Convert and your welcome, decline and you’re dead meat!

[SoMe1]

There’s this question that has been going over my head for a while now but never had a chance to post about it.

It’s a simple question that could lead to a lot of debates/arguments.

Here we go..

Why can’t Muslims have a choice of choosing other religions without the fear of being killed?

Most Arabs are born Muslims right? So what if someone decided that Islam was not what they wanted, what if they wanted to follow another religion that they think is right for them, why do we get punished by death? Why doesn’t Islam allow us freedom of choice? I don’t see any other religion having such law.

It’s weird when Islam accepts everyone into the religions but would kill you if you choose any other religion then it

Please don’t come saying Islam is right and I shouldn’t doubt etc.. just answer the question if you have one or watch people answer if you don’t have much to add.


Thank you

[amo_l_oman]

Great thread Somy.
Found an Hadith by Bukhari where SAWS said Whoever changes his religion, kill him." and since as stated in Quran, words of Allah and those of the prophet pbuh, cannot be ignored, then Irtidad in Islam is not possible.
I know some who did in secret and more or less their motivations are those of this group:

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/main.htm

[Arabian Princess]

First, Islam is not a religion its a way of Life .. its an ummah .. a nation by itself.

you know, I remmber going through the same discussion way before with the old sabla when you were active .. but the argument was different from your side ;)

Any way, its all comes to the first sentence .. being an ummah you have to defend your land. If a person commited treason (the greatest crime in the UK law) he would be excuted!!
The thing is, causing a fitna is something muslim nation should stop.

Anyway, being a family member .. I advice you to have a talk to my grandfather in Hail .. I asked him them same question when this argument came up and his answer was logical I just cant remmber what he said exactly.

[Wardat_il'7leej]

Your a musilm with your actions and not the label you have as a religion

[SoMe1]

Warda, I’m sorry but I don’t see how your answer is relevant to the topic? Care to elaborate?

Amo thanks for the site, I never imaged I’d read something like that from x-Muslims! I hope no one comes up saying these are Jews who want to destroy Islam!

[Wardat_il'7leej]

What i am said is relevant to the topic...You might not have a choice to decide wither you want to be a Muslim or not when you are born, but being a Muslim is not simply a word you say or a 'label' you have ever since you’re in your mothers womb...

What does Muslim mean? The word comes from Islam which means peace and "submission to the will of God" ...therefore we can assume that all good deed doers are Muslim....since they submit to the will of Allah sub7anah

What i am saying that the choice is simply something that distinguishes you, but all good doers are considered Muslim, which is also those who follow the full nature or will of God.

For example,
All animals are Muslim so are, rocks, trees, birds, sand and air. Your body is considered Muslim i.e. your heart, brain and lungs etc. Since they all conform to the will of God.....
From this we can say that 90% of you is Muslim .....what is left is the 10% which is made up of your conscience.....you decide wither what you do in life is right or wrong, thus leading you to hell or heaven.

You may be born a Muslim but your action is what makes the choice for you

[CrazyReD]

say what you want to say

those claims are stupid

islam says hit the women but not to paing her never leave a mark on her and there are casses not for anything go read tafsser and books and you'll know

as for the quran not being from god then from who? mohammed alah el 9alat wa salam was illetrate didn't know how to read or write how'd he come up with such stuff

as for historical some of the things mentions are mentioned in the bibel and torah
some of the stories about the jews did happen

that site is to trick those with weak faths and don't understand thier religion

[CrazyReD]

now the reason ppl who convert from islam are killed is simply because they will try to cause other people to change by spreading lies just like that web site

happened in the rassool days

anywayz these stuff are just signs of judgement day and guess what it's coming soon hate it or love it

i just hope i'll be a sword fighting for the cause of islam when it happens

[Wardat_il'7leej]

C-red brought another issue.... You would get killed if you choose any other religion because they dont want to make it easy and encourage other people to switch.

If X can change so can ABCD....monkey see monkey do :D

[SoMe1]

Crazy Red, when you choice another religion it might be because you're comfortable with it, it doesn’t mean that Islam is BAD and YOU HATE IT, etc..

I've seen lots of Christian’s covert to Islam; do they bad mouth Christianity after they covert? NO! They just don’t think it suits them and find Islam more of what they want then anything else..

[CrazyReD]

i never siad any were bad and are you saying we are bad mouthing christians?

[Arabian Princess]

Christianty is a Religion

Islam is a NATION -ummah

here comes the differnece ..

[SoMe1]

I need a logical answer please.. ANYONE?

[Wardat_il'7leej]

I thought i gave you something above.... check both posts :S

[CrazyReD]

it'll be hard to find a logical answer here

best thing will be to ask an immam or go read some books

[Arabian Princess]

Some1, if a person betrayed uk.. what would be his punishment? commiting the most severe crime in the UK?
TREASON, which is execution because him belonging to that land gave him a sense of repsonsibilty to take care of it.

Islam as an Ummah need to protect itself .. leaving Islam would create a fitnah, having the severest punishment of all stops that fitna.

I sent your question to shiekh khalfan .. hopefuly he would answer me .. and I would give you the answer back.
I would go with what crazy red said too, this is an answer a bunch of muslims who are learning about thier own religion wouldnt be able to answer you .. if it really worries you and makes you wounder .. you should ask a proper imam or somone with great knowledge.

[Don Khaled]

SoMe1, I wish I had an answer for you, because this is something ticking my mind always. My father once told me; Khaled, you are luck because your parents are christians, because when you converted, we did not kill you, instead, we tried to convince you back to the right path. But, if we were muslims, we would have killed you without questioning you. So where is your so-called just religion?

When such sentence comes from your own father, what would you answer him? In his mind, Islam is "un-just" for such action. No matter what I tell him, he just gives me that statement, and asks me to explain it. I personally do not have any answer for him to convince him (which is logical). I am still searching for something though.

[Enigma]

Qur'an 2:256: "There is no compulsion in religion"

Are we sure that the apostate here isn't more than someone who just peacefully converts? Perhaps the punishment is for someone who converts for reasons to cause problems for the umma and actually does so?

[Wardat_il'7leej]

APOSTASY (IRTIDأD) IN ISLAM:
The act in which a Muslim abandons Islam

Islam teaches that a newborn has an innate ability to know and believe in his creator, and to understand good and evil. Muhammad (pbuh) stated: "Every child is born with the believing nature...it is his parents who make him into a Jew or a Christian."

"Let there be no compulsion in the religion: Surely the Right Path is clearly distinct from the crooked path." Al Baqarah, 2:256

"Those who blasphemed and back away from the ways of Allah and die as blasphemers, Allah shall not forgive them." Suratan Nisa', Ayah 48.

"Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe again, then disbelieve, and then increase in their disbelief - Allah will never forgive them nor guide them to the path." Surah An-Nisa', 4:137.

Apostates have been rarely executed in the 21st century. However, Muslims feel "a powerful sense of rage...when one of their number forsakes the community." 4 They consider it a profound insult to Allah and to all Muslims.

A person born of a Muslim parent who later rejects Islam is called a "Murtad Fitri" (Apostate - natural). This is viewed a treason against God. They are given a second chance. If they repent of their decision, they will be released. A person who converted to Islam and later rejected the religion is a "Murtad Milli" (apostate - from the community.) This is viewed as treason against the community. Male apostates are executed even if they repent. Female apostates are released from imprisonment if they repent.

Source:Religioustolerance.org

[Don Khaled]

Enigma, there is another explination though.

In the days of mohammed SAW, he never allowed anyone to write any hadith. He was worried that it might get mixed with the quran, and people think it is the quran. On the other hand, there are some of his saying which are ONLY to be applied at his time.

At the same time, there some false ahadith, though, some might tell you they are FULLY correct and have no false side about it, but then again, if there is one hadith about it, how sure can they be?

At the days also at the 2nd calpha, umar ibn khatab, the sa7aba wanted to write the prophet's ahaidth and publish them, but umar did not allow it, because he followed mohammed SAW's what he said before.

So basically, you never know, if someone made up such thing, or even miswrote something. Plus, the hadith itself says "Whoever changes his religion, kill him." Was it for specfic people or what?

[Enigma]

Male apostates are executed even if they repent. Female apostates are released from imprisonment if they repent.


Interesting.. I wonder if that somehow matches up with Cred's comment:


ppl who convert from islam are killed is simply because they will try to cause other people to change by spreading lies just like that web site

[Enigma]

Okay wait a minute. Is the 'apostate' here someone who leaves Islam for another religion or is he someone who leaves for kuffir? That would be different than converting to judaism for example.

[SoMe1]

Thank you all for your contribution.

Arabian, the Law in the UK to me does not matter, we're talking about the Law of God.

Why is it implemented in Islam Only? Why don’t other religions kill people who convert to any other religion?

Take what Don Khaled said for instance about his father.

This topic is about the Freedom of choice, why don’t we have it in Islam without being afraid? What’s the point of converting without anyone knowing because you’re afraid you’d be shot? I find that more dangerous then announcing it because then you’d work underneath people and within the Muslim community to try and get more people on your side and perhaps make them covert too.

[Storm]

this question just come to my mind while am reading here

do you think that there is a religion that deserve to convert to ???

when you r muslim and lived in the islam environment and know its rules ,,, and sure you know about other religions rules ,, do you think u want ot convert

[amo_l_oman]

when you r muslim and lived in the islam environment and know its rules ,,, and sure you know about other religions rules ,, do you think u want ot convert
ok and i don't even live in a Muslim environment, but why if there is a person seeing it from another perspective and willing to change, he/she is punished with death

[jack]

First, Islam is not a religion its a way of Life .. its an ummah .. a nation by itself.

you know, I remmber going through the same discussion way before with the old sabla when you were active .. but the argument was different from your side ;)

Any way, its all comes to the first sentence .. being an ummah you have to defend your land. If a person commited treason (the greatest crime in the UK law) he would be excuted!!
The thing is, causing a fitna is something muslim nation should stop.

Anyway, being a family member .. I advice you to have a talk to my grandfather in Hail .. I asked him them same question when this argument came up and his answer was logical I just cant remmber what he said exactly.Your argument is not valid. You are trying to equate islam with a nation. You can give up your citizenship "to any nation" and it does not make you a traitor to be put to death.

You continue to equate islam to other nations with sovereign borders and there is absolutely no equation.

If we take your thinking and apply it to nations that are predominantly “any other religion” are all the muslims living in those countries traitors to their nation and should be put to death? … NO!