Praying conditions : Having a Beard?

[Pineapple Thief]

This thread was split from its original source : http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29396

(Edited by nabhan )

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Sophy, what was answered in your lovely quote was
3 hadiths
1 thing said by the ulamah

A vague notion of non-beardedness being 'effeminate'...a bit brief, I'd appreciate the basis behind this.

The prophet at the time had long hair.Surely we cant say he was being effeminate?

[sophis^catrina]

ah lovely there is a new title. So my question still stands :)

Sophy, what was answered in your lovely quote was
3 hadiths
1 thing said by the ulamah

A vague notion of non-beardedness being 'effeminate'...a bit brief, I'd appreciate the basis behind this.

The prophet at the time had long hair.Surely we cant say he was being effeminate?

Pinneapple Thief, it is very long to post on sabla, I just quoted what was most impotant, that's why I provided the link. If you want me to post the whole webpage I can, but ask permission from the moderator if its ok that I spoil this thread with about 7 long posts.

[Pineapple Thief]

summarise for me :)

[EarThQuaKe]

Dear Sophi,

Do you mind providing a source for the ruling of beard shaving for the shi3i and ibadhi sects....



Thank you Mimosa...

[sophis^catrina]

You provided a source for the four sunni sectors in reply number 14, but you did not give us a source for the ibadhi or the shi3i sectors. Do you mind providing us with a source for both?

Ok, I was a bit annoyed at first, coz CR was telling us not to continue.

But since the title has changed. I realised I made a mistake with the shee3ie sect, according to their sites, it is a MUST for them to grow beards as well.


Like all other Islamic acts, the prohibition of Shaving a man’s beard is a multi faceted ruling which has the infinite wisdom of the Omniscient behind it. One logic may be to maintain clear distinction between the two genders because it forbidden for any of the two sexes to imitate the other in their appearance. A more direct reason may be a reversal of the norms and practices of the pagans who used to shave their beards while keeping a mustache. This is evident in the words of the Holy Prophet (SAWW) who has said:

حُفُّوا الشَّوَارِبَ وَ أَعْفُوا اللِّحَى وَ لَا تَشَبَّهُوا بالمجوس - من‏لايحضره‏الفقيه1/130
Depilate the mustache and grow beards and do not imitate the Zoroastrians (the word Jews is also mentioned in some verses).

There are also certain medical reasons cited for growing one’s beard, but the main underlying reason may simply be a test of obedience because social pressure (even at that time as can be discerned from the above tradition) will inevitably compel men to shave their beards, or risk being look down at as “dirty” people with a poor level of hygiene. This, of course, is nothing but a classical flawed stereotype. A well maintained, properly trimmed beard is usually associated with wisdom, maturity, and, of course, masculinity.

As for personal hygene, Imam Al Sadeq is reported to have said:

.. الْحَنِيفِيَّةَ وَ هِيَ عَشَرَةُ أَشْيَاءَ خَمْسَةٌ مِنْهَا فِي الرَّأْسِ وَ خَمْسَةٌ مِنْهَا فِي الْبَدَنِ فَأَمَّا الَّتِي فِي الرَّأْسِ فَأَخْذُ الشَّارِبِ وَ إِعْفَاءُ اللِّحَى وَ طَمُّ الشَّعْرِ وَ السِّوَاكُ وَ الْخِلَالُ وَ أَمَّا الَّتِي فِي الْبَدَنِ فَحَلْقُ الشَّعْرِ مِنَ الْبَدَنِ وَ الْخِتَانُ وَ تَقْلِيمُ الْأَظْفَارِ وَ الْغُسْلُ مِنَ الْجَنَابَةِ وَ الطَّهُورُ بِالْمَاءِ فَهَذِهِ الْحَنِيفِيَّةُ الظَّاهِرَةُ الَّتِي جَاءَ بِهَا إِبْرَاهِيمُ ع فَلَمْ تُنْسَخْ وَ لَا تُنْسَخُ إِلَى يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ. - وسائل‏الشيعة 2/117


Allah revealed the Hanifiah (i.e. True Religion) to Abraham which included 10 [hygienic] practices; 5 of them in the head, and five in the [rest of the] body. Those which are [associated with] the head are: Trimming (or shaving) the mustache, growing the beard, inundation of the hair, brushing the teeth, and using a toothpick. As for those practices which deal with the body, they are: shaving bodily hair, circumcision, clipping the nails, bathing after sexual intercourse (or any form of penetration or ejaculation), and ablution with water. For, indeed, these are parts of the manifest true religion which was revealed by Abraham and were not abrogated and will never be nullified until the day of resurrection.



Ahlulbayt (http://www.shiachat.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t28221.html)


As for the Ibadhi sect, that's what I have been told from my fathers side (who are Ibadhi), so I'll wait for IceTea to come and provide source, coz I can't get it online.

[sophis^catrina]

summarise for me :)

I don't have time, do it yourself. Plus, this is what the ullama have come with, I am not a scholar. Go debate with them.

[EarThQuaKe]

As for the Ibadhi sect, that's what I have been told from my fathers side (who are Ibadhi), so I'll wait for IceTea to come and provide source, coz I can't get it online.

OK... Thank you for the elaboration. Now lets wait for IceTea to provide us with a prove. :)

[Pineapple Thief]

I don't have time, do it yourself. Plus, this is what the ullama have come with. Go debate with them.

Im not debating with anyone, Im choosing not to live in ignorance :)

[sophis^catrina]

Im not debating with anyone, Im choosing not to live in ignorance :)

Then why don't YOU research on your own? Read websites and pages? Ask scholars?

Here I've provided some:

islam.org (http://www.islam.org.au/articles/22/beard.htm)

islamonline (http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=65268)

Islamtc (http://www.islam.tc/beard/beard.html)

mahad (http://www.mahadnewyork.org/sunnah/status_of_beard.htm)

Now read.

[Pineapple Thief]

And who says I havent done my reading? What makes you think I come to Sabla to find my answers? Who says I dont already know the answers I seek, and come here to find out other opinions, other thoughts, other interpretations, other ways in which people think?

Dont jump to conclusions please. Thanks for the links.

[sophis^catrina]

And who says I havent done my reading? What makes you think I come to Sabla to find my answers? Who says I dont already know the answers I seek, and come here to find out other opinions, other thoughts, other interpretations, other ways in which people think?

Dont jump to conclusions please. Thanks for the links.


You were actually asking me to summarise a whole webpage for you. :lift:


Anyway I saw this in islamonline:


In reality, the Prophet’s insistence on growing a beard is not a matter of tradition but his deliberate insistence on the signs of distinction between Muslims and non-Muslims. Ibn Taimiyah stated that being different from non-believers was what the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) meant as imitating them would lead to companionship, loyalty, and internal love which, on its turn, would lead to external love, and this has been proven right nowadays.

islamonline (http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=65268)

[Pineapple Thief]

Because the evidence as to the reasons 'why' you provided I didnt feel were particularly deep. Looking at the site you linked in that post, the only thingtheyve mentioned is being effeminate - and repeated it in different forms. Not explaining exactly how one was being effeminate. To me, thats not an explanation. Maybe Im being picky. Who knows.

[sophis^catrina]

Because the evidence as to the reasons 'why' you provided I didnt feel were particularly deep. Looking at the site you linked in that post, the only thingtheyve mentioned is being effeminate - and repeated it in different forms. Not explaining exactly how one was being effeminate. To me, thats not an explanation. Maybe Im being picky. Who knows.

Well I've provided more links now, and we've found out it's also to do with the distinction between Muslims and non-Muslims.

PT, I am not a scholar or a mufti so I do not know the full, complete, deep reasons of why it is forbidden, I can only quote what they've said.

[EarThQuaKe]

Its weird how shaving is forbidden, but most of the sunni scholars have thin beards. :D

[sophis^catrina]

Its weird how shaving is forbidden, but most of the sunni scholars have thin beards. :D

I think what they mean is being clean shaven is forbidden :os EQ.

Man, where are Icey and Raed when you need them?!

[Pineapple Thief]

Growing out their beards, perhaps.

[EarThQuaKe]

Dear Sophi,

This is what you said in post number 12



In the Sunni and Ibadhi sect, you must have facial hair (even if very light beard, not clean shaven).
Then you said this:

I think what they mean is being clean shaven is forbidden EQ.

Here are your sources dear Sophi. I will only post the conclusions.


It seems to me that the closest of these three views is the one that deems shaving beard as Makruh. This was a fatwa by Yusuf Al-Qaradawi and I think we all know that Al-Qaradawi have a very think beard. This fatwa contradicts with your post. Post number 12


Amongst the scholars who issued verdicts allowing to cut the hair in excessive of a handful, is Imam Hassan Al-Basri, Ataa' and At-Tabari. The Judge 'Eyaadh went further to say that it is undesirable to exaggerate in its size, just as it is undesirable to cut it short. And this is the opinion of some of the recent scholars. As for tracing it to the extent of shaving, as some do, this action is not allowed, and no one from amongst the accountable scholars, whether recent or ancient, mentioned the permissibility of such a thing. Al-Qaradawi is no one. :D


Thus, a Muslim who shaves or shortens his beard is like a hermaphrodite, his Imamate near prohibition, his evidence is not valid, he will not have the right to vote or being voted for. Shaving and shortening the beard is the action of non-believers. So Al-Qaradawi is a hermaphrodite :6: and an un-believer. Way to go Mufti Afzal :D


All the `ulamaa of as-Salaf u- li, including the Four Imams, agreed that shaving the beard is haram (prohibited). They considered shaving it an impermissible mutilation, as has been reported about Umar bin Abdil-Aziz. They used to consider the person who shaved his beard effeminate. Many of them would not accept his witness or allow him to lead the prayers. I like this guy. :)

[sophis^catrina]

In the Sunni and Ibadhi sect, you must have facial hair (even if [it is] very light beard, not clean shaven).




I think what they mean is being clean shaven is forbidden EQ.

Unless you don't understand the English language, but I said the same thing in both sentences. :os

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As for the sources, that's what I got from the sunni links. :os Like I said before I am not a scholar or a mufti who has studied this in depth. I've quoted what they've said, and you choose to follow or believe what you think more correct.

[EarThQuaKe]

Unless you don't understand the English language, but I said the same thing in both sentences. :os

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As for the sources, that's what I got from the sunni links. :os Like I said before I am not a scholar or a mufti who has studied this in depth. I've quoted what they've said, and you choose to follow or believe what you think more correct.

You provided me with a link that Al-Qaradawi is a hermaphrodite. :D

[sophis^catrina]

You provided me with a link that Al-Qaradawi is a hermaphrodite. :D

Al-Qardawi has his own opinions, and others have their own opinions. That's why we have different schools and sects, where some interpretations contradict each other.

The link does not call Qardawi that :os , it talks of different opinions.

[EarThQuaKe]

Al-Qardawi has his own opinions, and others have their own opinions. That's why we have different schools and sects, where some interpretations contradict each other.

The link does not call Qardawi that :os , it talks of different opinions.

Well the link had a conclusion. Read the conclusion again.

Now back to what you said in post number 12

In the Sunni and Ibadhi sect, you must have facial hair (even if very light beard, not clean shaven).
Whereas most of the links you provided show that a man is forbidden to shorten his beard. I guess you were suppose to say.

In the Sunni sect, most said not to shave or shorten facial hair. Others say its makrooh to shorten facial hair, but its not forbidden (even if very light beard, not clean shaven).

[Arabian Princess]

EQ, easy on Sophis .. I think it was great from her to provide different views instead of restricting it on one ..

[IceTea]

This is our mufti fatwa about the topic:


فتوى لسماحة الشيخ الخليلي حفظه الله في حكم حلق اللحية جاء فيها :

(( حلق اللحية من كبائر الإثم وظواهر الفجور لمخالفة ذلك سنة النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم القولية والفعلية ، وما أجمع عليه السلف ، فهو صلى الله عليه وسلم لم يعرف عنه إلا توفير اللحية وقد قال تعالى : ( لقد كان لكم في رسول الله أسوة حسنة لمن كان يرجوا الله واليوم الآخر وذكر الله كثيرا ) ، وبجانب ذلك فإنه أمر أمرا صريحا بتوفير اللحية وقد جاء ذلك من طرق متعددة وبروايات مختلفة لفظا ومتفقة معنى منها : " أحفوا الشوارب وأعفوا اللحى " ، والإعفاء التنمية بدليل قوله تعالى : ( ثم بدلنا مكان السيئة الحسنة حتى عفوا ) أي نموا ، وفي رواية " أرخوا اللحى " وفي أخرى " أوفوا " وفي رابعة " وفروا " ، وأمره صلى الله عليه وسلم محمول على الوجوب إلا إذا قامت قرينة على خلافه ، والأصل في ذلك قوله تعالى : ( فليحذر الذين يخالفون عن أمره أن تصيبهم فتنة أو يصيبهم عذاب أليم ) ، والمسلمون أجمعوا – قولا وعملا – على توفير اللحية ولم يخالف في ذلك أحد حتى استحوذ على أفكارهم الإستعمار الغربي ففتنوا بسفاسفه ونذالاته والله المستعان )) .


http://www.cybamall.com/factsound/FATWA2.jpg

http://www.cybamall.com/factsound/fatwa3.jpg

[EarThQuaKe]

Thank you IceTea. :)

[Pineapple Thief]

Can someone provide some info/opinions about having long hair, which seems to be something of a stigma in the arab world? (i dont say muslim world: there are places in the muslim world where its not seen as anything out of the ordinary)

[EarThQuaKe]

Did we already finish with the beard? :think:

Lets wait and see what the scholars say about it. :)

[NaBHaN]

This is our mufti fatwa about the topic:


فتوى لسماحة الشيخ الخليلي حفظه الله في حكم حلق اللحية جاء فيها :

(( حلق اللحية من كبائر الإثم وظواهر الفجور لمخالفة ذلك سنة النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم القولية والفعلية ، وما أجمع عليه السلف ، فهو صلى الله عليه وسلم لم يعرف عنه إلا توفير اللحية وقد قال تعالى : ( لقد كان لكم في رسول الله أسوة حسنة لمن كان يرجوا الله واليوم الآخر وذكر الله كثيرا ) ، وبجانب ذلك فإنه أمر أمرا صريحا بتوفير اللحية وقد جاء ذلك من طرق متعددة وبروايات مختلفة لفظا ومتفقة معنى منها : " أحفوا الشوارب وأعفوا اللحى " ، والإعفاء التنمية بدليل قوله تعالى : ( ثم بدلنا مكان السيئة الحسنة حتى عفوا ) أي نموا ، وفي رواية " أرخوا اللحى " وفي أخرى " أوفوا " وفي رابعة " وفروا " ، وأمره صلى الله عليه وسلم محمول على الوجوب إلا إذا قامت قرينة على خلافه ، والأصل في ذلك قوله تعالى : ( فليحذر الذين يخالفون عن أمره أن تصيبهم فتنة أو يصيبهم عذاب أليم ) ، والمسلمون أجمعوا – قولا وعملا – على توفير اللحية ولم يخالف في ذلك أحد حتى استحوذ على أفكارهم الإستعمار الغربي ففتنوا بسفاسفه ونذالاته والله المستعان )) .

translation is required.

[IceTea]

Can one of the mods translate it? ;)

It's one of their duties after all.

[Arabian Princess]

(( حلق اللحية من كبائر الإثم وظواهر الفجور لمخالفة ذلك سنة النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم القولية والفعلية ، وما أجمع عليه السلف ، فهو صلى الله عليه وسلم لم يعرف عنه إلا توفير اللحية وقد قال تعالى : ( لقد كان لكم في رسول الله أسوة حسنة لمن كان يرجوا الله واليوم الآخر وذكر الله كثيرا ) ، وبجانب ذلك فإنه أمر أمرا صريحا بتوفير اللحية وقد جاء ذلك من طرق متعددة وبروايات مختلفة لفظا ومتفقة معنى منها : " أحفوا الشوارب وأعفوا اللحى " ، والإعفاء التنمية بدليل قوله تعالى : ( ثم بدلنا مكان السيئة الحسنة حتى عفوا ) أي نموا ، وفي رواية " أرخوا اللحى " وفي أخرى " أوفوا " وفي رابعة " وفروا " ، وأمره صلى الله عليه وسلم محمول على الوجوب إلا إذا قامت قرينة على خلافه ، والأصل في ذلك قوله تعالى : ( فليحذر الذين يخالفون عن أمره أن تصيبهم فتنة أو يصيبهم عذاب أليم ) ، والمسلمون أجمعوا – قولا وعملا – على توفير اللحية ولم يخالف في ذلك أحد حتى استحوذ على أفكارهم الإستعمار الغربي ففتنوا بسفاسفه ونذالاته والله المستعان )) .

This says, that shaving the beared is among the big sins because it goes aginst what Prophet Mohammed Peace be upon him said. There is a clear order from the prophet that the beared has to be left.

[IceTea]

Thanks AP ;).