View Full Version : Equality
KING_OF_ALL
08-01-05, 06:13 AM
I was inspired by a 'live talk show' about..Problem of less wages for women in Europe!
Problem details..
Women in UK earns 81% of what men earns
Women earn 88% of what men earn in France
The statistics are the figures I heard with my own ears and they are based on genders and not competence or extra skill.
My questions are;
1) Do we have similar problem in Oman or in any Islamic state?
2) If these two european countries, who happen to be two of the five super powers in the world, cannot give women their deserved wage..should we still follow them as models for our "women freedom & liberation" because we(mulims) do suppress women apparently?!
3) If women in the western had been given all their rights, then why we do not see women running countries apart from England's Queen?(only RULERS and not head of states/prime ministers).
Arabian Princess
08-01-05, 08:03 AM
1) Do we have similar problem in Oman or in any Islamic state?
Women earns equally to men .. your wage isnt determined by gender but by your grade (qualifications)
2) If these two european countries, who happen to be two of the five super powers in the world, cannot give women their deserved wage..should we still follow them as models for our "women freedom & liberation" because we(mulims) do suppress women apparently?!
if we are one step better, why shall we go back???
we should remain where we are.
3) If women in the western had been given all their rights, then why we do not see women running countries apart from England's Queen?
correction, UK's queen isnt running a country .
NZ have a woman prime minister and she is a good one.
H-Highness
08-01-05, 08:39 AM
1) Do we have similar problem in Oman or in any Islamic state?
Yes, talking from personal experience, I would say thsi problem do exist very much. The shame part, it happened to be state owned company.
2) If these two european countries, who happen to be two of the five super powers in the world, cannot give women their deserved wage..should we still follow them as models for our "women freedom & liberation" because we(mulims) do suppress women apparently?!
Why do we have to repeat the same mistake if we can prove them wrong. Yes, they're super power nation but it doesn't mean they're right in everything.
3) If women in the western had been given all their rights, then why we do not see women running countries apart from England's Queen?
More correction, we have Queen Beatrix of Holland, and following countries with female head of state to date
Finland
Latvia
Ireland
Canada
Panama
and many more who are retired already
KING_OF_ALL
08-01-05, 09:00 AM
...
correction, UK's queen isnt running a country .
NZ have a woman prime minister and she is a good one.
I said...apart from UK's Queen.
And just to be more clear in the third question..I meant actual RULERS and not prime minister or head of states! As that is just what a democratic system would impose on their organization.
Arabian Princess
08-01-05, 10:51 PM
HH, from experience, I never saw or heared that you are paid less in Oman being a woman (eg. both are technicians but the male is paid more because he is a male ). Can you name an organization that does that??
KING_OF_ALL
08-01-05, 11:03 PM
....Yes, talking from personal experience, I would say thsi problem do exist very much. The shame part, it happened to be state owned company.
ok..evidence plz!
H-Highness
10-01-05, 09:14 AM
I'm not trying to create things but take it from me...It would not be suitable to name the Co. name in here as I said earlier it is state owned Co.
Shinoda LP
10-01-05, 09:41 AM
One of India's most famous prime minister was the late Indira Gandhi. Sri Lanka's president was Chandrika Kumaratunga.
India and Sri Lanka aren't in the West either.
The UK had a female Prime Minister as well from 1979 to 1991.
KING_OF_ALL
10-01-05, 01:23 PM
ok ok..i know there loads of prime ministers but not presidents!
HH..dont name the organization..but can you explain in detail the unfairness you experienced in detail plz?
Shinoda and Mimosa..how about answering the 1st two as well;)
We don't have a president. The Prime Minister is the Head of Goverment and the most powerful person, and the Queen is the symbolic Head of State. We have had women in both roles.
To answer the other questions, I think there are problems in the GCC countries with women rising to senior levels. But I would say Oman has made great progress in this respect, and is the best in the Gulf by a long way.
As for the percentage of earnings of women in the UK and elswhere, I think this is slightly misleading. The main reason is that more women who work in the UK are doing part-time work or temporary unskilled work, often to fit in with family responsibilities (yes, some people in the West still do that too! :p)! But by law, if a woman is doing the same job, she must get exactly the sam pay that a man would get, including the same bonus structure. If not, she can take the employer to an industrial tribunal if she feels she's been underpaid or passed over for promotion because of her gender. Many women have won these cases.
Although I think Oman is a shining example of successful women, perhaps there needs to be a tightening up of the rights of employees, and an easier system for dealing with employment problems (like the industrial tribunal system which gets round the need to go to court with all the delay and expense that means), to give similar guarantees.
Oh yeah...silly question...what on earth has this got to do with religion?! Shouldn't it be in either Business or Social Problems?!
Hmmm...as if by magic! :D
KING_OF_ALL
10-01-05, 10:37 PM
Thanx mimosa for your reply.
I dont understand why ppl still say there is a problem with the equal chances given to women. There are many women who are ministers in Oman already!!! Probably its not perfect but its as far as women concerned it is..since they normally do have other family responsibilities!
The point of raising this thread is to reply to those people who think in Islam women are tortured and not given their rights. Personally I think, for a women becoming a minister is well a good example. I've never seen someone complaining about this but yet you keep hearing those false accusations!
H-Highness
11-01-05, 04:04 AM
OK
I and my male fellow colleague were hired on the same date doing the same kind of job. Qulafication wise I'm much better than him even when it comes to experience, I was under impression our salary range would be almost equal because we work on scale salary system, but to my surprise I was astonished to find out that he earns 25% than I do and really this got me pissed off.
Anyhow I didn't overeact about it I just knew that I'll have to quite one day. I worked with them for about 2 years or so and then I resign, ofcourse not solely for that matter but circumstance sorrounding the situation made me to make that decision.
Arabian Princess
11-01-05, 09:32 PM
I am sorry to hear that HH .. but yet, thats not a proof enough to say that women are paid less for the same job. there must be a different reason for your case but it cannot be based on gender only.
KING_OF_ALL
11-01-05, 10:07 PM
...
Anyhow I didn't overeact about it I just knew that I'll have to quite one day. I worked with them for about 2 years or so and then I resign, ofcourse not solely for that matter but circumstance sorrounding the situation made me to make that decision.
I'm sure this company is not adhereing with the Ministry of Labours requirements..you should have made a complain when you first knew it and even take it further to court if necessary. When you stayed quiet, the big cats in your company took advantage..if you see what i mean!
Maybe be it's because there's not a quick, transparent system for resolving these things like I said above. Have you ever tried taking anyone to court in Oman, Koala?!
H-Highness
12-01-05, 08:19 AM
I am sorry to hear that HH .. but yet, thats not a proof enough to say that women are paid less for the same job. there must be a different reason for your case but it cannot be based on gender only.
My dear...
Its up to you to believe, all I wanted to convince you Oman is not Utopia as you think. There's gender discrimination big time if you don't know.
The issue was so sensitive and complicated to take to court, cause I'm 100% that there's no a valid reason why I was underpaid.
H-Highness
12-01-05, 08:21 AM
I'm sure this company is not adhereing with the Ministry of Labours requirements..you should have made a complain when you first knew it and even take it further to court if necessary. When you stayed quiet, the big cats in your company took advantage..if you see what i mean!
I wish I had a guts to do so...thanks anyway
Arabian Princess
12-01-05, 08:22 AM
Dear, am talking here coz I come form an HR department .. they are not allowed to discriminate your pay according to gender. I am talking from a policy point of view.
I am not saying Oman was an utopia or something, your company might have done a mistake, but if they are legaly backed .. its not related to a rule related to gender.
H-Highness
12-01-05, 08:25 AM
Maybe be it's because there's not a quick, transparent system for resolving these things like I said above. Have you ever tried taking anyone to court in Oman, Koala?!
Somehow as you say. I have never appear in court anywhere in this world, if you want I would try on you. :D
H-Highness
12-01-05, 08:27 AM
PS: I think the title is misleading. I was wondering what Equity got to do with gender discrimination unless you mean Equality. Correct me if I'm wrong!
I don't work yet, so I really have no clue whether men are paid more than women around here.
Anyway, I don't think it's fair to descriminate between the genders when it comes to this, and I can't understand the concept behind it, unless it's the whole issue of the man being responsible of bringing money to the house and so deserves to be paid more even if the woman works harder and is more productive in her job.
HH, I have never discriminated against you! Bring it on - ana baree2 !
KING_OF_ALL
12-01-05, 10:30 PM
...
Have you ever tried taking anyone to court in Oman, Koala?!
Perhaps we should raise our concerns to the Lion King..if thats suits you.
KING_OF_ALL
12-01-05, 10:36 PM
My dear...
Its up to you to believe, all I wanted to convince you Oman is not Utopia as you think. There's gender discrimination big time if you don't know.
The issue was so sensitive and complicated to take to court, cause I'm 100% that there's no a valid reason why I was underpaid.
Nobody said it is an Utopia..yes we are far not complete but your case could be definitely be resolved..I can't see why not! Its like saying..my salary is 500 R.O. but my boss at work would keep me ONLY if I payed him 100 R.O. from it every month.
You said you dont have the guts..you could do it through a family member or a friend. Unless you knew that you were leaving and didnt want to take the effort!
KING_OF_ALL
12-01-05, 10:39 PM
PS: I think the title is misleading. I was wondering what Equity got to do with gender discrimination unless you mean Equality. Correct me if I'm wrong!
From Dictionary,
Equity ---> Fairness
Equality ---> Identical in size, quantity, degree, etc.
Both words are valid.
You are quite correct Koala. But equity in modern times more commonly means a financial stake in something, and I misunderstood too until I opened the thread.
Pineapple Thief
13-01-05, 02:09 AM
I was inspired by a 'live talk show' about..Problem of less wages for women in Europe!
Problem details..
Women in UK earns 81% of what men earns
Women earn 88% of what men earn in France
The statistics are the figures I heard with my own ears and they are based on genders and not competence or extra skill.
These stats alone dont give an accurate enough picture. from this, i understand women earn 81% as much as men do in the UK average. Could it be that on average the working women in the UK are not as skilled, i.e. the ones that work dont have qualifications as good as the men?
What variables are being taken for granted? How large a sample was taken? Statistics are very sensitive to manipulation.... it could be that women of the same education level as men are actually paid more! (im not saying it is, im just with the info given its entirely possible).
please ignore me, ive been drowning in stats textbooks these past few weeks, so just continue the discussion :P
KING_OF_ALL
13-01-05, 04:46 PM
You are quite correct Koala. But equity in modern times more commonly means a financial stake in something, and I misunderstood too until I opened the thread.
Ok samosa..sorry for misleading you.
KING_OF_ALL
13-01-05, 04:52 PM
These stats alone dont give an accurate enough picture. from this, i understand women earn 81% as much as men do in the UK average. Could it be that on average the working women in the UK are not as skilled, i.e. the ones that work dont have qualifications as good as the men?..
I said..women earn 81% of what men earns and obviously the facts/variables you were concerned about should have been put into account. Unless you are in doubt with UK finance professionals!
The topic after all is about the EQUALITY between both genders in Islam and western perception.
Sorry if Equity was mis-leading, moderators if you can change the title of this thread to Equality will be much appreciated.
KOA, the title is equality, maybe one of the super mods changed it.:)
KING_OF_ALL
14-01-05, 01:13 AM
KOA, the title is equality, maybe one of the super mods changed it.:)
Yes..Thank you Mods.
My answers,
1) Do we have similar problem in Oman or in any Islamic state?
Never heard of it(with the exception to the small companies and institutions who are not running under the ministry of labour regulations), there are job groups where I work and both genders receive what they are suppose to according to their qualifications and skills.
2) If these two european countries, who happen to be two of the five super powers in the world, cannot give women their deserved wage..should we still follow them as models for our "women freedom & liberation" because we (mulims) do suppress women apparently?!
As other members said it above, if we have a better system why we should follow them. But sadly, we keep hearing those movements about women rights which brings nothing but distruction(example; western world).
3) If women in the western had been given all their rights, then why we do not see women running countries apart from England's Queen?(only RULERS and not head of states/prime ministers).
Women is tricked easier than man (no offense meant) and they are more likely to be overwhelmed with catastrophes which could lead them in mis-managing their citizens.
It will be nice to hear from others too, especially westerners.
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