View Full Version : Few question to Pro Invaders.


shamsery
01-06-05, 10:19 AM
The ‘I’ Word: Impeachment.

by Ralph Nader and Kevin Zeese
The impeachment of President Bush and Vice President Cheney, under Article II, Section 4 of the Constitution, should be part of mainstream political discourse.
Minutes from a summer 2002 meeting involving British Prime Minister Tony Blair reveal that the Bush administration was ''fixing" the intelligence to justify invading Iraq. US intelligence used to justify the war demonstrates repeatedly the truth of the meeting minutes -- evidence was thin and needed fixing.
President Clinton was impeached for perjury about his sexual relationships. Comparing Clinton's misbehavior to a destructive and costly war occupation launched in March 2003 under false pretenses in violation of domestic and international law certainly merits introduction of an impeachment resolution.
Eighty-nine members of Congress have asked the president whether intelligence was manipulated to lead the United States to war. The letter points to British meeting minutes that raise ''troubling new questions regarding the legal justifications for the war." Those minutes describe the case for war as ''thin" and Saddam as ''no threatening to his neighbors," and ''Britain and America had to create conditions to justify a war." Finally, military action was ''seen as inevitable . . . But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."
Indeed, there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, nor any imminent threat to the United States:
The International Atomic Energy Agency Iraq inspection team reported in 1998, ''there were no indications of Iraq having achieved its program goals of producing a nuclear weapon; nor were there any indications that there remained in Iraq any physical capability for production of amounts of weapon-usable material." A 2003 update by the IAEA reached the same conclusions.

The CIA told the White House in February 2001: ''We do not have any direct evidence that Iraq has . . . reconstitute[d] its weapons of mass destruction programs."

Colin Powell said in February 2001 that Saddam Hussein ' 'has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction."

The CIA told the White House in two Fall 2002 memos not to make claims of Iraq uranium purchases. CIA Director George Tenet personally called top national security officials imploring them not to use that claim as proof of an Iraq nuclear threat.

Regarding unmanned bombers highlighted by Bush, the Air Force's National Air and Space Intelligence Center concluded they could not carry weapons spray devices. The Defense Intelligence Agency told the president in June 2002 that the unmanned aerial bombers were unproven. Further, there was no reliable information showing Iraq was producing or stockpiling chemical weapons or whether it had established chemical agent production facilities.

When discussing WMD the CIA used words like ''might" and ''could." The case was always circumstantial with equivocations, unlike the president and vice president, e.g., Cheney said on Aug. 26, 2002: ''Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction."

The State Department in 2003 said: ''The activities we have detected do not . . . add up to a compelling case that Iraq is currently pursuing . . . an integrated and comprehensive approach to acquire nuclear weapons."
The National Intelligence Estimate issued in October 2002 said
''We have no specific intelligence information that Saddam's regime has directed attacks against US territory."

Please look further to the others opinion,

The UN, IAEA, the State and Energy departments, the Air Force's National Air and Space Intelligence Center, US inspectors, and even the CIA concluded there was no basis for the Bush-Cheney public assertions. Yet, President Bush told the public in September 2002 that Iraq ''could launch a biological or chemical attack in as little as 45 minutes after the order is given." And, just before the invasion, President Bush said: ''Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof -- the smoking gun -- that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud."

The president and vice president have artfully dodged the central question: ''Did the administration mislead us into war by manipulating and misstating intelligence concerning weapons of mass destruction and alleged ties to Al Qaeda, suppressing contrary intelligence, and deliberately exaggerating the danger a contained, weakened Iraq posed to the United States and its neighbors?"

If this is answered affirmatively Bush and Cheney have committed ''high crimes and misdemeanors." It is time for Congress to investigate the illegal Iraq war as we move toward the third year of the endless quagmire that many security experts believe jeopardizes US safety by recruiting and training more terrorists. A Resolution of Impeachment would be a first step. Based on the mountains of fabrications, deceptions, and lies, it is time to debate the ''I" word.
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0531-23.htm

Last three years, Sirs Ice Tea, Hasnain, DS and many others trying to prove , the American invasion on Iraq was based on a bunch of lie. Me too.
The war was unjust, violation of UN charter.
Saddam was a tyrant, dictator, oppressor etc etc , we agree.
Do you agree with Eighty-nine members of Congress Saddam as ''no threatening to his neighbors,"?
Do you agree that ''Britain and America had to create conditions to justify a war."

Do you agree “the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy”
Do you agree intelligence was manipulated to lead the United States to war.
Do you agree Saddam was not linked with 9/11
Do you agree Saddam hadn’t connection with Al Quaida
I just like to concentrate our discussion on the points mentioned above.
Mr. Wudjab, Mr.Jack, Mr. Shinoda , Mr. Pinnochio, looking for your cooperation, please.

shamsery
02-06-05, 12:52 AM
Going unnotice

Shinoda LP
02-06-05, 01:08 AM
Sad to see the un-noticed post ... well, to tell you the truth, everyone has to discuss or argue about something single-handedly. You never answer any questions, which just kills the discussion ... so, why bother asking people to post in your threads? Just my 2 cents ...

...

Now what I think about the whole impeachment issue. To start off, I still find Clinton's whole sexual issue totally bull. I agree that he was the president of US of A and all, but after all he's a human. Whatever he does in private, that doesn't drastically affect the affairs of the country, should remain private. Blah!

Now about the Iraq issue. Would Iraq have posed as a direct threat to the US? Probably not, who knows? Would Afghanistan have posed a direct threat to US, before the 09/11 incident? I would have, then, probably say "probably not". Now that did happen, didn't it? Look at it this way ... If people look upto me in my neighborhood and suddenly something totally out of the blue happens to my family, me and family will be totally devastated. Next, I remember another neighbor who's always been horrible to me in the past ... the present issue's on my mind, haunting me; so what do I do? Take down or calm that neighbor down for good, so my family's never hurt. Sometimes world politics plays a very similar role! ;)

And yes, Saddam very well could have had links to the Al Qaeeda for all I care.

shamsery
02-06-05, 01:11 AM
You never answer any questions,
The statement is un truth.

shamsery
02-06-05, 01:22 AM
Sometimes world politics plays a very similar role! ;)


Well, India is a nuclear power.
Let us suppose, one fine morning, President of United States , proclaimed , India may target the dreamland America and they wage war against India.
What will be your reaction?
Please reply strait.

Pineapple Thief
02-06-05, 01:25 AM
:) Shinoda it doesnt look like you've read the post.


If we look back far enough, we see that regime change was never even mentioned by the bush gang when we first starting hearing about Iraq. It was the 'war on terror' WMDs etc. etc.
Regardless of the final outcome, its pretty obvious that regime change wasn't the primary objective, or even the secondary objective.

Shinoda LP
02-06-05, 01:26 AM
I'll be devastated of course.

Now you answer straight. Is the president, prime-minister of India anything like Osama Bin Laden or Saddam Hussein? Has India invaded any country forcibly ever? Has there ever been at least rumors about any head of state in India being prosecuted regarding war crimes? Finally, are you comparing Iraq and Afghanistan to India?

Shinoda LP
02-06-05, 01:30 AM
:) Shinoda it doesnt look like you've read the post.


If we look back far enough, we see that regime change was never even mentioned by the bush gang when we first starting hearing about Iraq. It was the 'war on terror' WMDs etc. etc.
Regardless of the final outcome, its pretty obvious that regime change wasn't the primary objective, or even the secondary objective.

No, I read it PT. I even re-collect the exact same points being raised in the Farenheit 9/11 movie. They never doubted Iraq, but then it happened all of a sudden.

Now, all I am saying is ... the whole aim behind the attacks were termed as 'pre-emtive strikes'. I've always maintained at both Sabla and OmanServ that the reasons behind the attacks were bull. Having said that, could or couldn't Iraq have developed as a threat to the US under the hands of Saddam and his sons, I'll never know ... but, I lean towards they could have. Get it?

shamsery
02-06-05, 02:24 AM
I'll be devastated of course.

Now you answer straight. Is the president, prime-minister of India anything like Osama Bin Laden or Saddam Hussein? Has India invaded any country forcibly ever? Has there ever been at least rumors about any head of state in India being prosecuted regarding war crimes? Finally, are you comparing Iraq and Afghanistan to India?

Thank you, one will not only devastated but also try to resist.

Mr. Shinoda , I am honestly disappointed.
I have given you a proposition.
Preemptive war doctrine depends on the will of the President of United States.
No facts, no evidence , no logic are required.

Shinoda LP
02-06-05, 02:35 AM
I can assure you, from the best of my knowledge, as an Indian that no Indian will blow themself up to kill women and children. Target the invaders solely, perhaps ... but, not murdering innocents. You know about the Indian independence movement and why it stands out, right?

Preemptive war doctrine depends on the will of the President of United States.
No facts, no evidence , no logic are required.

Can't believe you've been following politics for this long!

Pineapple Thief
02-06-05, 02:39 AM
Shinoda, can you do me a favor, open me a thread about the Indian independance movement. Correct me if theres some OTHER independance movement :p but Gandhi is a personal hero of mine, even though I know precious little about the movement!

shamsery
02-06-05, 03:07 AM
Total thread damaged.

jack
02-06-05, 03:10 AM
The war was unjust, violation of UN charter.

Failure to comply with UN resolution as terms of the cease fire (he was given 12 years to comply and he did not) ... Gulf War could result in "GRAVE CONSEQUENCES".

You are witnessing those "GRAVE CONSEQUENCES" at this time.

shamsery
02-06-05, 03:10 AM
Can't believe you've been following politics for this long!

Just look to the Iraq and prove me wrong kindly.

shamsery
02-06-05, 03:15 AM
Failure to comply with UN resolution as terms of the cease fire (he was given 12 years to comply and he did not) ... Gulf War could result in "GRAVE CONSEQUENCES".

You are witnessing those "GRAVE CONSEQUENCES" at this time.

Brilliant,
Bush, White House, Pentagon feeling shame to articulate in this way.
They shifted their stand.

jack
02-06-05, 03:19 AM
Brilliant,
Bush, White House, Pentagon feeling shame to articulate in this way.
They shifted their stand.The UN never shifted their stand ...

Failure to comply with UN resolution as terms of the cease fire (he was given 12 years to comply and he did not) ... Gulf War could result in "GRAVE CONSEQUENCES".This is not Bush/US resolution ... as you very well know :rolleyes:

shamsery
02-06-05, 03:25 AM
The UN never shifted their stand ...

This is not Bush/US resolution ... as you very well know :rolleyes:

It didn't mean invassion.

jack
02-06-05, 03:37 AM
It didn't mean invassion.It meant that "Saddam" would be forced to comply ... removed from power since all other options had been implimented and did not work.

Now explain to us how he would be removed from power without invading Iraq?

Few question to Pro Invaders. Or is this topic for the members that support Saddam invading Kuwait?

shamsery
02-06-05, 11:42 AM
Or is this topic for the members that support Saddam invading Kuwait?
Certainly not.
None of us endorse Saddam invasion to Kuwait.
Never ever.
Again delirium.

shamsery
02-06-05, 12:01 PM
It meant that "Saddam" would be forced to comply ... removed from power since all other options had been implimented and did not work.

Now explain to us how he would be removed from power without invading Iraq?
Removing Saddam should not be your headache and you didn’t talk like that before invading Iraq.
Did you?
Any evidence?
It was Iraqis problem to remove Saddam.
Your intention shows another violation of UN charter of noninterference to other domestic matter.

The State Department in 2003 said: ''The activities we have detected do not . . . add up to a compelling case that Iraq is currently pursuing . . . an integrated and comprehensive approach to acquire nuclear weapons."
The National Intelligence Estimate issued in October 2002 said
''We have no specific intelligence information that Saddam's regime has directed attacks against US territory."

Please look further to the others opinion,

The UN, IAEA, the State and Energy departments, the Air Force's National Air and Space Intelligence Center, US inspectors, and even the CIA concluded there was no basis for the Bush-Cheney public assertions. Yet, President Bush told the public in September 2002 that Iraq ''could launch a biological or chemical attack in as little as 45 minutes after the order is given." And, just before the invasion, President Bush said: ''Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof -- the smoking gun -- that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud."

The president and vice president have artfully dodged the central question: ''Did the administration mislead us into war by manipulating and misstating intelligence concerning weapons of mass destruction and alleged ties to Al Qaeda, suppressing contrary intelligence, and deliberately exaggerating the danger a contained, weakened Iraq posed to the United States and its neighbors?"

Last three years, Sirs Ice Tea, Hasnain, DS and many others trying to prove , the American invasion on Iraq was based on a bunch of lie. Me too.
The war was unjust, violation of UN charter.

Saddam was a tyrant, dictator, oppressor etc etc , we agree.

#1.Do you agree with Eighty-nine members of Congress Saddam as ''no threatening to his neighbors,"?
#2.Do you agree that ''Britain and America had to create conditions to justify a war."

#3.Do you agree “the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy”
#4.Do you agree intelligence was manipulated to lead the United States to war.
#5.Do you agree Saddam was not linked with 9/11
#6.Do you agree Saddam hadn’t connection with Al Quaida
I just like to concentrate our discussion on the points mentioned above.
Mr. Wudjab, Mr.Jack, Mr. Shinoda , Mr. Pinnochio, looking for your cooperation, please.

Don’t try to manipulate, come strait and reply one by one.

MoonShine
06-06-05, 03:42 AM
Your intention shows another violation of UN charter of noninterference to other domestic matter.


Dude, this violation crap is becoming SOOOOO boring. Please provide that information that this war was a violation.

You can't.

jack
06-06-05, 06:07 AM
Vast network of bunkers (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1499869,00.html)

Were the UN inspectors given access to these bunkers? I don't think so since they have been recently discovered. Look for the "french and germans" to be mums the word on this. It will become very clear why mums the word :weep:

How many more facilities are in Iraq like this that could have stored illegal materials per the UN resolution that was never searched?

No doubt more will be found in the future. I smell a skunk in the woodshed shams ... don't you ;)

shamsery
06-06-05, 09:31 AM
How many more facilities are in Iraq like this that could have stored illegal materials per the UN resolution that was never searched?



You mean there were WMD?
Good.

jack
06-06-05, 06:53 PM
You mean there were WMD?
Good.I mean there were clearly facilities that were never disclosed and never inspected.

You can draw your own conclusions.

shamsery
06-06-05, 10:46 PM
I mean there were clearly facilities that were never disclosed and never inspected.

You can draw your own conclusions.

And in those facilities , Iraqis used to manufarute WMD, correct?

jack
06-06-05, 11:09 PM
I mean there were clearly facilities that were never disclosed and never inspected.

You can draw your own conclusions.

And in those facilities , Iraqis used to manufarute WMD, correct?Un inspectors were never given a chance to find out ... were they? You can also add this to the violations of UN resolution. ;)

shamsery
07-06-05, 06:59 PM
Un inspectors were never given a chance to find out ... were they? You can also add this to the violations of UN resolution. ;)

In a banker?
Really, wonderful argument.
These are the question , looking for your comment, please.

Saddam was a tyrant, dictator, oppressor etc etc , we agree.
Do you agree with Eighty-nine members of Congress Saddam as ''no threatening to his neighbors,"?
Do you agree that ''Britain and America had to create conditions to justify a war."

Do you agree “the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy”
Do you agree intelligence was manipulated to lead the United States to war.
Do you agree Saddam was not linked with 9/11
Do you agree Saddam hadn’t connection with Al Quaida
I just like to concentrate our discussion on the points mentioned above.

shamsery
08-06-05, 08:33 PM
I know you will never come forward with the reply.

“Some have asked me why I, and others, keep writing our articles on the internet - it is because we have to keep speaking aloud so that others who have the same thoughts who do not write or speak for a variety of reasons, realize that they are not alone in their vision of truth and that they are not wrong because they can't believe the talk shows and their incessant distortions of truth.”

wudjab
08-06-05, 08:46 PM
Poor Jeff Rense.

Now people are stealing his writings without even acknowledging him as the source.

http://www.rense.com/general60/updie.htm

shamsery
08-06-05, 08:58 PM
What is your reply, do you have?

shamsery
08-06-05, 09:02 PM
Poor Jeff Rense.

Now people are stealing his writings without even acknowledging him as the source.

http://www.rense.com/general60/updie.htm

Checked the link and couldnot found any connection with question asked for.

jack
08-06-05, 09:11 PM
From the link ...

"Some have asked me why I, and others, keep writing our articles on the internet - it is because we have to keep speaking aloud so that others who have the same thoughts who do not write or speak for a variety of reasons, realize that they are not alone in their vision of truth and that they are not wrong because they can't believe the talk shows and their incessant distortions of truth."

From your sig or rather all your post ... are you saying you did not steal this without credits?

“Some have asked me why I, and others, keep writing our articles on the internet - it is because we have to keep speaking aloud so that others who have the same thoughts who do not write or speak for a variety of reasons, realize that they are not alone in their vision of truth and that they are not wrong because they can't believe the talk shows and their incessant distortions of truth.”

You and this guy do think alike ...

and yes the last few words describe you well shams ...

Don't you just hate it when you get caught with your hands in the cookie jar :cry:

shamsery
08-06-05, 09:41 PM
From the link ...


From your sig or rather all your post ... are you saying you did not steal this without credits?



Look the sign is under inverted coma. Now come to the point.