Being an Omani!!!! [Archive]

dotcom

26-08-00, 12:05 PM

I am proud to be Muslim Omani,, all my deepest roots are from this beloved Oman,,, but I am away from it,,, sacrifiying my youth and health,,,eat, drink and sleep on books hoping oneday I will come to serve my Oman, omani and visitors of oman.
oman means every thing to me,, It is the place I call HOME,,it is the place I feel home,,it is the place I am regarded at home,,,.
Dears who don't appreciate being Omani in Oman,, ask me that I have been away for long,, I have been in non-Oman country for nearly a decade,, still don't feel belong to anywhere else but oman,, regardless of my income, position or whatever surrounding me.
Being Omani and in Oman is a bless,,. Omanis are very kind people, very generous, very polite ,very respectiful,,,etc. not just being Omani and Omani-lover,, but ask even those non omanis who lived or living with Omanis they will tell you.
Al-hamdulillah, we are well respected in non-Omani country,, only because being Omanis.
if you want more to feel what means being Omani in-between Omanis,, go even visit some of close-to-Oman coutries,, you will see how people deal each others,,ie. in very unfriendly and rude( if you allow me to use this word),, even UNFORTUNATELY in Our most-respectiful Holy land of Mecca and medina.
I know very sad sad that many in Oman are changing to wrong direction,,, I hope we will wake-up to grap tightly our well-pleasant Omani Islamic way of living,,,.
and please to any father, mother, brother and sister to up-raise their beloved ones in right manors.

dotcom.

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HATE_QOOM_LOOT

30-08-00, 08:30 PM

I am proud to be an muslim 1st
Also proud to be Omani 2nd
Also proud to bee with you people 3rd
And proud to be my self
Take care all

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I LOVE YOU ALL BUT NOT THE GAY'S

Blue_Chi

05-03-04, 07:08 PM

This is a nice little old topic, wonder if anyone is interested to reply to it now.

amo_l_oman

05-03-04, 07:48 PM

Sorry to interfere: for those who criticise Islam, notice that in most of the answers being proud to be Omani is strictly attached to be Muslim and that is a big point of strength.
I like Omanis, cause more than any other gulf population, hardly they trust you but when you win their heart they'd give life for you if needed.
Hope many will partecipate in this thread , curious to hear from you, malgoofa italina :p Hope i expressed properly what i meant :help:

um albanin

05-03-04, 07:54 PM

I wouldnt choose anything else. its just so perfect , never ask for more.Omani Muslim . Miss you Oman.:weep:

sophis^catrina

05-03-04, 08:29 PM

Back to the topic. Yes, I am very proud of who I am and would not want to be some other nationality.

Desert_Sloath

05-03-04, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by um albanin
I wouldnt choose anything else. its just so perfect , never ask for more.Omani Muslim . Miss you Oman.:weep:

Dear patriotic,

Nice tender words touched my heart :weep:

Am proud 2b Omani. I have free medicare, education and social welfare. May God Protect All.

Arabian Princess

05-03-04, 10:10 PM

I know Oman is not heaven, but for me Oman is my heaven. I leave for few weeks and my heart misses Oman!!

My brother did once, when he was abroad and came back .. he kissed the Oman's land. I feel the same.

Being Omani means I would always wish the best for my country. it would mean I would give my life to Oman (literly) if she needed it!!

I LOVE OMAN!!

Najah

05-03-04, 10:31 PM

[i]
I LOVE OMAN!!

Me too.

ToomuchaT

05-03-04, 10:39 PM

i cant say anything..if i do the i will be recalled as racist. :rolleyes:

cheeers:)

Talal

06-03-04, 12:12 AM

i Love Oman.. and im proud To be an Omani.. :) .. And i really mis Oman.. :( :sad:

Mti

06-03-04, 08:35 AM

Interesting.

Dark Project

06-03-04, 10:35 AM

Typical Hypocrisy .. You don’t open a topic to state that you love being Omani :rolleyes: Next thing you will say Iam proud being KHALIJI .... what’s next !!!!

Love is in the heart You see most of the people who say I love my country or Iam in love with my husband or Im in love with my wife are lying as you dont have to prove or announce it to anyone its just Hypocrisy

Talal

06-03-04, 10:49 AM

"The Best Thing in here is speakIN Up 'BOUT what you feel..."

TRY TO HAVE FUN.. :kewl:
No Other Comments... :) :kewl:

Peace. :)

SadLad

06-03-04, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by toomuchat
i cant say anything..if i do the i will be recalled as racist. :rolleyes:

cheeers:)
I wonder why you think racist, you write racist, you express racist.....Why are you so fond of racism?! It is disgusting believe me :yuck:

Cute_One

06-03-04, 03:30 PM

i just came back from oman and i miss it already:(
although im half omani but im PROUD of hving that blood in me ... :gap:

ToomuchaT

06-03-04, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by SadLad
I wonder why you think racist, you write racist, you express racist.....Why are you so fond of racism?! It is disgusting believe me :yuck:

i seek from Alah to bless u with a wadi of brains .. (ya alah be wadi 3qool)

cheeeers:)

um albanin

06-03-04, 07:18 PM

Originally posted by Dark Project
Typical Hypocrisy .. You don’t open a topic to state that you love being Omani :rolleyes: Next thing you will say Iam proud being KHALIJI .... what’s next !!!!

Love is in the heart You see most of the people who say I love my country or Iam in love with my husband or Im in love with my wife are lying as you dont have to prove or announce it to anyone its just Hypocrisy

its part of our inner sole to express our feelings to whom we love.But if it is a country you cant tell or speak to it , you express it in other ways of appreciation (weather fullfilling duties or helping others) or you say it to others. If we know each other it would be "Hypocrisy"may be! but we are dealling with invisible members.
any way I just love to express my passion to my country:
with each breath
with every blink of the eye
with each heart beat
I love Oman

Desert_Sloath

06-03-04, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by SadLad
I wonder why you think racist, you write racist, you express racist.....Why are you so fond of racism?! It is disgusting believe me :yuck:

Sady his is called "inferiority complex." We do have some like him around our neighbourhood here in Sinaw.

Miss_N

06-03-04, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by Arabian Princess

I LOVE OMAN!! [/B]

We all love Oman.

East Or West OMAN Is The Best :)

refreshingair

06-03-04, 08:10 PM

i am happy bcuz i am Omani

living in islamic country
the arabic language is my language
country of peace ..

but: it has little problem with getting jobz but still i love it :blush:

ToomuchaT

06-03-04, 08:51 PM

Originally posted by Desert_Sloath
Sady his is called "inferiority complex." We do have some like him around our neighbourhood here in Sinaw.

oh yeah... i wonder how have u survived? :D ... i like Sinaw btw.. we always go there to buy goats:D

cheeeeeeeers:D

Blue_Chi

07-03-04, 12:25 PM

People just love the country because they are from there, if you come from Kuwait you will say that you love Kuwait, if you come from Egypt you will say that you love Egypt, it is not about the country itself, there is nothing special about Oman, but you just claim that you love the place because you don't have any other choice to a place to belong to.

mimosa

07-03-04, 12:46 PM

As a foreigner I think there is something a little bit special about Oman. As much to do with the people as the scenery I think.

But it's funny all this "I love my country, I'm proud to die for Oman" stuff. The best thing most people could do for their country is get their butt out of bed, get educated, and do a decent day's work :D

Arabian Princess

07-03-04, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by Blue_Chi
People just love the country because they are from there, if you come from Kuwait you will say that you love Kuwait, if you come from Egypt you will say that you love Egypt, it is not about the country itself, there is nothing special about Oman, but you just claim that you love the place because you don't have any other choice to a place to belong to.

yes I agree with you!!

but thats the good part .. not everyone have the feeling of belonging to thier country. those who stated they "love Oman" have that feeling inside them.

this is why I said, Oman is not heaven, but its my heaven.

Mimo, I agree that we need to do more .. and one thing that I always criticize Omais with is that they dont give Oman enough and then they complain about it.

um albanin

07-03-04, 01:16 PM

Thanks for your concerns memo. I think 40 hrs a week training with 7 continous night shifts per 6 weeks is the most I can do physically to get my best training. All to go back & serve my people & my country.(especially when its without allowence)

mimosa

07-03-04, 01:23 PM

Good for you! Hope you're an example...:)

Chantalle

07-03-04, 04:18 PM

Well actually i'm happy with being an Omani..i feel i belong to this country, i usually realize this when i travel abroad..i always feel like going back home..

Talal

08-03-04, 09:56 AM

well some people love other countrys more then there homeland...so its not bout where u were Born... its bout The country it self... SOME OMANIS LOVE USA n CANADA... and they are livin' there... its not bout Where u were Raised n born...

Sometimes you feel addicted to the place u r in.. And you wish to live there for the rest of ur life... :) thats what i think..

Peace.. :)

SoMe1

08-03-04, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by mimosa
The best thing most people could do for their country is get their butt out of bed, get educated, and do a decent day's work :D

Aha! Very interesting indeed.. You know what's the first thing that came to my mind after reading that? "LOOK WHO'S TALKING!"

I rest my case Mimo.. :inno:

I Love Oman to be honest, it's great living in this country, I'd always want to come back to it.. Everyone complains that there is nothing to do in Oman and that it’s a dead country, but all of them can’t stay away from it when they are aboard, I mean after having fun and all, they always miss this place and would want to come back to it. Same case with me.

Genially speaking I am more proud to be a Palestinian then an Omani, i don't know it's just something in me that can't and wont let go, even though i have never been there, I'm just proud to be a Palestnian ( even though half - but it take a big space in my heart).

Persian Queen

08-03-04, 12:33 PM

happy as long as i have my thing and tradinonal things that i respact and alhamdulilah thats cooool;)

Amir

08-03-04, 04:04 PM

I was born in UK, so I'm born British, I had my British Passport, I was brought up there, I had everything there, but still didn't like it that much, just wish to be an Omani and I did become an Omani.

I love Oman, and I love being there. But to be honest there so many things that I hate in Oman and us Omanis.

SteLLa

24-06-05, 11:43 PM

proud 2 be omani 9ara7a.. el7amdillah wil shikr :)

MsKnuckles

24-06-05, 11:51 PM

Proud to be an Omani... proud of the country... not too sure about its people though :hehe:

CrazyReD

25-06-05, 12:14 AM

the people are the one who make Oman

we arn't perfect we got the good and bad

If there are bad then I hope i'm one of the good that help make my country shine

Proudest moment when we got 2nd in gulf cup no word could describe it just to see red white and green all over people we didn't know all of us supporting the same team the same people when they lost all of us were sad but then we all shrugged that off and started painting the town red

MsKnuckles

25-06-05, 12:18 AM

Omani people might be good in developing their country CR... but they should give a little more thought to developing themselves ;)

CrazyReD

25-06-05, 12:22 AM

but you can't generalize thats my point

MsKnuckles

25-06-05, 12:25 AM

sorry.... MOST of the people in oman need to develope their thoughts MOSTLY... :)

CrazyReD

25-06-05, 12:27 AM

hehe ok better :p

alhakim

25-06-05, 01:08 AM

sorry.... MOST of the people in oman need to develope their thoughts MOSTLY... :)

kullun yara annas bi3ayn tab'ieh.* beauty is in the eyes of the beholder*

The omanies are happy the way they are , just ask the forigners/tourists about what they see in them.

MsKnuckles

25-06-05, 01:16 AM

... that is generalizing alhakim... but I'm afraid not all Omanies are happy with themselves or with their lives but they just don't wanna admit it... if u see it differently then that's u... this is what I see, I ain't askin anyone to agree... however about the foreigner thing... I have asked and I know many foreigners who told me what they think the problem is with Omani ppl (men and women)... I would take it from them... since what they said made sense to me... most omanies need to develope themselves as I said... if u're happy with urself then I'm happy for u... but I myself am not planning on staying the same... I've still got a lot to learn..

CrazyReD

25-06-05, 01:20 AM

btw what do you mean by develop themselves like in what sence?

MsKnuckles

25-06-05, 01:22 AM

stop living in the old age and move on.... develope their traditional beliefs as has been discussed previously... such things...

MsKnuckles

25-06-05, 01:29 AM

not only that... I think most Omani women need to develope as well... since I've a feeling they're slayin off and spending their time on useless things... even though some do great jobs, for those who don't matters won't get any better for them if they don't move on... honestly some get on my nerves... cuz it ain't right to complain if u'r a lazy bumm urself...

alhakim

25-06-05, 01:34 AM

but I'm afraid not all Omanies are happy with themselves or with their lives but they just don't wanna admit it..

U r mixing things up here we are talking about omanies being with their nationality and being proud of it . as for developing them selves to the beter ofcourse everybody on earth would like to strive foreward let aside it is their duty as muslims .

.
however about the foreigner thing... I have asked and I know many foreigners who told me what they think the problem is with Omani ppl (men and women)... I would take it from them

what do u mean by saying the problem is with omani peopl. the treasure of oman is the omani people and i never seen or met any foreigners in my life time who would say otherwise.

...
since what they said made sense to me... most omanies need to develope themselves as I said... if u're happy with urself then I'm happy for u... but I myself am not planning on staying the same... I've still got a lot to learn

I AM HAPPY FOR U AS U R AFTER ALL AN OMANI . AS FOR MYSELF THE SKY IS THE LIMIT.

Enigma

25-06-05, 01:50 AM

sorry.... MOST of the people in oman need to develope their thoughts MOSTLY... :)
The problem with "developing" is that today developing is just another word for globalization and modernization isn't modernization unless its westernization. Do we want that?

Frankly, I would rather see Oman stay the way it is today rather than move on just to be another Dubai where the heritage becomes lost in the race of trying to be just like the US.

The culture itself is more beautiful and precious than the number of fast food chains we bring in or designer stores.

You see the problem is, that we cannot get people to think modern without having some sort of repercussions. The average person does not stay cultured and religious when you modernize him. The question is, do we want that later impact?

MsKnuckles

25-06-05, 01:59 AM

The omanies are happy the way they are , just ask the forigners/tourists about what they see in them.
and just when or where did I write that Omanies aren't proud of being Omanies??? plz read the above posts before barging in like this...
I said I was proud of being an Omani but not proud of the Omanies themselves... i was asked why and so I gave the reason... the Omani nationality has nothing to do with it... I was just answering a question as in what us as Omanies have to do to develope ourselves....
about the foreigner issue... I said I have spoken to some I know very well and they gave me their true opinions as friends... i am not talkin about strange foreigners or tourists here... plus... just cuz u never heard it doesn't mean they never said it... I hope u got the point for now since I am not willing to explain previous posts... take the time and read them carefully... may we all aim to reach the sky ! :hmm:

MsKnuckles

25-06-05, 02:06 AM

Niggy... modernization is mostly westernization because indeed they're more advanced... I would not advice Oman to take everything from the west... just what they think is good and useful, that's the way it's supposed to be done....but to stay the way they are??... I personally wouldn't prefer that...

alhakim

25-06-05, 02:09 AM

and just when or where did I write that Omanies aren't proud of being Omanies??? plz read the above posts before barging in like this...
I said I was proud of being an Omani but not proud of the Omanies themselves... i was asked why and so I gave the reason... the Omani nationality has nothing to do with it... I was just answering a question as in what us as Omanies have to do to develope ourselves....
about the foreigner issue... I said I have spoken to some I know very well and they gave me their true opinions as friends... i am not talkin about strange foreigners or tourists here... plus... just cuz u never heard it doesn't mean they never said it... I hope u got the point for now since I am not willing to explain previous posts... take the time and read them carefully... may we all aim to reach the sky ! :hmm:

My advice to you is u beter read what u write & what others write carefully, the post is self explaining.

The treasure of oman is the omani people

MsKnuckles

25-06-05, 02:13 AM

hakim :bored:... if u can't specify what ur problem is with what i said then my advice to u is not to complain at all... cuz for one thing what i've written is quite clear... what would be the next advice??? learn english :mmhmm: ??? khalas yakhee... think whatever u want and let others speak their minds... no one else misunderstood me...

alhakim

25-06-05, 02:15 AM

stop living in the old age and move on.... develope their traditional beliefs as has been discussed previously... such things...

as for our traditions , indeed it has benn discussed in length earlier :

http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27627

MsKnuckles

25-06-05, 02:27 AM

Arabian Prince

25-06-05, 01:42 PM

Honestly, without taking any sides here, I believe that TripleTee's views are the most positive views. True its mostly criticism, but I think its all constructional criticism.
If you as -an individual- are part of a larger group or collection of people, and you strive for "improvement", I believe that improvement should come from within you first. (Applied to anything in this life!)

All long journies start with a single small step!

I believe that no Omani (by nationality or birth) could be ashamed of being one. I dont think anyone would even dare think so. Not after all the commodities our beloved country has offered us.

this is why I said, Oman is not heaven, but its my heaven.
Probably the loveliest most patriotic thing anyone has said in this thread! :)
AP(female) if Oman was a treasure chest, then people like you would be the key to it! :)
Thanks...

Arabian Princess

25-06-05, 02:10 PM

Niggy... modernization is mostly westernization because indeed they're more advanced...

I disagree with your defenition of modernazation .. so if I want to be modern, I need to speak english/frensh/german/spanish? I need to eat fast foods, and use technology in the house??

Modernization is in the mind and thoughts .. you have to think in a better way that would make your life better, not necessery westernized or not traditional .. but open to other thoughts and take what you want and keep what doesnt suite you ..
You speak of tradition as it a plaque or something bad, not necesserly .. many traditions are what make arabs/omanis special .. I wouldnt every want to let go of those traditions!!!

MsKnuckles

25-06-05, 02:23 PM

ahhh... hunny... first of all it was Niggy who first brought it up and second what she meant was that modernization is MOSTLY westernization (speaking of reality and what's going on) BECAUSE those who want to be modern usually take them as an example... I'm not saying it's right, nor am I saying it's wrong... there are many types of modernizations... but what I'm saying is that one should learn from others... u can't just rule urself out... westernization is just the biggest form of modernization to us now adays... plz don't attack me cuz I guess the biggest proof is that many of our students study abroad and YOU could be one of them!!! Would you tell me that is wrong then?? or such things shouldn't happen and why should we follow others and bla bla??... I just said that u don't have to take everything from the west... just what u think is right... so what's all the fuss about???

MsKnuckles

25-06-05, 02:29 PM

Modernization is in the mind and thoughts .. you have to think in a better way that would make your life better, not necessery westernized or not traditional .. but open to other thoughts and take what you want and keep what doesnt suite you ..
ma tkhalafna inzain... open up and take what u think is right... yes... so?

You speak of tradition as it a plaque or something bad, not necesserly .. many traditions are what make arabs/omanis special .. I wouldnt every want to let go of those traditions!!!
tradition is not a plaque... traditions are methods our grandfathers used to use... lool... APess!!!! obviously they are not bad... but they're out of date.. at least some... if u wanna stick to them and follow them in ur daily life just to show that u are Omani and stubbornly don't wish to move on cuz u wanna hold the memories ... that's really upto u... What i said was that people should know and remember their traditions... following them is another story... why use the camel if u already have cars :bored:

Arabian Princess

25-06-05, 02:35 PM

Enigma said that people mistake moderanization for westernization (which I agree) and you replied that in fact most modernization is westernization (which I dont)

not because they are advanced than us, what they do is righ!! not because we go there to get the knowledge from, that we should leave our traditions and take thier way of living .. those

I am not attacking, I am just telling you I disagree with you.

Arabian Princess

25-06-05, 02:42 PM

tradition is not a plaque... traditions are methods our grandfathers used to use... lool... APess!!!! obviously they are not bad... but they're out of date.. at least some... if u wanna stick to them and follow them in ur daily life just to show that u are Omani and stubbornly don't wish to move on cuz u wanna hold the memories ... that's really upto u... What i said was that people should know and remember their traditions...

so you mean I shouldnt be generous to my guests just because its out of date? so you are telling me I shouldnt go check on my aunts and uncles and see them just because we are living in a fast life??
those are examples of our traditions ..

you see you speak of tradition as its all bad .. I am not saying that all are good, but at the same time I find it unfair to label tradition as bad without specifying which one you mean!

IceTea

25-06-05, 05:19 PM

westernization is just the biggest form of modernization to us now adays...

The problem is that you are mixing between the development of western countries and the way the westerns live. There is a big difference between the two issues, for example there is no respect (or little) between the parents and their kids in the west, you will find kids shout and even hit their parents, etc. Do you want to take such attitude for the western people?

plz don't attack me cuz I guess the biggest proof is that many of our students study abroad and YOU could be one of them!!! Would you tell me that is wrong then?? or such things shouldn't happen and why should we follow others and bla bla??... I just said that u don't have to take everything from the west... just what u think is right... so what's all the fuss about???

Searching for education is an Islamic theory, do you remember there is a hadith saying what it means "Look for education even if in China", but it should be within Islamic rules a female student should be with ma7ram or group of trusted people and not just travel alone and make sins for the sake of education. There should be a balance between seeking education and following Allah and the prophet sunnah.

Arabian Prince

25-06-05, 07:43 PM

There is a big difference between the two issues, for example there is no respect (or little) between the parents and their kids in the west, you will find kids shout and even hit their parents, etc. Do you want to take such attitude for the western people?
I totally understand what you mean here Sir IceTea al-mowaqqar :D
However I must say that it wasn't really the best of examples at all. This here my friend is generalization at its best. What gives you the idea that this is the way kids behave towards their parents/elders in the west? TV? Media? Well think again, because it happens everywhere else in this world just as much as it does in the 'west' :)

MsKnuckles

25-06-05, 08:15 PM

APess: If Enigma meant that people mistake westernization for modernization then I still stick to saying that most people modernize through the west... which is true!!... I'm not talking about whether it's wrong or right... I was just saying what was goin on in reality... which is very similar to what Niggy said

not because they are advanced than us, what they do is righ!! not because we go there to get the knowledge from, that we should leave our traditions and take thier way of living .. thosedid I say that now??... do I keep getting misunderstood here... this is what I said:

obviously they are not bad... but they're out of date.. at least some...
did I say ALL were out of date here??

What i said was that people should know and remember their traditions... following them is another story... why use the camel if u already have cars
did I say forget ur traditions here??? and what did my last line indicate?? did I say don't follow it at all... I just said following it is another issue... "why use the camel if u already have cars?" ... from that u should know what kind of traditional aspects I am talking about APess... I have nothing against tradition in itself... but I have something against people who follow some traditiions that are useless now adays... or that simply slow our developement down ... people who don't wish to move on... and here i mean move on to the better... what u indicated above was a complete misunderstanding my lady... I am just telling u what I see is going on and what needs to be changed...

IceTea

25-06-05, 08:16 PM

MsKnuckles

25-06-05, 08:19 PM

u're saying it's WITH their religion to treat THEIR parents that way???... u need to go there and have a look for urself :rolleyes:

IceTea

25-06-05, 08:32 PM

What religion?

MsKnuckles

25-06-05, 08:35 PM

The westerner's religion :bored:

sophis^catrina

25-06-05, 08:35 PM

7ilwa al mowaqqar, but I'm not a minister :D

I don't think it's generalization my friend, it's the common practice in the western countries. I agree there are exceptions even in the muslim countries but we know it's against our religion to treat our parents in such way.

Actually, it's to do with the particular culture of that country. I was talking to a Spanish lady a few weeks ago, and she was telling me that she can never understand how cold the English can get that they even dare put their elderly in homes, rather than live with their children and family. You can most clearly see that even though both England and Spain are Western countries, their cultures are very different. While the English don't mind putting their parents in elderly homes, with the Spanish it's a totally different case and they see it horrible just like how we Arabs do.

MsKnuckles

25-06-05, 08:39 PM

IceTea

25-06-05, 08:43 PM

Why we have to choose? If muslims follow the Quran and prophet sunnah they don't need to follow the western traditions to manage their life, remember that Islam is a way of life.

Thanks sophy for your input, you might be right, but still religion plays a role in this.

Arabian Princess

25-06-05, 08:50 PM

well... that's one thing we don't have to follow... just as many say that I talk as if tradition is bad... it ain't like some of u don't talk as if the west is all bad!!!... people... neither of them is good or bad... u just have to choose what u think is good and leave the rest... as simple as that!!!

If you say it this way then I agree with you .. but the way you have been saying it before was different!! you were expressing that people should leave aside thier tradition which I dont agree with.

Arabian Prince

25-06-05, 10:11 PM

but it should be within Islamic rules a female student should be with ma7ram or group of trusted people and not just travel alone and make sins for the sake of education.
(Nothing against you at all brother IceTea :D)
I believe that this was uncalled for. :rolleyes:
Couldn't you seriously have thought of something better to say?
I am sure you are aware that the english sabla is place for many overseas students. An inevitable portion of those students are with no doubt females, muslim females, most probably from respectful families.
I can guarantee you that not every single one of them was sent overseas to complete her higher education with a ma7ram (or as you say group of trusted people). Despite the minority that might've done so, am sure the rest havn't.
So are you assuming that the rest are overseas on higher education in a way that is against Islamic views or beliefs??
Are you saying that those with no ma7ram or "group of trusted people" are not their for the sake of study but to "make sins" ?? :think:

I don't think thats what you really intended to say, regardless of the fact that it could be true. However, I believe it was used very innappropriately!

MsKnuckles

25-06-05, 10:58 PM

I completely agree with AP there... including APess :D... some lines hold hidden meanings that ain't clear to others sometimes... might've been my bad... :shy:

nana

26-06-05, 10:55 AM

Me too, so proud to be created as a muslim the true / pure religion. Iam so proud to be an Omani, the country of sacrifice.

Iam realy surprised of those who leaves their nations (countries) to live in another place. If you investigae this, you will find that the most of them are looking for money. The temporary wealth which gonna disappear one day, and they forget the everlasting one. They do this, and they are ready to throw their Islam and country away. They are ready to attack them, provided they get the money.

Subhan Allah.

------------------
The Islam is my father I have no other father.

i dont agree with you.... not all who leave their countries leave their religion behind nor their countries what if those people left their countries for further education and got good chance for working there and gain great experience.... who would leave that opportunity???????

IceTea

26-06-05, 11:45 AM

Are you saying that those with no ma7ram or "group of trusted people" are not their for the sake of study but to "make sins" ?? :think:

That is the Islamic rulings on the issue and not my view, I'm sure you know the famouse Hadith which states that a woman can't travel one day and night without ma7ram. Even during haaj a woman should travel with ma7ram.

I didn't say they travel to make sins, Allah will judge people and not me or anyone else. But I was only higlighting the travel issue.

MsKnuckles

26-06-05, 12:58 PM

I agree with nana and AP... besides.. if a woman is independant enough to take care of herself, I see no issue there... that hadith was stated for women who aren't able to defend themselves... a woman would need a man to be with her in that case... but I see no problem with independant women, or those who're on their way to becoming one... it's all a part of their education... in this case I would follow the quran more than the hadith, depending on the situation...

IceTea

26-06-05, 02:40 PM

Now you are becoming a mufti and say the Hadith is only for women who can't defend themselves, Interesting!

You can also say the Hijab is for women who have ugly hear.

MsKnuckles

26-06-05, 03:22 PM

actually I heard the opposite... the 7igab is not necessary for old women who've already passed I dunno what age...
I'm afraid I'm anything but a mufti, but u should also consider the reason why certain hadiths were written and not just follow them blindly without a clue... what say u? :mmhmm:... doesn't take a mufti to know that I deem....

Arabian Prince

26-06-05, 03:59 PM

LOL @ IceTea!

That is the Islamic rulings on the issue and not my view, I'm sure you know the famouse Hadith which states that a woman can't travel one day and night without ma7ram. Even during haaj a woman should travel with ma7ram.

I didn't say they travel to make sins, Allah will judge people and not me or anyone else. But I was only higlighting the travel issue.
My dear brother IceTea... It is quite obvious that my point was not to question Islams rulings here. Infact I will quote myself "regardless of the fact that it could be true." towards the end of my previous post. That should be enough to prove to you that I have no problem with "9i77at il-2amr". However I believe the problem lies in the example itself... What I dont seem to understand is why you chose to pick this particular example for this discussion...
My point is, you might know its right/wrong, but why bring it up in a place like thissss, where "An inevitable portion of those students are with no doubt females, muslim females, most probably from respectful families."

I'm sure you understand my point very clearly now ;)

IceTea

26-06-05, 06:07 PM

actually I heard the opposite... the 7igab is not necessary for old women who've already passed I dunno what age...

If you have clear evidence from Quran or Hadith to support your point then will be nice to share it ...

I'm afraid I'm anything but a mufti, but u should also consider the reason why certain hadiths were written and not just follow them blindly without a clue... what say u? :mmhmm:... doesn't take a mufti to know that I deem....

Knowing the reason is ok but don't go and give your own justifications just to escape from Islamic rulings. Islamic rulings are for all time and place and not just during the prophet pbuh time.

IceTea

26-06-05, 06:10 PM

My dear Ap, that was an example which came in my mind when I post the reply, there is no specfic reason for it ;).

And as I said I didn't dobut any muslim woman, I just pointed out the rulings and Islamic view, that is all :).

MsKnuckles

26-06-05, 06:50 PM

Knowing the reason is ok but don't go and give your own justifications just to escape from Islamic rulings. Islamic rulings are for all time and place and not just during the prophet pbuh time.
knowing the rule is one thing... knowing the reason for the rule is another... and if the reason isn't there then the rule doesn't apply... it's called common sense, not an escape... now who's actin like the mufti here???... many women members in the sabla are independantly studying on their own... and those women are supposed to be made proud of... so i ask u show some respect and stop putting them down, bringing up an example like that!

alhakim

27-06-05, 12:04 AM

yes it HAS been discussed and i stick to my opinion Mr. Hakim... one should keep their traditions and know them but not FOLLOW them anymore brother!!!
u'll find that discussed here...

Traditional beliefs (http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31246)

if u have other objections and are willing to shift the topic from me having a prob with Omani nationality to traditions to somethin else just to look for the slightest fault u could find then go on and shift...

I am not shifting the topic , go back to what u wrote and u will find out why i refered u to that thread .

As for what u wont to do , it is up to ur self , just learn how to respect the openions of the others , this my advise to u.

MsKnuckles

27-06-05, 03:00 AM

E-Sensation

27-06-05, 05:45 AM

I don't know from where to start. As some of the members suggested in the beginning of the thread, one will say 'I love Oman' since that's where they were raised. Same applies with all people. Each one is born with inner love for his/her country. I apologize to the thread starter when I say that the objective of this thread is initially wrong; or that's what I think. Because:

1. if Omnis express their love and proud, some outsiders will go thinking: that's bigotry.

2. on the other hand, if they stated they don't like being an Omani or, at least, they are not fond of the current circumstances they live in, other Omnis will show aggression to these members (which is typical to happen) because they'll feel they should protect the name of their motherland and its way of life.

Therefore, and as controversial as this may sound, I think the best approach to avoid what might come next is to lock the thread, which is a choice I leave to the moderation team... (no offence anyone.) I read all the posts here and there really are so many directions to take. I don't know if I ought to talk about modernization, Islamic regulations and women who study abroad without ma7ram, or how I'd feel if I were an Omani.

Just emphasizing again, I have nothing adjacent to anybody. I just thought I'd contribute what I felt once I read the thread. :)

sweetylee

27-06-05, 06:59 AM

come on guys u cant tell me oman isnt modern!! i think its perfect the way it is!! i mean go back 30 years or less none of u would have been able to make it! there was nothing in oman!! our country has become more modern and has improved so much in the past couple of years i think its unbelivable!!! and whats this about us learning from the westerners!! wht makes u think they cant learn from us?? our traditions make us speical! i mean i'm half western and frankly i love oman much more then the west and omanis have better qualities then the westerners!! just because we keep intouch with out tradition doesnt make us unmodern or uncivilizied!! we can more the most modern country in the world and still be traditional!! i mean look at america they dont even have something called tradition, there are so many different personalities in america they dont have a original traditional dress like we do! we have a tradition so be proud of it!!

alhakim

27-06-05, 11:56 AM

alhakim, if there's one thing I do then that is respect other's opinions... but I would unfortunately not respect those who have no respect in the first place... ilmuhim my point is still clear through the link that I provided...

All members her are respected and they always will be , some are old enough to have children as old as u , if u do wont to respect them then it's ur problem , just remember if u donot have something in the first place then u wont be able to give it , as the saying ' faqidu alshai la yuteeh '.

Arabian Prince

27-06-05, 01:53 PM

Some very wise words from E-Sensation!! :rolleyes:

I would have to agree. Come to think of it, I'm sure the thread opener and all its participants have expressed their sense of belonging, patriotism and other related views suffieciently in the 90+ posts. Isn't that enough?
Apart from that I really can't see why every single thread has to have its spoilers. Why the tension created here? Why the hostility?

(PS. alhakim with no offense and all due respect, I cannot comprehend the fact that you have to drag age into everything. This is not a real life sabla where age speaks for itself. This is an iternet forum where everyone is able of speaking their minds and expressing their views freely, without the age (respect of elders) fator, having to keep up certain barriers.
I understand, value and respect these ideals, however I don't think age should create any sort of barrier in discussions, debates or points of views whatsoever.)

MsKnuckles

27-06-05, 02:10 PM

All members her are respected and they always will be , some are old enough to have children as old as u , if u do wont to respect them then it's ur problem , just remember if u donot have something in the first place then u wont be able to give it , as the saying ' faqidu alshai la yuteeh '.
u make no sense to me... I said I have respect for others but not for those who don't have it in the first place.... so what relevance has ur comments got to do with mine? Indeed some members are older... and I believe those are the members who should show the most respect since they'd be set as an example to the younger ones... I'm not the one who attacked u here... and to me an attacker should be attacked in return... so plz just stop talkin about respect, whatever it means to u... live and let live... this is a silly thing to discuss :rolleyes:
and indeed in sabla's case... age shouldn't be an issue :bored:

IceTea

27-06-05, 03:28 PM

knowing the rule is one thing... knowing the reason for the rule is another... and if the reason isn't there then the rule doesn't apply... it's called common sense, not an escape... now who's actin like the mufti here???... many women members in the sabla are independantly studying on their own... and those women are supposed to be made proud of... so i ask u show some respect and stop putting them down, bringing up an example like that!

Are you suggesting that if the woman is strong then she doesn't need ma7ram with her as per Islamic rule? You are acting like a mufti and giving exceptions to Islamic rulings.

How about eating pork, you can also say if the meat doesn't harm then it's ok to eat it or drinking small glass of alcohol is ok as it won't affact the person!

MsKnuckles

27-06-05, 05:02 PM

then again dear IT... and again: studying abroad alone and eating pork are two different catagories... I am no muftee... but even I who am not as religious as u are know this :mmhmm:... I've no desire to quarrel about this since I am actually proud of the women out there who are on their way to independance... u can think whatever u want... but to me that is something to be proud of...

MsKnuckles

27-06-05, 05:19 PM

come on guys u cant tell me oman isnt modern!! i think its perfect the way it is! i mean go back 30 years or less none of u would have been able to make it! there was nothing in oman!! our country has become more modern and has improved so much in the past couple of years i think its unbelivable!!! and whats this about us learning from the westerners!! wht makes u think they cant learn from us?? our traditions make us speical! i mean i'm half western and frankly i love oman much more then the west and omanis have better qualities then the westerners!! just because we keep intouch with out tradition doesnt make us unmodern or uncivilizied!! we can more the most modern country in the world and still be traditional!! i mean look at america they dont even have something called tradition, there are so many different personalities in america they dont have a original traditional dress like we do! we have a tradition so be proud of it!!
sweetylee: just because our country has become more modern in 30 years (which is indeed a great thing)... doesn't mean that they should stop developing and enjoy the harmony :mmhmm: ... ofcourse it's wonderful and unbelievable... which is why they shouldn't stop, cuz the more advanced they become the better...
I agree with the fact that the west could also learn from us just as we learn from them... nothing negative in that... but what do u mean by keeping in touch with tradition?? in what way??
just because we keep intouch with out tradition doesnt make us unmodern or uncivilizied!! u missed the point here... some traditions do hold us back SL... I'm not saying all... maybe just a few... but they still do, frankly speaking
...plus... I am sorry to say this sweetylee... but as I know u... u are far from being a traditional person, so based on what do u say this?
Plus... I am sorry again... but I don't think it fair for u to compare Oman to USA traditionalwise... so what if we have a traditional dress... it may resemble our country but what then?? what are u saying here that americans have no sense of belonging?? They have their own virtues, they shouldn't be put down like that... especially from someone like u :think: (not like the jeans and T-shirts u people wear now adays are not american :eh: )... a lot comes from america... no hard feelings there and I mean no offense... but everyone should be respected... it's not right for u to try and put urself up by looking down on others...

sweetylee

28-06-05, 02:31 AM

well this all depends on wht u consider traditional cuz to me tradion is to respect the olders and be giving and follow or traditions during Eid and ramadhan and so on! tht is wht i consider traditional!! and excuse me but i think i'm half american so i'm not effending the americans or putting myself above them!! saying that they dont have a tradional dress isnt effending them!! and who ever said oman has stopped developing?? it still is and will always be a developing country!!...triple T could u pllzzz explain to me what kind of person u would consider a traditional person??!!

MsKnuckles

28-06-05, 02:45 AM

someone who'd rather follow a traditional concept rather than practice modern methods... when I say tradition is holding us back... what I mean is that people get so used to their old lives that they are afraid of changes !!... the biggest example is the interior... people still live there like they used to live 30 years ago... they keep getting 10 to 20 children and let them run around without education or care... I know people who don't even remember their children or grandchildren's names cuz there are so many!!... what would u call that?? plz tell me!!!
I know u are half american which is why I was surprised u said that... "Americans have no traditions but we have so we should be proud of it!!"... how would that sound to other americans who read this??... I just know that if I were an american I'd get offended by that... that's all....
but anyways... since u've explained what traditions u are talking about that is quite clear...

sweetylee

28-06-05, 03:44 AM

since when is having 10-20 kids part of tradition??? bil 3aks the people in the interioir have improved so much! my father came from there and when he was a young boy he lived in a hut with no electricity or running water! the interior isnt like that anymore they have proper houses with electricity and water!! how is that not accepting changes???!! as far as americans having tradition is all depends on where they originally came from because everyone in america came from some where and it depends on each family and their family traditions that they carry on to their children so basically america doesnt have a original tradition to keep like we do! all the traditions came from else where! and if my statements did effend americans then i would be effending myself and my family and honestly i'm not! what i'm saying is true and everyone knows it! there is no such thing and an original american unless u count the red indians because every one in american came from somewhere else so thats why there isnt a tradition only personal family traditions...!!

IceTea

28-06-05, 08:00 AM

the biggest example is the interior... people still live there like they used to live 30 years ago... they keep getting 10 to 20 children and let them run around without education or care... I know people who don't even remember their children or grandchildren's names cuz there are so many!!... what would u call that?? plz tell me!!!

Are you saying that the Omani government not developing the interior region and not buliding schools, hospitals, etc, what kind of talk this is 3T, do you want to be caught by the government for saying such thing like they live with the same standards as the time of Sultan Said bin Taymour time.

It seems to me you don't have an idea about interior and you are just gossiping like old women do, get your facts right dear. And there are exceptions everywhere even in Muscat. And anyway having many kids is part of sunnah and there is a Hadith saying "Tanak7o tanasalo fainy mufa'7ir bikum al umam".

MsKnuckles

28-06-05, 12:57 PM

it is no crime to speak one's mind and there's nothing wrong with saying people are still living in the old age there, so don't try to twist my words or start useless threats that'll never happen since the government know better than to catch people for silly things... I'm afraid I know a lot more than u do about the interior since I am speaking out of things I've seen for my myself and since the interior is my origin... so think twice before u talk...... what I'm talking about is the people's state of mind... not the government or the buildings... the people... did that get to ur head yet???... and about the children... god might have nothing against having a lot of children AS LONG as they're not neglected... I don't believe that hadith or sunna says get as many children as u can get!! A woman is not a birth machine!!! It is WRONG to have so many children who aren't taken care of and who're roaming around in the street... everyone knows what I'm talking about... if u have difficulties understanding my language then discussing with me, or more like arguing with me won't help u understand it any better... but ilmuhim what I said was my point (full stop)

MsKnuckles

28-06-05, 01:14 PM

sweetylee:... I know the american history and am quite aware that they don't have a tradition... or have it in their own families.... but then tell me how would that make us better??? they have no traditions, so what?? can u plz tell me?? They have no traditions but they're developing tremendously!
I just know that I personally wouldn't moan about not having a tradition... and moreover:... traditions are described as what our grandfathers and the ones before them used to do... so I would consider children a part of tradition since they used to do it before and they keep on doing it now... the buildings might've changed a bit... now there's electricity indeed... but u realize people's rutines remain the same and don't change!!... to sum it all up... obviously they ARE developing bit by bit... but it's gonna take time for it to develope since people are so used to their old lives and are afraid of changes!! meaning they're changing slowly because they're used to their old habits... that's basically what I'm trying to show as a negative side to traditions... if that's offending any traditional person then excuse me... this is just my point of view and what I see when I go to the interior... is it any clearer??

IceTea

28-06-05, 01:40 PM

That is what you only think based on your limited knowledge even if your origin is from there, it doesn't means what you say is right. If there are some people decided to live as in the old ages then it's up to them but don't go and generalize and bash innocent people with your nonesense like not educated or catagorize yourself as higher than them since you have few rials extra.

Having many kids is the couple problem and it's not up to you to limit people to how many kids they want to have and taking care of them is their own responsbility and not yours. How many of them complain to you for help to take care of their kids, just mind your own business 3T.

MsKnuckles

28-06-05, 02:06 PM

IT... u really like shifting don't u?... very well... I'll play along then.. here goes:
-first of all... if u read what I said, u'll see I said that I've gone there and seen it myself... it being my origin would increase the chances of me knowing what I'm talking about...
-second of all... this is not the point of me nosing into people's business... this is a discussion of what a person thinks is right or wrong in their point of views...
-third of all... I am not talking in terms of the family I am talking in terms of the country... so what relevance has "It's their life, let them live in whatever way they want" got to do with the negative points I pointed out?? just cuz it's their business does not convert the whole scene to it being right! I can only hope they would see the illness in what they're doing and change themselves since it's not my job to change them.
-fourth of all: don't flip it all up saying that I put them down cuz I got money... plus what makes u think that I do? they CAN change if they want to... this is not a money issue... so please make more sense here...
-fifth and last of all: people getting more children would effect themselves... and if u say they're poor then indeed they SHOULDN'T get more children, or what would u say??... I'm just pointing out what is wrong... and since most of these parents aren't educated, they need help... or at least need someone to tell them or show them what they're doing...
if u say leave everyone be... then why the hell are we discussing things here??? khalas, think for urself and let everyone live their lives as they want to... inshalla they pollute the whole country or produce more children who'll have it hard on them to find a job later since there are so many unemployed young people in Oman... khalas, let it be la?? it's not ur problem ma sa7?? so u shouldn't give a hoop of what's going on around u!!... in that case u don't have to discuss with me... go ur own way and let me go on mine... adios amegos!

alhakim

28-06-05, 02:20 PM

people getting more children would effect themselves... and if u say they're poor then indeed they SHOULDN'T get more children

وَمَا مِن دَآبَّةٍ فِي الأَرْضِ إِلاَّ عَلَى اللّهِ رِزْقُهَا وَيَعْلَمُ مُسْتَقَرَّهَا وَمُسْتَوْدَعَهَا كُلٌّ فِي كِتَابٍ مُّبِينٍ (6)

There is no moving creature on earth but its sustenance dependeth on Allah: He knoweth the time and place of its definite abode and its temporary deposit: All is in a clear Record.

وَلاَ تَقْتُلُواْ أَوْلادَكُمْ خَشْيَةَ إِمْلاقٍ نَّحْنُ نَرْزُقُهُمْ وَإِيَّاكُم إنَّ قَتْلَهُمْ كَانَ خِطْءًا كَبِيرًا (31)

Slay not your children, fearing a fall to poverty, We shall provide for them and for you. Lo! the slaying of them is great sin.

IceTea

28-06-05, 02:25 PM

IT... u really like shifting don't u?... very well... I'll play along then.. here goes:
-first of all... if u read what I said, u'll see I said that I've gone there and seen it myself... it being my origin would increase the chances of me knowing what I'm talking about...

What have you seen exactly? did it ever crossed your mind that people living standards can also be based on their income, ya3ny is there are poor people don't imagine they will live in a high class life compared to rich people.

-second of all... this is not the point of me nosing into people's business... this is a discussion of what a person thinks is right or wrong in their point of views...

You can say what you want but you have to be realastic and logical in your views otherwise you are just wasting my time in replying to u ..

-third of all... I am not talking in terms of the family I am talking in terms of the country... so what relevance has "It's their life, let them live in whatever way they want" got to do with the negative points I pointed out?? just cuz it's their business does not convert the whole scene to it being right! I can only hope they would see the illness in what they're doing and change themselves since it's not my job to change them.

If you are talking about country then why you only talk about interior people, see you are contradicting yourself 3T. Again what is not right, people living in a low standards doesn't mean it's not right, every family got it's own capabilities to live with.

-fourth of all: don't flip it all up saying that I put them down cuz I got money... plus what makes u think that I do? they CAN change if they want to... this is not a money issue... so please make more sense here...

Did it ever crossed your mind that maybe some parents not able to send their kids for education due to lack of money, so yes money is an issue as well ..

-fifth and last of all: people getting more children would effect themselves...
and if u say they're poor then indeed they SHOULDN'T get more children, or what would u say??... I'm just pointing out what is wrong... and since most of these parents aren't educated, they need help... or at least need someone !

Even if they are poor, it doesn't mean they should not have kids, if they are able to raise them well then there is no problem in that. Money is not everything. You will find some rich families have kids but money will spoil them. How do you know most of the parents not educated, do you have official statistics, ofcourse there are old people who didn't have the chance to study as we have today but that doesn't means they are unable to run their families.

MsKnuckles

28-06-05, 02:27 PM

mimosa

28-06-05, 02:30 PM

IceTea

28-06-05, 02:33 PM

cuz I believe that having children requires a great responsibility... and if u don't have what it takes then it's not right for u to make them whether they're a blessing or not.

The whole marraige is a great resp. so I believe a couple should know about this otherwise they won't get married in the first place. If they are having kids and just don't care about them, don't teach them about Islam,etc. then you are right but if they are able to raise them then there is no problem.

IceTea

28-06-05, 02:38 PM

وَمَا مِن دَآبَّةٍ فِي الأَرْضِ إِلاَّ عَلَى اللّهِ رِزْقُهَا وَيَعْلَمُ مُسْتَقَرَّهَا وَمُسْتَوْدَعَهَا كُلٌّ فِي كِتَابٍ مُّبِينٍ (6)

There is no moving creature on earth but its sustenance dependeth on Allah: He knoweth the time and place of its definite abode and its temporary deposit: All is in a clear Record.

وَلاَ تَقْتُلُواْ أَوْلادَكُمْ خَشْيَةَ إِمْلاقٍ نَّحْنُ نَرْزُقُهُمْ وَإِيَّاكُم إنَّ قَتْلَهُمْ كَانَ خِطْءًا كَبِيرًا (31)

Slay not your children, fearing a fall to poverty, We shall provide for them and for you. Lo! the slaying of them is great sin.

Thanks brother ;).

MsKnuckles

28-06-05, 02:40 PM

IT man... lol... u just said something that went against ur own statement... if parents don't have the money to send their children to school... why would they make them in the first place??? Would u consider that fair?? Fair to the child at least??... plus... I said it's not about money ... people have goats and farms and what not... don't tell me such people don't have money!!... I actually do not call the way they live low standards... :mmhmm:.... but it's just that they didn't change from the past few years... I dunno about u man... but maybe someone out there'll understand what I'm saying... plus... I say money is not an issue cuz people are actually sticking to that life... they want no other... :mmhmm:... ofcourse there are schools and whatsoever, but the standard of education there and in muscat isn't the same... why in the world are u defending something that's true... I'm not an enemy cussing those people... I am from them and come within that area... i only want to do what's best to help my people... :hmm:

IceTea

28-06-05, 02:47 PM

Well they are hoping they will enter government univ, etc for education. They might however end up with high school degree which isn't bad ..

3T, I stated above that there are some people (e.g bedwin) who maintain same standard of living and they don't want to change, maybe you are refering to these group of people. Even toomuchat mentioned once that the government built some homes for them but they continue to live under the tents and left the homes for the goats.

MsKnuckles

28-06-05, 02:51 PM

LooOooL... ok... inshalla ila7wal bititsala7 by time... I guess u're right.... u can't help who doesn't want to be helped ....peace man! :hehe:

Pineapple Thief

28-06-05, 03:02 PM

Forgive me, what does all this have to do with being omani? :p i skipped 4 pages...

alhakim

28-06-05, 03:03 PM

alhakim... this is not about slaying children or anything as such... this is about couples not getting too many children since it would effect them and their children... if u can't take care of them properly then u shouldn't make them in the first place. Cuz making them like this and neglecting them is a worse sin than not making them at all... I'm sure god didn't ask for that... cuz I believe that having children requires a great responsibility... and if u don't have what it takes then it's not right for u to make them whether they're a blessing or not.

The english translation gives the meaning literally of the aya.. but if you want the whole translation & meaning then according go & ask the scholars about this aya & the will tell you its not only about slaying the kids...limited knowlage is a big problem .

who told you that people with a large no. of children neglect them...there are people even with one or two still may negelct their kids..
by the way look at the secoundry school results in oman & tell me where the bright students come from....have a look at the magazines & see their photoes..& many will have siblings with the same high markses.(interior where large No of kids exist more).

I know a family of 21 kids all of them are well educated: docs, enginners, PHD holders...men & women & this could be said to many families in the interior.

alhakim

28-06-05, 03:12 PM

Hakim, I know what you're trying to say: that "Allah will provide"

But your two quotes say that all creatures depend on Allah and that infanticide is a sin: That does not justify irresponsible attitudes to your own family. By your own logic, you imply that it would be OK to have fifteen children and leave them all in the desert like unwanted kittnes if your couldnt feed them because "Allah would take care of them".
But that's not the real way forward is it? You have your kids and YOU take care of them as a parental responsibility. Taking care of family planning to ensure you can do the best by your kisd is not against Islam, is it?

Islam is a complete way of life, if it says that allah would provide it has also made the head of the family the responsibility to look after whoever is under his domain. your line above came from your own thoughts not my words not Allah's command..its ok to have as many children because if you seek to provide for them allah has promissed you success.(you dnt take some thing from islam & neglect other)... it deals as community not one thing.

Arabian Prince

28-06-05, 03:33 PM

Forgive me, what does all this have to do with being omani? i skipped 4 pages...
You just don't understand how re-assuring it could be to have someone on the same page as you are! :D

mimosa

28-06-05, 04:13 PM

Hakim,

Seeking to provide for them means living according to your means, don't you think? Having ten children when you cn only afford five is not "seeking to provide", it is ignoring reality.

IceTea

28-06-05, 05:00 PM

mimosa,

You are forgeting one thing here which is in our Islamic society a family means a lot of things. First of all if they have 10 kids doesn't mean they will come in 4 or 5 years time, but will take many years. So by that time the first kids will already be working and therefore they will also help the parents and their sisters/brothers financialy. We are not living in a western world where everyone is own his own business and doesn't care about other members of the family.

MsKnuckles

28-06-05, 05:19 PM

ahhh I beg to differ people... mimosa is not talking about the years it takes to make children, he's talking about the ability or the means to look after them in general!!... I really don't get ur arguments there...
hakim: yes .. truly... people in the interior get high grades indeed and work hard for it... so that's either talking about parents who care for their children or children who work hard in order to get out of there... which don't fit in the catagory I'm talking about!! I am talking about parents who make and neglect there children which is clearly OBVIOUS in some parts of Oman not even necessarily the interior.... ANY family ANYWHERE shouldn't make more children than they can handle (period)... BECAUSE it's a responsability... and don't tell me such cases don't exist in Oman... and I say the interior BECAUSE that's where most of these people are, regardless of the other families who DO care for their children... plus u should think of the reason why interior kids work hard to get a good grade... cuz if u're one of 20 brothers and sisters... u would want to work hard to get out of there... or at least I know I would...

IceTea

28-06-05, 05:27 PM

ANY family ANYWHERE shouldn't make more children than they can handle (period)... BECAUSE it's a responsability...

It's not only the parents duty but also the country duty to provide jobs to those young people, if there are lack of jobs, who do you blame?

And I say the interior BECAUSE that's where most of these people are,

You are making it sounds like if interior people are making crimes by having kids! And who told you most of them from there, do you have official statistics or it's out of your brain? Did you visit other areas and carry out a detailed survey?

alhakim

28-06-05, 06:47 PM

hakim: yes .. truly... people in the interior get high grades indeed and work hard for it... so that's either talking about parents who care for their children or children who work hard in order to get out of there... which don't fit in the catagory I'm talking about!! I am talking about parents who make and neglect there children which is clearly OBVIOUS in some parts of Oman not even necessarily the interior.... ANY family ANYWHERE shouldn't make more children than they can handle (period)... BECAUSE it's a responsability... and don't tell me such cases don't exist in Oman... and I say the interior BECAUSE that's where most of these people are, regardless of the other families who DO care for their children... plus u should think of the reason why interior kids work hard to get a good grade... cuz if u're one of 20 brothers and sisters... u would want to work hard to get out of there... or at least I know I would...

Which categorry are you really reffering at....you didnt even say some of omanies??

not too sure about its people though

Omani people might be good in developing their country CR... but they should give a little more thought to developing themselves

But I really thought that you wanted us to develpoe our thoughts ,,which really comes with education to start with..which you dnt seem to apprecite that they acheive.

MOST of the people in oman need to develope their thoughts MOSTLY...

Who said that all of those students study hard to go out of there...did you do a survey.. we worked hard for our studies but still we are there because we beleive that we belong to our interior...may be its something you dnt appreciate since you are not from interior.

alhakim

28-06-05, 07:15 PM

Hakim,

Seeking to provide for them means living according to your means, don't you think? Having ten children when you cn only afford five is not "seeking to provide", it is ignoring reality.

إِنَّ اللَّهَ عِندَهُ عِلْمُ السَّاعَةِ وَيُنَزِّلُ الْغَيْثَ وَيَعْلَمُ مَا فِي الْأَرْحَامِ وَمَا تَدْرِي نَفْسٌ مَّاذَا تَكْسِبُ غَدًا وَمَا تَدْرِي نَفْسٌ بِأَيِّ أَرْضٍ تَمُوتُ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ خَبِيرٌ (34)
Verily the knowledge of the Hour is with Allah (alone). It is He Who sends down rain, and He Who knows what is in the wombs. Nor does any one know what it is that he will earn on the morrow: Nor does any one know in what land he is to die. Verily with Allah is full knowledge and He is acquainted (with all things).

The reality is that we (me , you & every humanbeing) know nothing about the future or our future means, we all know though that anything could happen anytime & we have no hold on our fate....whether we have 1 , 2, 3, or even 20 kids it doesnt make a differnnce as Rizq is already written up there...we are here on earth to provide the best we can & leave the rest for allah..& we if me as a muslim give the excuses you gave then i will be a person who care more for his life in Dunya & doesnt know that akhira is the most important to leave for.... WE ARE HERE TEMPORARLY....we have one reason to be be on earth:

وَمَا خَلَقْتُ الْجِنَّ وَالْإِنسَ إِلَّا لِيَعْبُدُونِ (56)
I created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship Me.

قُلْ يَا قَوْمِ اعْمَلُوا عَلَى مَكَانَتِكُمْ إِنِّي عَامِلٌ فَسَوْفَ تَعْلَمُونَ (39)
Say: "O my People! Do whatever ye can: I will do (my part): but soon will ye know-

alhakim

28-06-05, 10:25 PM

Dear A.Prince,
am sorry that i have just noticed your below-quoted post & so this is my reply:

(PS. alhakim with no offense and all due respect, I cannot comprehend the fact that you have to drag age into everything. This is not a real life sabla where age speaks for itself. This is an iternet forum where everyone is able of speaking their minds and expressing their views freely, without the age (respect of elders) fator, having to keep up certain barriers.
I understand, value and respect these ideals, however I don't think age should create any sort of barrier in discussions, debates or points of views whatsoever.)

The truth is I havent draged the age-thing every where. when i mensioned it earlier in another thread was an answer to tripple T's post:

I have lived and seen just as much my friend if not more

so it was answer /clarification to TTT that she couldnt have seen more than what i did...infact i got a reputation comment saying :I wanted to mention the age difference good you did

alhakim

28-06-05, 10:29 PM

now going to your other post... & since you like to read other people's opnion... I decided to tell you what was my opinion when i first saw this post of yours:

I believe that TripleTee's views are the most positive views. True its mostly criticism, but I think its all constructional criticism.

I had a lough , seriously ,,,cause there is nothing positive about it , neither constructive..please elaborate more as none of these words fits with what you said! to think positive: is to appreciate what we acheived & asked for more...to look negative : is to say: omanies thoughts are not developed...imagine & the sultan thought all the time that he acheived something!!! :eh: .

alhakim

28-06-05, 10:31 PM

secound good criticism doesnt fit here at all..critism means to point out the pitfulls & weakness in a comunity but not to say:

not too sure about its people though ....

this is what I see, I ain't askin anyone to agree..

develope their traditional beliefs as has been discussed previously... such things...
a feeling they're slayin off and spending their time on useless things... even though some do great jobs, for those who don't matters won't get any better for them if they don't move on... honestly some get on my nerves... cuz it ain't right to complain if u'r a lazy bumm urself...

To generalise wronging others & throwing wards here & there with no solid proof & no sense of good argument is not called a good critisism..its called favourism from your part.. i would accept that.
__________________

MsKnuckles

29-06-05, 12:22 AM

I am sorry to have hurt ur feelings alhakim... but my critisism is only for the best!! as an example: if I was wrong in something and a person critisized my mistakes.. instead of blowing up and rolling all over him/her I'd just simply take his/her advise and try to improve... u speak without a background...

It's not only the parents duty but also the country duty to provide jobs to those young people, if there are lack of jobs, who do you blame?
oh yes ofcourse IT!! why haven't I ever thought of that?? go on then... go ahead and make 20 to 30 children and then blame the country for not giving them enough jobs :bored: ......

You are making it sounds like if interior people are making crimes by having kids! And who told you most of them from there, do you have official statistics or it's out of your brain? Did you visit other areas and carry out a detailed survey?
but my dear... crime is too strong a word... I'd consider it more like a sin ;)... since it's not right to make children who won't be well taken care of... go ahead and deny that then... I wanna hear u say it's 7alal :mmhmm:
oh... pardon me!! I didn't know I was in court so I had to bring proved surveys to support what I say... did I miss something in the thread... have u provided any proofs I failed to spot... oh dear... say what? Nothing? dear me... I'm given a hard time by someone who doesn't practice what he preaches... I am very sorry... but in this case u will just have to take my word for it since I said I have seen and know people like that... I'm not about to beg u to believe me... this is all my opinion on the matter through what I've seen... and there's nothing WRONG with that since it is only for the best!! I am not insulting any Omanies alhakim... since I AM an Omani and COME from the interior, so sorry to bust your bubble... but u throw words without understanding... do not bring the sultan into this since I know that he is one who supports education... this is about omanies themselves and their traditions... just because it doesn't agree with ur arguments doesn't make it bad or worthless...

secound good criticism doesnt fit here at all..critism means to point out the pitfulls & weakness in a comunity but not to say:
yes... that's one thing u got right brother... indeed I was critisizing as in pointing out the negative points in Oman since I've been ASKED to... but have u ever thought of the purpose of my critisism... are u going to praise something u see is wrong?? If u saw an essay written badly would u go like : Ahh! wonderfully written... how marvellous!!!...... ofcourse u would be kind if u did that my friend... but it won't bring any benefit to the student... since he'll never learn his mistakes.... I have seen things around me and just pointed out what I saw was wrong... whether u agree with me or not, I don't care... as long as I get my point through.... and thank u very much

alhakim

29-06-05, 01:28 AM

I am sorry to have hurt ur feelings alhakim... but my critisism is only for the best!! as an example: if I was wrong in something and a person critisized my mistakes.. instead of blowing up and rolling all over him/her I'd just simply take his/her advise and try to improve... u speak without a background...

Actually you seem to give hypothesis, theories & then a scientific proof of so many things in your mind especieely mensioning things like BLOW-Up & roll-over??!!complaining?!!, including hurting my feelings(.. beleive me it take better persons to hurt me..& guess what I am very proud of what prophet Mohammad has praised us(omanies) & asked allah with a marvelous du33a. so I think i will care less for someone like you to say otherwise.
as for critisising , am sorry but you know nothing about this word no you truely accept critisim, cos you always have been having a problem with people who dnt accept your views , if have a problem knowing that just read your posts again.
to critisise to point out the solid things you have , not Thoughts,,& I have seen .... ok if you want to talk about seeing.Havent you seen teachers who works in differnt villages far from their own cos they have no plcaes in their own village school, including female married women staying far from their husbands waitting for new appointement.. havent you seen doctors who take few weekends off, & few time off from their work..working 31 hrs standing on feet ever 4th day , did you see the cleaners & porters around hospitals, airports etc. or may be you havent heard females in majlis alshoora & as ministers...NOW WHO HAS A SOLID BACKGROUND.

When you critisise , you dnt say that the whole nation or even most of it do not develope theirselves..speak about yourself..see how many people on this board only are writting .

yes... that's one thing u got right brother... indeed I was critisizing as in pointing out the negative points in Oman since I've been ASKED
The good news is you were never asked to , you just blow up an idea in a thread which talk about being proud to be omani!!

to... but have u ever thought of the purpose of my critisism... are u going to praise something u see is wrong?? If u saw an essay written badly would u go like : Ahh! wonderfully written... how marvellous!!!...... ofcourse u would be kind if u did that my friend... but it won't bring any benefit to the student... since he'll never learn his mistakes.... I have seen things around me and just pointed out what I saw was wrong... whether u agree with me or not, I don't care... as long as I get my point through.
... and thank u very much
The critisiam doesnt mean to say wrong things about right things..thats rubbish.. unless its wrong then critises it..& Generalising wrong doing of my nation is not correct.. we beleive The greateness belongs to Allah alone, No one is perfect.. but hay this
Omani people might be good in developing their country CR... but they should give a little more thought to developing themselves is far from critism.. please do much more homework. & remember we said that we are developing ourselves , that means we are not perfeect , we wont need more developing. if we were . do we??

bow is something you could frightend your dog with, you need to learn some manners / using better words ,with what you have learned so far..you will need it to grow up.

MsKnuckles

29-06-05, 02:13 AM

LoOoL.. now mister alhakim... I really wish i could understand what teachers working out of their countries and doctors got to do with anything I said... oh yes... the ladies being ministers thing has reached my ear sir hakim... no need to get all high on it, ur not the only one with that kinda background... but how impressive that was!!! :) u amaze me now...
the prophet has praised Omanies,has he?... oh that means khalas!!! we were praised... and that praise rules all I guess eh? :)... any sins we do won't count for we were praised! :D LOL... u talk like I've been insulting them all along... it seems like someone defines critisism yet doesn't know the concept... if u're trying achieve being right by saying others have no knowledge and u're too proud and stubborn to listen to other points of views... well then I really can't help u there since u'd stubbornly reject whatever I say no matter how right I am anyway... and since u have no sense of discussion I must pass on this one... I am terribly sorry I couldn't reach up to ur level ;)... my fault I guess... so all that I've said was throwing words after all eh?... and all u've done I guess was take the info from one ear and throw it out from the other... I see u've grasped or understood nothing I said... which would make it useless for me to keep on discussing this ... khalas ya akhee... I can't make sense out of or convince someone who doesn't wanna be convinced... we're getting nowhere...

& remember we said that we are developing ourselves , that means we are not perfeect , we wont need more developing. if we were . do we??
everything needs improvement... I learnt that saying in elementary :)

The good news is you were never asked to , you just blow up an idea in a thread which talk about being proud to be omani!!
another good thing is... if u scroll up the other pages u'll see how the discussion came to this ;)... do u only read titles my friend??... ever thought of reading its content?... surely this is about whether ppl are proub to be omanies and I recall that I said I was... but just pointed out some points which I was not so proud of... and so on and so forth... ofcourse others came in and started arguing that point... u see no one was throwing words brother... just ur illusion....

The critisiam doesnt mean to say wrong things about right things..thats rubbish..
woohoo... that was an example of throwing words now... so u consider all the negative points I've mentioned right??... and since u consider it that way that mean it HAS to be right ma sa7??... say rubbish once again :D ohh... u said it right out of my mouth.. :shy:

is something you could frightend your dog with, you need to learn some manners / using better words ,with what you have learned so far..you will need it to grow up.what... sorry?... could u repeat that in english please??... did the word bow offend u??... oh pardon me messuier... :mmhmm:.. learn better words?? have u nothing else to say than to complain about my words?... no offense man but how pathetic... manners u say?? well it isn't like u've approached me as a total gentleman now, is it? ... speaking of manners that is... so excuse me... I am really done here... i couldn't have explained it more than this... it is upto u to agree or not... woo bas!! khalas... for real...

MsKnuckles

29-06-05, 02:34 AM

By the way alhakim... isn't your wife a doctor??... by the nick of "um albanin"???

alhakim

29-06-05, 02:54 AM

By the way alhakim... isn't your wife a doctor??... by the nick of "um albanin"???
Yes she IS, I am married to this wonderful lady, we are partners, friends and colleges and I will tell u one thing, if she still writing she would wouldn’t be as patient as me, she is not the type to accept any thing to be said about Oman or Omanies

MsKnuckles

29-06-05, 02:59 AM

yes well hakim, whatever she is... you can control your wife but u can't control me...

alhakim

29-06-05, 03:02 AM

yes well hakim, whatever she is... you can control your wife but u can't control me...

control !!!!!!!!!!!

MsKnuckles

29-06-05, 03:06 AM

oh... yes I believe that's the word I used... I guess u know perfectly well what I'm talking about ;)

alhakim

29-06-05, 03:13 AM

oh... yes I believe that's the word I used... I guess u know perfectly well what I'm talking about ;)

I THINK U HAVE NOTHING TO SAY ABOUT THE THREAD

LEAVE ME AND MY WIFE OUT OF THIS THREAD , WHAT WE HAVE IS BEYOND UR UNDERSTANDING . :p

MsKnuckles

29-06-05, 03:20 AM

... oOh... what have we here? did I just touch a nerve? :)...hehe... truly true, I've already said what I had to ...

Lym

29-06-05, 07:52 AM

The last few posts of the argument was not a joy to read . I thought people could discuss a topic as sensitive as our country in a civilised manner. I guess , I was wrong. :(
I totally understand where 3T is coming from , but I also consider Hakim's explanation , you guys don't have to prove eachother wrong , just accept one another ideas. Thats the right way to go in the sabla :mmhmm:
Agree to disagree :rolleyes:

IceTea

29-06-05, 10:47 AM

oh yes ofcourse IT!! why haven't I ever thought of that?? go on then... go ahead and make 20 to 30 children and then blame the country for not giving them enough jobs :bored: ......

Well if it's written to have 20 or 30 kids, I don't need your permission to have them. And the country have a responsibility as well in providing enough and suitable jobs for the people. What the country income and resources if not used to make people live in a decent way, it's a shared responsibility 3T.

but my dear... crime is too strong a word... I'd consider it more like a sin ;)... since it's not right to make children who won't be well taken care of... go ahead and deny that then... I wanna hear u say it's 7alal :mmhmm:
oh... pardon me!! I didn't know I was in court so I had to bring proved surveys to support what I say... did I miss something in the thread... have u provided any proofs I failed to spot... oh dear... say what? Nothing? dear me... I'm given a hard time by someone who doesn't practice what he preaches... I am very sorry... but in this case u will just have to take my word for it since I said I have seen and know people like that... I'm not about to beg u to believe me... this is all my opinion on the matter through what I've seen... and there's nothing WRONG with that since it is only for the best!!

Provide me with a clear evidence either from Quran or Hadith that having many kids is a sin, I don't think there are normal parents who will have kids and then throw them in the streets or don't care about them. You are still not married and you will understand such thing when you become a mother. Hopfully you will be a good mother who will take care of her kids, even a cat or any animal will take care of it's kids let alone human beings.!

Well you are the one who claim and said many of them from the interior, so you should present a solid proof to support your claims otherwise it's all wrong.

MsKnuckles

29-06-05, 01:03 PM

ya akhee ya IceTea... awalan... try to understand what I'm saying... u say all parents take care of their 20 kids equally??? well then that must be a mother with 20 hands... such amazing skills... this is not about the number of kids only... this is about the ability to raise them in an exceptional way... if u have the capability to do that, then halalooya, but don't say that all parents take care of their kids all the way... cuz that's false... yes! maybe the country should consider providing the kids jobs... but until now... there are hardly any, as a reminder... so parents should consider that as well and stop producing :mmhmm:... u don't blame others for ur mistakes... if ur kid's educated enough, he/she'll get the job... there's a competition going on... not anyone can overtake any job!!... there are many indians occupying many jobs because they're preferred... and why? because Omanies cost almost double... and above all that, they're lazy.... plus.... they're too proud to accept any job u realize!!!... if u ask one to work as a carpenter they'll give u a look and go like '3eeb 3any!!... all the accupations they consider good is being a doctor, an engineer and what not!!... and don't tell me that's not true cuz I'm sure many would agree on that... even omanies themselves :bored:... so khalas man... I'm not gonna start discussing jobs here... I apologize to microscope man... after all I'm still proud to be an omani... since it is my country... and let this be the end of it....

1+1+1=ones

06-07-05, 09:03 AM

I miss Oman very much ........ all of you guy's have to be proud to Omanies .,,,..

1+1+1=ones

06-07-05, 10:07 AM

[COLOR=Sienna]thOmanies cost almost double... and above all that, they're lazy.... plus.... they're too proud to accept any job u realize!!!... if u ask one to work as a carpenter they'll give u a look and go like '3eeb 3any!!... all the accupations they consider good is being a doctor, an engineer and what not!!... and don't tell me that's not true cuz I'm sure many would agree on that...

first off all Omanies are not lazys (tt)... mybe you dont know realllly omanies thats why you are saying that ...... i can tell you and mybe you know ... Omanies are the hardest workers in the gulf as gulfies.............. go ahed ....go to UAE for example can you find me emarati who drivers taxi :think: ..... and opes wait you are omani .............. are you ready to do any shity job like working in restoran . ofcoures not ....... you wont do it ........ so please dont clime omanis are lazy ppl ............you dont know what you r talking about ....

MsKnuckles

06-07-05, 03:47 PM

????... Omanies compared to the gulf?? 1+1+1.... first of all I am talking about Omanies themselves... if people from the UAE or anywhere were lazy does that mean we have to be like them??? it's not wise to compare ourselves that way... compare urselves to the developed countries or to those who're working hard!! and learn from them... that's the way it should be done... plus... I was talking about the majority of Omanies/ not all... and second of all if I was offered and allowed to work in a restraurant then YES, I'd go for it... what would be wrong with that??? It's work after all... and as a student... it's a very good way to earn money... so please speak for yourself... you just gave a real life example of what I was talking about ;)

1+1+1=ones

07-07-05, 12:48 AM

talk about my self .... first of all if you really want a job you dont wait until some one comes and affored you ... go and look for it .... and im not saying that working thies small small is wrong or a sham ... i agree with you that there is alot of guys are lazy looking for jobs but not the majority !!!!! ... there is alot of hard workers out there ....there is alot of thing that involved in this cass .. it's not allways the omanies falt ....

sophis^catrina

07-07-05, 01:39 AM

إِنَّ اللَّهَ عِندَهُ عِلْمُ السَّاعَةِ وَيُنَزِّلُ الْغَيْثَ وَيَعْلَمُ مَا فِي الْأَرْحَامِ وَمَا تَدْرِي نَفْسٌ مَّاذَا تَكْسِبُ غَدًا وَمَا تَدْرِي نَفْسٌ بِأَيِّ أَرْضٍ تَمُوتُ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ خَبِيرٌ (34)
Verily the knowledge of the Hour is with Allah (alone). It is He Who sends down rain, and He Who knows what is in the wombs. Nor does any one know what it is that he will earn on the morrow: Nor does any one know in what land he is to die. Verily with Allah is full knowledge and He is acquainted (with all things).

The reality is that we (me , you & every humanbeing) know nothing about the future or our future means, we all know though that anything could happen anytime & we have no hold on our fate....whether we have 1 , 2, 3, or even 20 kids it doesnt make a differnnce as Rizq is already written up there...we are here on earth to provide the best we can & leave the rest for allah

I am not getting into this thread to side with anyone, but I thought that this passage is interesting and should be taken into account. Whether a person produces one or twenty kids it does not matter when it comes to it's rizq. People (parents do not provide rizq to others, it is what God has already destined for that child. Some children who are very poor have now become very rich, while other children born into a wealthy family have now lost their wealth. Plus I know of people who put their children into private schools, not knowing how to even pay the school fees, yet they were surprised later when God gave them money to provide for their children.

A child's rizq depends on what Allah has already destined for him, not the present economic welfare of it's parents.

As for taking care of children, again it does not matter on how many kids the parents have ... I am an only child and I was not brought up with either of my parents, lol they were too busy working or studying and I hardly saw them (just a few months each year). Instead I was put into the care of my grandmother. :p