me it's raining ;)

You know and that leads us back to the topic of this thread which you tried to move in another direction to blame someone else ... anyone else but yourself because you don't like it or have no answers.

Is Ibadhism under threat?

But I really didn't expect anymore than that from you D_S :rolleyes:


No jack. I am not diverting the subject. End rusult, if such rumours are to pass, are the same; playing one muslim against the other. What you call "moving the thread in another direction". I wonder who is calling pissing rain ! I asure you and Great Thinker Mti to relax no threat towards Ibadhi sect from others unless it is coated with American sweet that is what my magic ball tells me. Now, you and Mti-Gumlat, cld you be kindly to, as Shamsery would say; elaborate where you see that threat comming from ? If you say IRAN i'd conclude that you want them exhausted for your own sake :hyper:

When shall we next play maneauvres together with "good&perfect" American soldiers ?


Finally i didn't intend to divert the thread more than wanting to remind Gumblat of ALL MUSLIMS followed the same sacred Book The Qur`An. Read it jack and you will find peace in it. It would certainly soften your heart.


.

Sloth,

Can you help me understand who has called these specific people 'heroes'?

Thanks

Instead of asking question, when you will learn to reply others?

Mr. Pot.

Meet Mr. Kettle.

No jack. I am not diverting the subject. End rusult, if such rumours are to pass, are the same; playing one muslim against the other. What you call "moving the thread in another direction". I wonder who is calling pissing rain ! I asure you and Great Thinker Mti to relax no threat towards Ibadhi sect from others unless it is coated with American sweet that is what my magic ball tells me. Now, you and Mti-Gumlat, cld you be kindly to, as Shamsery would say; elaborate where you see that threat comming from ? If you say IRAN i'd conclude that you want them exhausted for your own sake :hyper:

When shall we next play maneauvres together with "good&perfect" American soldiers ?


Finally i didn't intend to divert the thread more than wanting to remind Gumblat of ALL MUSLIMS followed the same sacred Book The Qur`An. Read it jack and you will find peace in it. It would certainly soften your heart.


.Same song ... different verse ... as always blame america for problems of your own making.

And send me those "peanuts" back since you don't like peanuts you ungrateful ************. But you can't because you ate those peanuts and were glad to get them ;)

Sham,

Perhaps you can help

Can you help me understand what Sloth is talking about - i.e. who has specifically called these people 'heroes'?

Cheers

May i say something... as sloth says we are following our leader so should u consider the other side... if the american soldiers were at fault... do not blame them, blame their leader!... and blame those who have attacked their country and started this war!! What chance do u have against the US?... U can complain and complain and NOTHING will happen!! BOTH SIDES are being polluted!! Blaming each other won't solve the problem!!!.

Is your leader responsible for all the crime that is committed in Oman?

What exactly is the discussion, thread, topic about. :os

Sham,

Perhaps you can help

Can you help me understand what Sloth is talking about - i.e. who has specifically called these people 'heroes'?

Cheers
Mr pinnochio,
Don't you think fair ask him to elaborate his thought?

Is your leader responsible for all the crime that is committed in Oman?

No... but my leader would be responsible for sending soldiers to war... wouldn't he?.... crime is a different matter... nothin to do with what i'm sayin...

Is your leader responsible for all the crime that is committed in Oman?

WHAT CRIME U R TALKING ABOUT ????????

THESE ARE OUR BELEIVES SO PLEASE READ , DO U THINK WE ARE UNDER THREAT ?


IBADHI THEOLOGY.


Contrary to Ibadhi jurisprudence, Ibadhi theology attracted the attention of European scholars. their attention was drawn to the study of Ibadhi theology by Masqueray in his notes on the translation he made of the Siyar of Abu Zakariya Al-Warijlani1, and also by A. de C. Motylinski, who introduced a French translation of the Ibadhi creed of 'Amr b. Jumai to the Fourteenth Congress of the Orientalists in Algiers in the year 19052.



Both scholars, Goldziher and Nalline, noticed and pointed out the similarity of attitudes and views between Ibadhis and Mu'tazilites on certain matters, and suggested that the similarity was due to the Mu'tazili influence on Ibadhi theology3. When discussing some of these points, William Thomson, correctly, pointed out that they agitated Kharijite circles at a fairly early period, and that they were not of Mu'tazili origin, and he suggested that they may have arisen naturally among the Kharijites (this including Ibadhis)4.



The publication of original Ibadhi sources by al-Baruniyah lithographic press provided new material on the subject and encouraged further contributions, in the year 1936, a French translation of two chapters from K. al Dalil wa-'l'burhan of al-Warijlani was made by I.S. Allouche. later, in the year 1949, Mario Moreno tried to present a clearer account of Ibadhi theology based mainly on the works of the modern 'Omani scholar 'Abdullah b. Humaid al-Salimi (d. 1332H.) and other works published by al-Baruniyah5. Six years ago, A comparative study of the Ibadhi creed of Abu Zakariya al-Jannawani and its relation to other Sunni reeds accompanied by an Italian translation of the Aqidah of Abu Zakariya appeared6.



To evaluate the views formed by European scholars on Ibadhi theology, especially those of Goldziher and Nallino, one should start the study of Ibadhi theology from the early stage of the movement, and trace the development of its tenet in order to define and distinguish from the other schisms the stand-point of the Ibadhi school.



In the following pages, I propose to study the development of Ibadhi theology from its early stages, giving a clear account of the problems which arose then. this will be followed by a study of the sub-divisions of the Ibadhi movement which came about through differences on theological grounds and a general review of Ibadhi works on theology. Finally, a brief comparative study of Ibadhi theological views as contrasted with the views of other Islamic schisms on basic issues will be made.



The Qur’an was the fundamental source of Islamic theology7. The Companions who appointed themselves to teach the Qur’an and its interpretation to the Muslims may be taken as the first class of Muslim theologians. Their discussion of the theological problems which were dealt with in the Quern, or arose out of Quranic expressions, were based mainly on Traditions which they heard from the Prophet, or reported on an authority remounting to the Prophet.



With regard to Ibadhis, their first Imam and the founder of their school, Jabir b. Zaid, acquired his views from a large number of the Companions, especially Ibn Abbas, the Companion from whom the bulk of information on Tafsir was narrated8. This highly significant fact is an indication of the soundness of the Ibadhi views concerning theological questions connected with the Qur’an. Most of these views were recorded in the Ibadhi collection of Hadith, entitled Musnad al-Rabi b. Habib9.



Another fact is that the Ibadhi movement began as a intellectual movement. Its activities, which were carried out in secret, enabled its leaders, who were observing closely and carefully the religious and political development of the Muslim community, to develop naturally their views on different topics.



The theological problems to appear early in Ibadhi sources can be categorised into three groups:



i) Problems concerned with God.

ii) Problems concerned with the relation between Man and God.

iii) Problems concerning the relation between man and man.



i) Under the first heading comes the question of tashbih, anthropomorphism, which arose out of the Quranic expressions applying to God physical description borrowed from the human body10. This question was later studied as an item within the principle of Unity (al-Tawhid) in the Ibadhi creed. However, early Ibadhi austerities reported and maintained the interpretation of expressions of this nature from the Companions. The following are some examples of the exegesis reported on such verses:



Qabdah (handful), which figures in the following verse, "The Earth altogether shall be His 'handful' on the day of Resurrection"11; here, qabdah is explained as power and rule. Jabir b. Zaid said that Ibn Abbas declared polytheists whose who thought that the 'handful' (yaqbidu) and outspreads, "12 meaning gives and forbids. He said also in the Verse of the Shadow, "Thereafter We seize it to Ourselves, drawing it gently."13 Then Ibn Abbas cited some examples of qabdah meaning protection and ownership in Arabic14.



Al-yad (hand) is also explained as God's power and rule in verses such as: iii, 73; xlviii, 88; xxxvi, 83, etc.15 The hands of God in surah v, 64 are explained as rizq, sustenance16. In surah xlviii, 10, the hand is interpreted also as reward and favour from God17. In surah lxvi, 45, the right hand (al-yamin) is interpreted as power, and in suras: xxxvi, 71, and xxxviii, 75, is explained as order, and power, and so on18. This method was also applied to similar terms which figure in the Qur’an, as follows:



a) The eye ('ayn), in suras xx, 39, xi, 37; xxiii, 27; lii, 48; and liv, 14, means knowledge and protection19.



b) The light (nur) in the surah xxiv, 35, means that He is the Just One ('adl) of Heavens and Earth, and the Guide of the inhabitants of heavens and earth20.



c) The face (wajh) of God means God Himself21.



d) The leg (al-saq)in surah lxviii, 42, means the great disaster.22 الأمر الشديد



e) The soul (al-nafs) ascribed to God in surah v, 116, means knowledge23.



f) The coming of God with the angels on the day of resurrection in surah lxxxix, 22, was explained as the coming of His order24.



g) Allah's sitting on the throne (istiwa' 'ala al-'arsh) means His rule over the Universe25.

...WHY would Ibadies be under threat? They ARE Muslims after all.... and a muslim who kills a muslim is NOT a muslim... so hell with how others think... it is just now that I heard the numbers of Ibadhies are decreasing... never knew that b4... so tell me what u think would be the reason?... is it cuz they turned away from their beliefs?(which would be their choice)... If they were threatened as u say... then tell me what form of threat... is it anything like if u don't stop ur beliefs i'll kill u?... then anyone who DOES get threatened by that and leaves is not an ibadhi in the first place.. is it TRUE you say Ibadhies are being threatened? and if so... then BY WHO??

is it TRUE you say Ibadhies are being threatened? and if so... then BY WHO??



good kuwaition.

i hope you get some answer/s.


somehow i feel jack has failed and did not attempt to write to his congress-woman. she must be tough and is scared.

mr pinnochio. 2asnwer you; GW Bish is the one who told the gathering of live soldiers at Arlington and other military bases inside the USA that they are HEROS. Hero / s ? Aakh are there any Heros remaining in the western hemisphere ?



.

Sloth,

Do you think Bush was referring to these specific soldiers?

Sloth,

Do you think Bush was referring to these specific soldiers?

pinnochio have you any doubt Bush reference was specifically exclusive of 'these' soldiers?



.

1000%

your turn

alhakim

Thanks for the insight.