Atheists and Agnostics.

[Pineapple Thief]

a·the·ist ( P ) Pronunciation Key (th-st)
n.
One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.


ag·nos·tic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-nstk)
n.

One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.


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Sorry about what Im about to say, but Atheists are amongst the most arrogant people Ive ever met. And Ive met quite a few, I assure you. They believe they are absolutely correct, and give no credence to the views of the rest of the world population. They wont say 'ok, you may be right', rather 'you're all foolish misguided individuals fighting bloody wars for an imaginary being'. And yet they deny they belong to any particular religion.

7 entries found for religion.
re·li·gion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ljn)
n.

A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

They way they believe is no different to those of people of other religions. Now Im not saying atheism is in fact a religion, Im saying that their dedication to it is identical to the dedication of religious peoples. And yet they mock the dedication of religious people, telling them to wake up. Hmm.

Agnostics. I do have respect for this lot: they accept that there may in fact be a God and they may be wrong, and in theory they are ready to accept a God - given the right proof. Unfortunately, this is where Ive seen the theory break down. They ask for miracles. 'Ill believe it when I see it'. 'Ill believe it when I see an angel, or god sends a message'. Isnt this what the kuffar of old asked for? They throw the concept of faith out the window. Without faith, Eman, there is no religion. We dont believe in God because we saw angels before, we have faith. But back to the main issue, I think even an atheist would believe would such a miracle occur. anyone who continues to deny it, well, they must be blind, simply put.

Thus, the distinction on paper between atheists and agnostics.

[DorellaM]

Good info there pine, I have always wanted to ask them these 2 questions:

1. Do they believe in eternity or does everything have a begining and an end.
2. If everything has a beginning and an end, then when did the universe begin and what is beyond the sky?

How would they answer that??

[Pineapple Thief]

Im not an atheist or an agnostic, but I know that they believe that there is no afterlife for humans. I suppose that things just go on and on, and take the 'natural' course of things. Its funny sometimes how they point to nature and say 'its a perfect system thats developed over time. Proof that God doesnt exist'. And theistic people will point to nature and say, 'see the perfection of nature. A beautiful system that sustains itself. Proof of the existance of God!'. Goes to show that anything can be argued from any angle.

I actually know a number of Agnostics who do not follow any organised religion, or believe in 'God', but they do very much believe in 'a higher being', basically something behind it all. Ive asked one of them what inspires this feeling, and he said 'well, I look around, I see the beauty of the world, everything in it, and sometimes you just get a feeling inside...' he couldnt describe. He did go on to bash modern religions by saying they all did nothing but promote hatred and bloodshed. So you see, a lot of them have pure intentions, and a semblance of faith, but unfortunately misinformation about the main religions (not always their fault: just turn on the TV...terrorists killing in the name of God, child-molesting priests, etc.) leads to disgust which leads to them turning away. Many of the ones I know have a great respect for Buddhism, because its more a philosophy than a religion, and a reputably peaceful one at that.

[Enigma]

Now Im not saying atheism is in fact a religion, Im saying that their dedication to it is identical to the dedication of religious peoples.
I think it is a religion based on "religion"'s definition in the dictionary. If a religion is a belief & way of life then believing that there isn't a God is also a religion.


Isnt this what the kuffar of old asked for? They throw the concept of faith out the window. Without faith, Eman, there is no religion. We dont believe in God because we saw angels before, we have faith.
All human beings need to see something to believe in it, the question is how much or WHAT you need to see in order to believe. I may have not witnessed a movie-esque miracle but I've seen my mother bore four boys, I've seen a plant die and then come back to life, I've seen the sun shine one day and the snow fall the next day.. Anyone who isn't an atheist does not need to see God not because he blindly has faith in his existence but because he's seen the miracles of God's creations. We know there is a God because His touch is everywhere from our finger prints to a rainforrest.

So what I think is, that atheists ask for too much and ignore what's around them. Maybe not so much arrogant as ignorant.

[Wanderer]

1. Do they believe in eternity or does everything have a begining and an end.

It would appear that to us, most everthing has a beginning and an end.



2. If everything has a beginning and an end, then when did the universe begin and what is beyond the sky?


a) 15 billion years ago

b) if by "sky" you mean our atmosphere, the answer is outer space. If by "sky" you mean what is visible or detectable from Earth, we don't know.


Neither of your questions should inspire one to believe in any particular god or gods.

[Wanderer]

Sorry about what Im about to say, but Atheists are amongst the most arrogant people Ive ever met. And Ive met quite a few, I assure you. They believe they are absolutely correct, and give no credence to the views of the rest of the world population.


Good to see you expressing that you have serious doubts about Islam.


:gap:

[DorellaM]

Infact was not an attempt to make someone beleive in God. It's just 2 questions i have always wanted to ask an athiest-that's all .....

[Wanderer]

Infact was not an attempt to make someone beleive in God. It's just 2 questions i have always wanted to ask an athiest-that's all .....

Can there be eternity without gods ?

Can gods be created and destroyed ?

[Scorpio27]

Good info there pine, I have always wanted to ask them these 2 questions:

1. Do they believe in eternity or does everything have a begining and an end.
2. If everything has a beginning and an end, then when did the universe begin and what is beyond the sky?

How would they answer that??

Yes, nice question Dore, I feel sunken when I think about the issues. Those are beyond our knowledge.


:bang: :scratch:

[DorellaM]

Can there be eternity without gods ?

Can gods be created and destroyed ?


a) Yea, why not....
b) No, God has been and has always been<-----This is my personal beleif wandy. It's written in religious books and i choose to believe this. Others don't. If you don't beleive in a certain religion than obvisouley there is no proof of such thing.

I AM NOT, I STRESS, AM NOT TRYING TO MAKE SOMEONE BELEIVE IN GOD, I JUST ALWAYS WONDERED WHAT ATHEISTS THOUGHT ABOUT THOSE COUPLE ISSUES. :twitch:

[Wanderer]

I think it is a religion based on "religion"'s definition in the dictionary. If a religion is a belief & way of life then believing that there isn't a God is also a religion. .

By your crafted definition perhaps. But religion usually requires belief in a spiritual realm and in supernatural forces. Superstition.

I don't require a spiritual realm nor spirits to make sense of the world, so my "atheism" isn't any kind of religion.

I would argue that "atheism" is a somewhat unnecessary term for a mentally healthy state. That is, "Atheism" is to "Religion" as "healthy" is to "disease".

Religion and religious belief is a form of mental illness not far from Schizophrenia. Look it up.

[Pineapple Thief]

Of course, you would aruge that, just as I would argue differently. Theres bias there, as expected.

And no, Im not having serious doubts about Islam, just as nothing has convinced you of the existance of a God, nothing has convinced me of any weakness in Islam. I simply state that I, unlike some others who have a belief in some sort (be it in a God or the lack thereof), accept that I may be mistaken (and dont throw that 'Ill believe it when I witness a miracle' rhetoric at me: ive expained that).

[Wanderer]

I simply state that I, unlike some others who have a belief in some sort (be it in a God or the lack thereof), accept that I may be mistaken ...

Very good. So you understand that Islam may be the wrong choice.

I'm not as worried about the simple believing in gods and such, it's the behaviors (with God's will as the justification) that often go along with it.

There could be a god, or gods, or none. If there is a god, it might not be the one you worship. If there are gods, you may or may not be worshipping one of them when you worship the one you learned to worship.

But the whole concept of believing in sprits, hearing voices, and magic places/rocks/caves, and such is closer to mental illness than rational thinking.

[Cetacea]

Sorry about what Im about to say, but Atheists are amongst the most arrogant people Ive ever met. And Ive met quite a few, I assure you. They believe they are absolutely correct, and give no credence to the views of the rest of the world population.

Good to see you expressing that you have serious doubts about Islam. :gap:
Substitute Atheists with Muslims and you get a pretty accurate description of some of the Muslims I’ve met in person and online. ;)

Wanderer, nice to have you back. The twins must be tiring you out. :)

[Cetacea]

So you see, a lot of them have pure intentions, and a semblance of faith, but unfortunately misinformation about the main religions (not always their fault: just turn on the TV...terrorists killing in the name of God, child-molesting priests, etc.) leads to disgust which leads to them turning away.
The majority of the people are well-behaved regardless of their religious affiliations. I’m an agnostic not because of the behavior of a few religious fanatics, but the contradictions in the scriptures both internally and externally. If God is almighty, and the XYZ book is directly from God, I’d expect the book to more or less match the observable reality, or at least be more accurate in describing the natural world than my elementary level text book. When it is clearly not the case, I can only conclude that the book was of human origin, written long time ago when people didn’t understand the world as well as we do today.


Many of the ones I know have a great respect for Buddhism, because its more a philosophy than a religion, and a reputably peaceful one at that.
Agree with you on Buddhism. All the Buddhists I’ve met are not too concerned with other people’s beliefs and they seem to be genuine when talking about tolerance, peace and love.

[Cetacea]

I've seen the sun shine one day and the snow fall the next day.. Anyone who isn't an atheist does not need to see God not because he blindly has faith in his existence but because he's seen the miracles of God's creations.
I can perhaps be convinced that a God or Gods made the snow, but I don’t see the connection between the snow and your God. How do you know it’s your God that made the snow fall? Worshiping a God with no proof or logic whatsoever is like a crap shoot – you can only hope you picked the right one.

[Wanderer]

So what I think is, that atheists ask for too much and ignore what's around them. Maybe not so much arrogant as ignorant.

Perhaps we just have a better grasp of that whole Cause and Effect notion bundled with a lack of superstition.

We assume that no spirits, ghosts, or devils were required when you type on your computer keyboard and the letters appear on the screen. :hyper:

[NicoBambi]

i'm an atheist and i'm not arrogant at all ...
do u hate me for that ? ah ??

[Pineapple Thief]

No Nico, I dont hate you. I dont even know you. But from what I've seen on this forum, you seem like a very friendly, down-to-earth and non-judgemental guy, and I do like that.

I believe what you believe is a personal choice, and I wouldnt hate anyone because of what they believe in, or dont believe in. What makes me dislike the athiests I've met personally is that (as I say the ones I've met) are quite disrespectful towards me and my religion, and my beliefs. I've met quite a few athiests (i'm talking in the range of 15+) and almost all of them were quite self-centered, and had a sort of victim mentality. Ironically it seems, as Wanderer and MoonChild said, many Muslims seem that way today.

But my post did come across as being very generalising. I'm sorry if it offended you! :)

[NicoBambi]

u dont offense me ;)
it's just that we (atheists) dont trust/believe in a god because it's not real thing (u can c or touch him)
in my childhood i havent hear abt any gods soo it's hard for me to trust/believe in a god or another :rolleyes:
but i do respect u and what u believe in ...

[sheik-al-Tort]

The position of the agnostic is a rational one based on personal observation and some knowledge of science such as evolution. The position of atheist is by definition irrational as it concludes based on the same information that God cannot exist.
The agnostic recongises that he or she doesn't know very much - the atheist demonstrates great faith in their assumptions based on such sketchy fragments of reality.

At the heart of these two views I suspect there are very different perceptions.
The former is by nature open, the latter closed.

Oddly enough, in any religion you tend to get the same. Those who are certain and definite without any question are very similar to atheists don't you think?

I think it was St Thomas Aquinas a great catholic thinker back in 1500s who when praying to God made the plea:

''I believe, help my unbelief'' - by which he meant I think ''God I do believe, but in daily life my beliefs are often challenged and doubt creeps in. My rational side interferes with my spiritual certainty. I have doubts, please help me''

Such a person is much more like the agnostic, and as such less of a threat to fellow man or woman.

Give me the doubters the uncertain any time over the certain!

[mimosa]

Fair point Sheikh. The most convicted are always the least tolerant.

As some of the posts above demonstrate, atheism is indeed the the truly "bilnd faith". The paradox of obsessed atheists is that they claim science as their own, yet when it comes to a higher power and purpose, they insist that nothing can be real if they have not seen it personally!

[UnKnown]

Believers or none believers in specific. Scientifically, the idea of a divine being behind everything we see, feel is not far fetched.


“We could be the product of someone else’s experiment.” (http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/W/what_we_still_dont_know/)

This discussion is perhaps part of the experiment, without it, nothing is real!