View Full Version : Suppressing all natural sexual urges because of the religion
X-press
07-02-05, 01:03 PM
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probably te best advise..........is to let him do what every other 13-15 year old boy does.........and not make him feel guilty and bad but saying Islam forbids this and that........
I hate to say this.......but some of the muslim guys have very extreme sexual hang ups.......
fatak
Arabian Princess
07-02-05, 02:23 PM
Sorry Fatak but having girls pregnants at age 14-15 wouldnt solve the problem!
would come later to this Exxy
I was talking about "choking the chicken".........not getting girls plump.....
fatak
PhaHaDde
08-02-05, 04:30 AM
Salam,
Indeed that's a dangerous age. If they can't control themselves at a young age & they think it's too early for them to get married, then they should fast if they don't want to fall into a sin.
Fasting really works, otherwise the prophet wouldn't have said it. It's good to think of such things, but not to think too deep & question islam for why such policy was put. If we believe in islam. Whatever islam asked us to do it is becuae it is for our own benefit & whatever islam asked us to avoid, it is because it's bad & harmful for us.
There are many ways of controlling the kids from falling into committing any kind of sins. These are:
Do the 5 prayers everyday on time. This is really helpful.
"قال تعالى:" إن الصلاة تنهى عن الفحشاء والمنكر
صدق الله العظيم
They should recite qur'an regularly. It cleans the heart & clears the mind from bad thoughts that comes from the satan.
Give them or read for them islamic stories.
Let them watch benefitial & educational programmes & cartoons on TV.
Block all the bad channels.
Be careful who they walk with, make sure they avoid bad kids, as they have strong influence on one another.
"المرء على دين خليله فلينظر أحدكم من يخالل"
حديث شريف
The parents behaviour plays a big role in bringing up the kids, whatever the paents do, will be reflected on thier kids, so the parents also should watch themselves & be careful of what they say or do especially infront of thier kids.
Each of the parents has a major role in raising their kids, but the mother is known to be the first school & kids are very much influenced by the mother.
"الأم مدرسة إذا أعددتها أعددت شعباً طيب اللأعراق"
The history is full of successful men who were well brought up by their mothers. They were raised to love everyone & to practice justice & avoid opression. Many examples are there, & one of the most famous was Omar bin Abdulazeez, who was a man of wisdom & justice throught his life, he was well raised by his mother.
"وراء كل رجل عظيم امرأة"
If the above was followed insha'allah the kids will be able to control themselves & why not, there are many grown-ups who were at that age & they could pass that age without falling into any crime or sin. I grew up with good friends whom I am still in touch till today. My parents taught me qur'an & made me love it & since I was a teenager I keep reading islamic books to learn more & more about islam & find its secrets. I am grateful to islam, it made me see the beauty of life by being a muslim.
"الحمد لله الذي هدانا لهذا وما كنا لنهتدي لولا أن هدانا الله"
Hope I have stated enough solutions & ways of how to raise the kids in a way they will not disappoint thier parents or go against thier religion.
Salam
Well keep in mind......this way of thinking comes from 1400 years ago.....when kids didn't watch TV, and married young.
A young woman marrying at 14 or 15 was common.....then.
So I don't think you can on one hand say.....the kids are not allowed to explore their sexuality.....because back then they could.....
And they could also boink the slave girls.....so anyway.....it's not quite the same as the good old days.
fatak
X-press
08-02-05, 11:33 AM
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X-press
08-02-05, 11:59 AM
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X-press
08-02-05, 12:03 PM
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Pineapple Thief
08-02-05, 12:06 PM
Perhaps the resulting outcomes of frequent masturbation, and not the act itself, are what is harmful.
sophis^catrina
08-02-05, 02:11 PM
Perhaps the resulting outcomes of frequent masturbation, and not the act itself, are what is harmful.
According to science the outcomes are healthy...
Well......when I was at catholic school........there was a class given by the priests about masturbation.......they said it was a "sin".........and possible you could go blind if you did it.......
From that day on......I understood the saying "The BLIND leading the BLIND"........
There's is no way you are going stop a young kid from doing that........and the best thing is making him feel like it's natural.....and not to worry about it....
Not that if he does it he's going to HELL>that's really messing with his head.....
PS......I learnt Braile at an early age.
fatak
Pineapple Thief
08-02-05, 07:28 PM
According to science the outcomes are healthy...
Im just suggesting a possible explanation as to why it may be considered a bad thing. Just speaking from personal experience, the people I know who, *ahem*, jerk off (or are open about it as opposed to those who deny it) tend to be the ones who think about sex more often, or at least express their sexual desires more often - and act on them more often.
But hey, my experience is limited. And by my experience, Im talking about people I know, and not me myself, jsut for those of you who choose to misunderstand ;)
Besides, scientifically speaking, everybody knows that masturbation gives you acne !
:XD:
Well one of the side effects of masturbation is premature ejaculation. Which messes up the sex life of a married couple.
Pineapple Thief
08-02-05, 08:00 PM
Can you elaborate premature ejaculation? Because from what I hear, if you go into marriage without prior experience, or masturbation, you, well, lets just say the fun doesnt last as long as it should. So Im a bit confused.
I think she means the husband will finish before his wife.
PhaHaDde
08-02-05, 11:12 PM
Salam,
I do know that fasting is prescribed for someone who has any sexual urges and who can't satisfy these feelings through a legal intercourse (meaning marriage). However, how can you really explain and convince a 12 or 13 years old boy (and even girl) that he shouldn't "do that" and that it is "sinful"?
It's preferable not to talk about those stuff to kids. Just maintain the limits with them. We can tell them indirectly. What I have stated earlier are enough to prevent kids from falling into those sins. When I was a kid, I was taught to read qur'an, pray & do all the islamic obligations. I had good friends who were just like me, we shared the behaviour & thoughts. During school holidays I would sit down early morning, grab a book read & start writing. What I am trying to say here is to keep them busy with good activities all time. So the key word here is 'Free Time'. Free time becomes dangerous to adolescents when it's not used. Different thoughts may pop up in their minds & those sexual feelings can become stronger during free time. When I used to get those feelings, I was controlling myself by reading qur'an or going out to play football with my friends or just go for a walk with them. Bear in mind to avoid showing that you suspect him/her.
I don't know if my words will satisfy you, but since it's a serious matter then there are people who can be consulted on this issue.
My young son does read the quran, always does his 5 daily prayers and don't watch sinful programs on TV; however is it enough for him not to have the sexual urges he natural gets as any young boy reaching puberty? I believe 'No'.As he is entering puberty, I will surely not go and encourage him to 'discover himself', but it is at the same time difficult for me to understand why it is something so sinful
Any normal human will have sexual urges, that's the difference between humans & angels. I remember a story of an angel who was surprised by the sins humans commit & God replied the angel that he puts in human a desire which if he puts in angels they would have been worse than humans...& the story goes on, but it's not our issue here. Anyways, the answer for your question is the same thing what I stated earlier in the first reply. Those were the ways to control ourselves, we can't escapy the sexual feelings, but we can control them. That's why the ptophet said to Fast. Fasting works if only real fasting is applied. Not fasting by justkeeping away from food & drinks.
By the way, during the prophet's time, people used to have much stronger sexual urges than nowadays people. The prophet himself was different than the rest, if am not mistaken he had sexual power of (25) or (35) men. Wallahu A3lam.
Salam..
X-press
09-02-05, 12:26 AM
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Pineapple Thief
09-02-05, 12:32 AM
Um no. Seminal fluid is not kept in storage. From what I learnt, it is constantly being made. If its not used, and correct me if im wrong because I dont remember, it is disposed of, or recycled, or something like that. Its not finite in supply, sperm cells are constantly being created.
I dont think its the 'waste' of seminal fluid that Islam is worried about, more to do with the act of masturbation, and the reprecussions. Perhaps.
PhaHaDde
09-02-05, 01:10 AM
Salam,
I remember reading about masturbation somewhere & it said that one of the side effects of masturbation is premature ejaculation. There are many other side effects.
Waste of semen is one of the reasons islam forbids masturbation, just like anal sex. They only serve self-pleasrue & waste of the semen. One of the bad side effects of masturbation is the difficulty of quitting it even after marriage. That's why it's called Al'3ada As'sirriyya in arabic. It's 3ada because once you get used to satisfy yourself in that manner then it's hard to change it & even when you have normal sexual intercourse with your spouse, the person will need to masturbate to feel satisfied. I read many stories of married people who are complaning about this.
There is a hadeeth from the prophet I remember reading it somewhere that the masturbator is cursed.
" ناكح يده ملعون"
حديث شريف
In most math'habs it's forbidden, but some few math'habs they only said it's makrooh.
Regards..
Thank you Phahade. :mmhmm:
Pineapple Thief
09-02-05, 01:42 AM
Can someone tell me what you mean by premature ejaculation, and why masturbation would cause it
Um no. Seminal fluid is not kept in storage. From what I learnt, it is constantly being made. If its not used, and correct me if im wrong because I dont remember, it is disposed of, or recycled, or something like that. Its not finite in supply, sperm cells are constantly being created.
The emergency valve should be open as a sort of wet dream and not through masturbation.
And your question about premature ejaculation answered by IceTea and XP:
the husband will finish before his wife
any youngster, who has never experienced an orgasm or who has never had intercourse, will ejaculate prematuraly at the beginning. It is only with time and experience that he will learn how to control himself.
And there is no relation between it and masturbation.
PhaHaDde
09-02-05, 06:11 PM
Thank you Phahade. :mmhmm:
You are most welcome.
sophis^catrina
09-02-05, 07:14 PM
Waste of semen is one of the reasons islam forbids masturbation, just like anal sex. They only serve self-pleasrue & waste of the semen.
I hardly think that anal sex and masturbation can be related.... I mean these two are worlds apart.
Btw what does the shee3ie mathab say abt masturbation?
Pineapple Thief
09-02-05, 07:26 PM
As far as I know, its 7aram except in those circumstances where you would otherwise commit an even bigger sin, i.e. screw some chick. If masturbation would prevent that, its acceptable.
Im not sure if thats the shee3a view or something else, best ask Reddo or Muscati.
Btw what does the shee3ie mathab say abt masturbation?
I believe shee3ie mathab say that anal sex is ok but makrooh, so I wonder what it says about masturbation as if we compare it to anal sex iit's nothing!
sophis^catrina
09-02-05, 07:52 PM
^^^ Come on guys we just can't compare anal sex with masturbation... they are way too different.
CrazyReD
09-02-05, 09:14 PM
masturbation is 7aram
anal sex is very makrooh and only if the women wants it other then that it's really makrooh
Pineapple Thief
09-02-05, 10:23 PM
I cant see why anal sex would ever be halal. Its disgusting.
sophis^catrina
09-02-05, 11:58 PM
I cant see why anal sex would ever be halal. Its disgusting.
Exactly. And way too un-natural.
PhaHaDde
10-02-05, 12:55 AM
I hardly think that anal sex and masturbation can be related.... I mean these two are worlds apart.
Btw what does the shee3ie mathab say abt masturbation?
Salam,
Yes, they are obviously two different things, but they only share those two things, waste of semen & self-pleasure. Masturbation is forbidden according to the hadeeth I stated earlier & jumhoor al3ulama agreed on that.
If masturbation was healthy, the prophet would have asked us to do it if we are unable to get married. He encouraged us to get married, and those who don't have the ability to get married the cure for that is to fast, as fasting has protection.
"يا معشر الشباب، من استطاع منكم الباءة فليتزوج، ومن لم يستطع فعليه بالصوم فإنه له وجاء"
حديث شريف
Most math'habs, jumhoor al3ulama & ahl As'sunnah agreed that anal sex is forbidden. There are many ahadeeth that forbids anal sex.
"ملعون من أتى امرأته من دبرها"
حديث شريف
The qur'an allowed sexual intercourse with the wife in any position as long as it's in the vagina which is a place from which the child is born. "موضع الحرث"
"قال تعالى:" نساؤكم حرث لكم فأتوا حرثكم أنى شئتم
صدق الله العظيم
Salam..
masturbation is 7aram
anal sex is very makrooh and only if the women wants it other then that it's really makrooh
Wow, I didn't know that. What do the shee3a use for daleel for this ruling? I mean, which hadith?
Not that I agree with masturbation or anything ..But i cant understand how it would be haram . Does islam expect muslims to stay totaly repressed till they get married? It just seems a little cruel if u ask me.
PhaHaDde
10-02-05, 01:35 AM
Not that I agree with masturbation or anything ..But i cant understand how it would be haram . Does islam expect muslims to stay totaly repressed till they get married? It just seems a little cruel if u ask me.
Salam,
There are people who could stay without masturbating till they get married. Islam expected that there will be people who will not be able to control themselves until they get married, & it gave a solution which is to fast. I know people hardly fast Ramadhan & wouldn't think to fast any more than that. That's what islam has recommended for us as a solution. God made us & he knows what's good for us & what's bad for us & he knows our capabilities.
Salam..
Pineapple Thief
10-02-05, 01:49 AM
It all depends on what you consider the 'norms' these days. It seems to be the norm to jerk, and if you dont, well, you're classified as being a freak or no sexual drive. Because its the norm. I dont know if it was in the past.
off topic....But I wondered.......
What if a man or woman has no intention to marry? is that haram NOT to marry?
And then would they be free to have sexual relationships?
fatak
Pineapple Thief
10-02-05, 02:04 AM
Yes. What reason would they have not to marry that isnt imposed by todays society's standards and barriers?
anal sex is very makrooh and only if the women wants it other then that it's really makrooh
How can a woman want something haram!
What do you understand from this verse CR and concentrate on "مِنْ حَيْثُ أَمَرَكُمُ اللَّهُ "?
فَإِذَا تَطَهَّرْنَ فَأْتُوهُنَّ مِنْ حَيْثُ أَمَرَكُمُ اللَّهُ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ التَّوَّابِينَ وَيُحِبُّ الْمُتَطَهِّرِينَ
The above verse is enough as evidence that anal sex is haram.
off topic....But I wondered.......
What if a man or woman has no intention to marry? is that haram NOT to marry?
And then would they be free to have sexual relationships?
fatak
Muslim women are not shallow to think about marraige as just for pure sex.
sophis^catrina
10-02-05, 08:20 PM
Salam,
There are people who could stay without masturbating till they get married. Islam expected that there will be people who will not be able to control themselves until they get married..
Not that I agree with masturbation or anything ..But i cant understand how it would be haram . Does islam expect muslims to stay totaly repressed till they get married? It just seems a little cruel if u ask me.
I am with Nabhan. The truth is there is a great problem in our society nowadays that the majority of people (esp) men get married in their late 20s. Now in the Prophet's time, people got married at the onset of puberty which was greatly encouraged (around age 12 for girls and 15 for boys), so they had sex at the times when they started having a sexual drive and there was no real need for masturbation. In fact, it was extremely easy for people to get married.
Nowadays though, people are encouraged to make money first, be financially stable before getting married. This would take years after going to college, and also the problems of mahr, etc. The man (and woman) would most likely get married mid 20s- late 20s. It's very hard for them to control themselves to not commit zena, and the next best solution for them that in my view would be masturbation.
Times have changed. While in the Prophet's time, people were lucky and got married once they started having sexual desires, nowadays people will have to probably wait for around 10 years since starting to have sexual drives in order to have sex.
The problem really lies in how society has changed. How society expects you to study, work, etc before getting married (starting to have sex), which is frankly ridiculous. That because of our lifestyle now, more people are likely to engage in fornication before getting married, masturbation is honestly in my view a better solution in our repressed society to stop people falling into the zena trap (which is very likely).
Pineapple Thief
10-02-05, 08:23 PM
You're right sophis, as usual.
So what do we do...thats the question. Do we make 7alal what is 7aram for us? (and can anyone provide me with the relevant quranic verses/hadiths about masturbation anyway).
alhakim
10-02-05, 08:34 PM
There are some areas where the other systems have just begun to recognize the need for providing guidance and education for their followers, which Islam had done centuries before. One such area is "sex education". The West, having just emerged from the darkness of the middle ages, has suddenly realized the importance of sex "education". Yet this is something which was part and parcel of Islamic teachings since its inception fourteen hundred years ago. It should however be borne in mind that Islamic sex education is poles apart from the Western concept of sex 'education', which could rather be termed as sex 'corruption'. There is a vast difference between the crude attitude of the West to this subject in comparison with Islam's refined approach. The west has thoroughly degraded the real (Islamic) concept of sex education by adulterating this important branch of learning, with it's depraved values and outlook on sex.
alhakim
10-02-05, 08:38 PM
At what age should a child be taught sex education?
answer
sex education can be taught properly. When we look at the book of Buhari, a hadith from the Prophet (PBUH) shows where he (the Prophet) was teaching his companions how to perform purification bath, he said, "if he sits in between her (thighs) and exhausts her, then a purification bath becomes compulsory." Here, he only made a statement which explains how intercourse may take place, but he did not say come and sit here let me demonstrate how it is done. Therefore when teaching, there is no harm in explaining how it is done. There is even no harm in drawing on the board, but not when the teacher and his students come in contact. We have books in Islam, which explain the purification bath, what spoils ablution; some of these things explains how the sperm or semen is emitted.
It's very hard for them to control themselves to not commit zena, and the next best solution for them that in my view would be masturbation.
That is not the solution, the prophet PBUH gave people the solution which is either to get married or fast. Making the haram halal in Islam is not accepted. And that is what is called "Jihad al nafs" meaning stopping the self desires from making sins and falling in to the haram.
Beside that why people go for masturbation, they can just leave it to the nature and they will get wet dreams automatically when things overflow :), espacially during winter!
alhakim
10-02-05, 08:39 PM
In modern times, a child of primary school, say age seven, should start knowing these things, before he/she becomes fully mature.
alhakim
10-02-05, 08:42 PM
Is it proper for children to start knowing about sexual oriented vices like homosexuality at such age?
answer:
Yes, it is in Islamic books of jurisprudence and history. It has shown that homosexuality and their likes exist. Children should be taught about this, likewise the punishment for it.They learn about them and their punishments, so that by the time they grow up and mature, they will know how to deal with such cases. They should know that it is forbidden
That is not the solution, the prophet PBUH gave people the solution which is either to get married or fast.
that is incorrect.
It should however be borne in mind that Islamic sex education is poles apart from the Western concept of sex 'education', which could rather be termed as sex 'corruption'.
how so ? please provide examples.
alhakim
10-02-05, 11:22 PM
examples
1- from early age the child grows up knowing that sex is nothing to do with mariege , even to extent that he or she atends his parents weding
2- they get tought at school about contraception from early age and get the idea that if u take proper precautions it otherwise ok to have sex without mariege
3- the way the female body is taken as sex sympole to atract customers for comercial benefit what messege that send to the kids
4- the results are all there to see and if u have lived in the west as much as i did u will see how many problems are there in the daily life because of it from disease like klamidia to crime and child abuse.
alhakim
10-02-05, 11:25 PM
FOR THE ALL HER IS :
12 Tips For Parents:
Talking To Your Kids About Sex
Tip #1: Start Early
Ideally sex education is not provided to kids in a reactionary fashion. Rather, it's given from the beginning in an indirect manner.
This means the child has to have a strong sense of identity and an understanding of what his or her values are.
“Parents are going to have sit down and explain their values to their own children. And this needs to start young, before the society influences them,” says Marilyn Morris, a Christian, who is president and founder of Aim for Success. The organization promotes abstinence from sex through speeches and presentations to students in grades six to 12. The group is one of the largest providers of abstinence education in the United States.
She says it is also important to explain to kids why you hold those values. For example, why do you not approve of sex outside of marriage, whether this is for religious and/or health reasons.
alhakim
10-02-05, 11:27 PM
I Will Folow With The Remaining 11 Inshaa Allah Later
And this needs to start young, before the society influences them,” says Marilyn Morris, a Christian, who is president and founder of Aim for Success.
you are supposed to prove that Islam does things in a different way and you quote a christian ?
and you seem to confuse sex education in a secular environment to religious teachings.
they are not the same.
PhaHaDde
11-02-05, 12:26 AM
The problem really lies in how society has changed. How society expects you to study, work, etc before getting married (starting to have sex), which is frankly ridiculous. That because of our lifestyle now, more people are likely to engage in fornication before getting married, masturbation is honestly in my view a better solution in our repressed society to stop people falling into the zena trap (which is very likely).
Salam,
Clear statement.
What about people who masturbate & fornicate?
What about people who have the same problem but they control it by fasting?
I didn't generalise when I talked about masturbation. Not all people in our society masturbate. I do understand the problem people face, but no matter how many people masturbate & no matter what their excuses are, masturbation is forbidden with daleel from the sunnah. Abadhiya & other sects agreed on this except few like shee3a who thought of calling it makrooh, & there are other 3olamaa who came up with different opinions on this issue.
We can't generalise & say in our society people masturbate & compare it with the society during the prophet's time & say those days people didn't masturbate coz they used to get married early. First of all, not all people those days used to get married once they have sexual desires. Masturbation is not a new thing, I am sure it was there during the prophet's time, otherwise the prophet wouldn't have cursed the masturbator.
"ناكح يده ملعون"
حديث شريف
The hadeeth I mentioned earlier in which the prophet encourages the youths to get married when they are capable, it gave a solution for those who are unable to get married due to different reasons. The message was not addresses to only those who lived during the prophet's time, it is addressed to all including us. So I would say the solution is what the prophet said.
Salam..
alhakim
11-02-05, 12:33 AM
i have quoted the a christian for two reasons
1 - this person in particuler is an expert on the subject and her views are the same as islamic ones , islamic views are >1400 years .
2- the christian relegion is also comming from allah and what is practised today is not christian teachings.
as for the secular and religious teachings we do not seperate between religion and life as our islam is away of life.
alhakim
11-02-05, 12:36 AM
Tip #2: Give the child age-appropriate sex education
Starting to teach different topics at the right age is also important.
For example, a boy of eight may notice his mom does not pray some time during the month and may ask why. At this point, it can simply be said this is a time when Allah has excused women from praying. At the age of 12 or 13, a parent can introduce the topic of menstruation, and by that point, he will be able to make the connection.
Another way topics of a sexual nature can be introduced is while the child is reading the Quran. When the child reads verses about sexual intercourse, menstruation, or homosexuality, for example, this can be explained in a matter-of-fact manner.
Sex can also be discussed in the context of cleanliness in Islam at a certain age. For example, by the age of six or seven, a child must know how to clean him or herself after using the toilet.
After this at about eleven or twelve, the issue of Ghusl can be raised and when it is necessary (i.e. after sexual intercourse, after menstruation, etc).
As well, parents should sit with their children individually, not all together to explain various age-appropriate topics related to sex.
Some of the topics to talk about include modesty, decency, conduct and behavior .
But these should not be presented as just a bunch of rules to be followed. Rather the wisdom behind, for example, the Islamic dress code and lowering the gaze for both sexes should be explained.
ToomuchaT
11-02-05, 06:59 AM
It's very hard for them to control themselves to not commit zena, and the next best solution for them that in my view would be masturbation.
"ناكح يده ملعون"
.. no comments! :)
that is incorrect.
And what is the correct?
[QUOTE=alhakim]
2- the christian relegion is also comming from allah and what is practised today is not christian teachings.
You are welcome to your beliefs......but you should be aware that many people feel quite the contrary......
that Islam is coming from parts of Pagnism, Judaism and Christianity.......
I don't feel you have the right to pass judgement on this matter......and very insulting to Christians....
fatak
That is not the solution, the prophet PBUH gave people the solution which is either to get married or fast. Making the haram halal in Islam is not accepted. And that is what is called "Jihad al nafs" meaning stopping the self desires from making sins and falling in to the haram.......
you are incorrect because that was not the option the Prophet gave during their battles.
maybe this will remind you.
Volume 6, Book 60, Number 139:
Narrated Abdullah:
We used to participate in the holy wars carried on by the Prophet and we had no women (wives) with us. So we said (to the Prophet ). "Shall we castrate ourselves?" But the Prophet forbade us to do that and thenceforth he allowed us to marry a woman (temporarily) by giving her even a garment, and then he recited: "O you who believe! Do not make unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you."
personally, I would choose masturbation over prostitution / temporary marriage / whatever you wish to call it.
so masturbation is 7aram? hmm.. I guess every man on this earth is going to hell then. :p
alhakim
12-02-05, 02:17 AM
my reply to fatak is : i am her to discuss the subject on civiliased way
going on with the sbject
Tip #4: Be an example
This goes hand in hand with being a role model, which is the best way to teach and transmit values to children.
That means not only should children be exposed to a healthy male-female relationship when they see their parents. It also means parents do not engage in activities which undermine their views on sexuality.
For instance, “being careful themselves about what they watch on T.V. or what movies they go to see, “ is crucial says Morris “because that ‘s a bad influence on us at any age. And if our children see us doing it why shouldn't they as well?”
This also means setting an example in other aspects of life by following the same rules you expect your kids to follow. For example, if you're running late, call children and let them know, show them the same courtesy you expect from them, explains Morris.
you are incorrect because that was not the option the Prophet gave during their battles.
maybe this will remind you.
Volume 6, Book 60, Number 139:
Narrated Abdullah:
We used to participate in the holy wars carried on by the Prophet and we had no women (wives) with us. So we said (to the Prophet ). "Shall we castrate ourselves?" But the Prophet forbade us to do that and thenceforth he allowed us to marry a woman (temporarily) by giving her even a garment, and then he recited: "O you who believe! Do not make unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you."
personally, I would choose masturbation over prostitution / temporary marriage / whatever you wish to call it.
I would take the hooker......over castration.........
Are you serious...prostituion is ok with a tempory marriage thingy?
fatak
sophis^catrina
12-02-05, 05:17 AM
"ناكح يده ملعون"
.. no comments! :)
I was not stating anything new. As far as I know in some sects if a person fears that they will commit zena they can masturbate. There is a hadith, although I can't exactly recall, can someone state it please?
Anyway I wasn't stating anything new. :zzz:
sophis^catrina
12-02-05, 06:16 AM
Salam,
Salam..
Phahadde, true true. I agree, and what is haram cannot be changed. But when talking abt issues such as these, sometimes we have to also discuss the grey issues and the problems that society is facing and taking into consideration that people do have very different sex drives (as Nabhan says that if this is the case then most men will be doing haram). Anyway I was just saying that I believe (can someone please state it?!) that there is a hadeeth that says that is someone fears zenna, then they should masturbate, so they don't fall into the trap. Secondly, that the prophet said that one should get married as soon as they need sex. And my reasoning was just agreeing with those hadeeths, but at the same time pinpointing the problems in our society.
you are incorrect because that was not the option the Prophet gave during their battles.
maybe this will remind you.
Volume 6, Book 60, Number 139:
Narrated Abdullah:
We used to participate in the holy wars carried on by the Prophet and we had no women (wives) with us. So we said (to the Prophet ). "Shall we castrate ourselves?" But the Prophet forbade us to do that and thenceforth he allowed us to marry a woman (temporarily) by giving her even a garment, and then he recited: "O you who believe! Do not make unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you."
personally, I would choose masturbation over prostitution / temporary marriage / whatever you wish to call it.
The prophet PBUH prohibited temporary marraige (zawaj mut3ah) at khaibar.
There is a hadith, although I can't exactly recall, can someone state it please?
Anyway I wasn't stating anything new. :zzz:
I think you are stating something new now coz one Hadith can't contradict the other :), I don't know which Hadith you are talking about :rolleyes:
the prophet PBUH prohibited temporary marraige (zawaj mut3ah) at khaibar.
what does that mean ? did the prophet allow it earlier ?
are you saying that bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 139 is false ?
I think I've posted this twenty times by now:
“Those who guard their sexual organs except with their spouses or those whom their right hands possess, for (with regard to them) they are without blame. But those who crave something beyond that are transgressors.” (Al-Mu'mun: 5-7)
In short; some scholars (Shafi`is) believe this means you can't touch anyone but your spouse (not even yourself).
Others ( Hanafites )believe that the ayah refers to 'zina' which means that your own 'sexual organs' are not included and that masturbation is permissible under the following circumstances:
1. if the person is unmarried,
2. if he or she fears that without masturbation he/she will commit Zina, and
3. if the masturbation here is, rather than fulfilling a sexual desire, just to release the sexual tension resulting from stimulation.
4. the difficulty of getting married, and
5. The inability to fast.
If someone is afraid that he would commit a greater sin like Zina or he will be harmed by some psychological disorders, then the ban on masturbation would be relaxed just to remove the hardship, based on the Shari`ah principle that states that “necessity is judged according to the circumstances that warrant it.”
http://islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=81157
sophis^catrina
12-02-05, 10:01 PM
Enigma, thanks so much! :) Finally! :weep:
Ice Tea, that's what I was talking abt!
X-press
13-02-05, 12:30 AM
{Sorry - Post removed by Xp!}
EarThQuaKe
14-02-05, 05:21 PM
what does that mean ? did the prophet allow it earlier ?
are you saying that bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 139 is false ?
if you want the truth, I can pass it to you. :)
i look forward to that ;)
PhaHaDde
15-02-05, 03:34 AM
Salam,
Masturbation is not the only problem in the society. If masturbation was a solution the prophet wouldn't have said : "ناكح يده ملعون". No matter how many people do it, that wont change it to 7alal or not even makrooh.
There is no hadeeth that says masturbation is allowed if someone was a fraid to fall into zina. Only words of some 7anafi's & 7anbali's in which they said it's forbidden when you don't need it, & it's allowed when you need it. Other sects like most of shafi3i, abadhi, maliki & 7anbali, agreed that it's completely forbidden.
Some like Ahmed bin hanbal & some of 7anafi sects said it's completey allowed to do it.
Since there are three different judgments on this issue, I strongly believe in what most sects agreed on which is to forbid masturbation.
والله أعلم بالصواب
Salam..
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