Seeing Allah Subhanahu watalaa

[CatChy]

What's your ONE wish you really wish for yourself, not your friend or family or enemy?



*Seriously I want to have the answer badly*

Why can’t the good people who will go to paradise be able to see Allah in the hereafter according to the Abadhiyah’s belief?

Don’t tell me because they have limited abilities or He (SWT) shouldn’t be seen.

[Arabian Princess]

Now why are you guys turning this to a mathahab dicussion. Catchy Abadhadiya would answer you because Allah is not an entity that could be seen. He doesnt have a shape that contains him ..
Let us be good enough first and then start discuss if we could see him or not :(

Ice Tea and Haroun, another mathahab differences. we just wish that All of us go to Heaven inshallah, no mention of Jahanab ya raab.

[CatChy]

. He doesnt have a shape that contains him ..
Let us be good enough first and then start discuss if we could see him or not :(


Not a perfect answer though.

[Arabian Princess]

Not a perfect answer though

dear what would be a perfect answer?? you beleive it in that way .. whateevr answer I give you wouldnt be perfect ;)

[IceTea]

Why can’t the good people who will go to paradise be able to see Allah in the hereafter according to the Abadhiyah’s belief?

Don’t tell me because they have limited abilities or He (SWT) shouldn’t be seen.

CatChy, refer to this (http://www.ibadhiyah.net/maktabah/showthread.php?s=&threadid=107&perpage=1&pagenumber=3) and you will get the truth.

[Arabian Princess]

you see ya bnayti .. you BELEIVE that Allah will be seen, what do you need me to tell you to convince you otherwise?? in my opinion .. you really need a mind manipulater to do that .. when when something reaches to a person's beleive, its really hard to change it!! same goes to my beleives dear .. I didnt meant it something related to you.

I gave you the answer every Abadhai would tell you ..
Allah is something intangible .. you cant see him because he wouldnt have a shape .. as I understand sunnah beleive that allah have a hand and a face and so on, we beleive its something inconsiderable because we are relating him to human features. Plus there is an Ayah when moses alleh al salam asked Allah to see him .. he said (bi ma ma3nah): lan tarani! .. Allah didnt say, you will not see me now .. but he used the word "lan" which means you will never see me.

at the end, I beleive these are ghaybiyat .. so what if I beleive that I will not see Allah and you would?!! as long as my work in this earth is considered to Allah acceptable .. then if I will see him or not its up to him on the day of Judgment!!
Allah judges you according to your deeds in this earth not according to what your mathahb beleives in!!

I am really sorry I went really off topic, i just wanted to explain my point to catchy

[CatChy]

Allah judges you according to your deeds in this earth not according to what your mathahb beleives in!

Thanks to take the time to type all of this. I really do know all what you have mentioned, but the problem is that the Abadhiyah whom I know (very educated religious people) make me very confused and focus only on this point of “the disability of seeing Allah in the hereafter”. Whenever I say that Allah will judge us on our deeds they come up with different evidences that show the importance of the right 3aqeedah “belief”. They always tell me that if your 3aqeedah is wrong like believing in the ability of seeing Allah then you are not on the right path. How the hell would they know that sunnah belief is not RIGHT!!

Me: I don’t really find myself able to tell if we are going to see Him or not.
All I am working on now is to get to paradise.

They: you can’t do that. You HAVE to decide now: see Him or not see Him.
Me: I don’t know.
They: Abadhiyah or suniyah?
Me: suniyah.
They: then you believe in seeing Him. And this is wrong because Allah is ….bla blab la …And your 3aqeedah is …bla….bla ..bla..

[IceTea]

Icy: I read that book & I spent almost 10 months studying about Ibadhiyah beliefs. I don’t need links or books to read. I need somebody to convince me about the point mentioned above (for now).

Catchy,

Please note below 3 Hadiths.


1 - ما رواه الإمامان البخاري ومسلم وغيرهما عن أبي موسى الأشعري عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أنه قال جنتان من فضة آنيتهما وما فيهما ، وجنتان من ذهب آنيتهما وما فيهما ، وما بين القوم وبين أن ينظروا إلى ربهم إلا رداء الكبرياء على وجهه في جنة عد ن ، ووجه الاستدلال به صراحته في عدم رؤيتهم لله لحيلولة رداء الكبرياء بينهم وبين ذلك ، والكبرياء صفة ذاتية لله عز وجل لا يمكن أن يتخلى عنها كما لا يتخلى عن القدرة ، أو العلم ، أو الإرادة ، أو الحياة أو السمع ، أو البصر ، إذ لو تخلى عنها في أي لحظة لكان منقلبا عنها إلى ضدها وهو الصغار المنافي لربوبيته تعالى ، فمن ادَّعى مع هذا النفي رؤيته سبحانه لزمه سلب الكبرياء عن الذات العلية
ما أخرجه مسلم عن أبي ذر رضي الله عنه أنه عليه أفضل الصلاة والسلام قال عندما سئل عن رؤيته لربه {نور أنَّى أرا ه} . ووجه الاستدلال به أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم استبعد فيه حصول الرؤية بقوله {أنَّى أرا ه} فإن أنَّى بمعنى كيف ، وهو شاهد على استحالة رؤيته تعالى.

2-ما أخرجه مسلم عن أبي موسى الأشعري قال :
قام فينا رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم بخمس كلمات فقال :
إن الله عز وجل لا ينام ولا ينبغي له أن ينام
يخفض القسط ويرفعه
يرفع إليه عمل الليل قبل عمل النهار وعمل النهار قبل عمل الليل
حجابه النور - وفي رواية النار
لو كشفه لأحرقت سبحات وجهه ما انتهى إليه بصره من خلقه


Sorry for going off topic!

Back to the topic I wish the Americans to leave Iraq and the Jewish to leave Palestine.

[Arabian Princess]

Catchy, there are sunnah people who say that Abadhayia are kafara (some of them are from my own family unfourtountly!!) .. I wouldnt go judge all sunnah people because of some people!!

Personaly, I really dont think that this beleive would change a 3aqeedah .. your 3aqeedah is Islam, you beleive in Allah and prophet mohammed .. You beleive in Quran!

Plus, our own mufti keeps on repeating that no one has any right to judge if the deeds are accepted or not .. that what I respect in him very much.

Let them say whatever they want, and you have to judge a situation according to what you see it.

I will split this thread and move it to Islamic sabla.

[HaYa]

Arby , I understand what CatChy is saying , It touches al3aqeeda when it comes to Tafseer alQuran , Correct me if am wrong there is one ayah which states seeing Allah , i cant recall it properly so i wont write it , the translation differs from sunnah to Ibadhah, according to that ayah sunnah believes that the chosen ones will See Allah SWT , and Ibadhah doesnt. its all related to Tafseer.


as I understand sunnah beleive that allah have a hand and a face and so on, we beleive its something inconsiderable because we are relating him to human features

This is New to me !!!..i've never heard of this, all I know that No one knows the being of Allah, arby are you sure of what you just said ??

[Arabian Princess]

This is what I know, I might be wrong.

[CatChy]

as I understand sunnah beleive that allah have a hand and a face and so on, we beleive its something inconsiderable because we are relating him to human features


Ahil Al-sunah believe that Allah gets angry when his slaves disobey him and he gets happy when they return to the right path. They also believe in what you mentioned, that he has face/ hands, but NOT like his creatures. They strongly refuse the idea of describing Him. As Haya mentioned it's all about different tafseer books.

"ليس كمثله شيء" Non is like Him

[Scorpio27]

I don't want to see him, may be i don't dare to face him (SWT) the almighty:(

[Arabian Princess]

Catchy, just to clarify one point .. we are considered "ahil ilsunna" because we follow sunat al rasool too ;)
any way its just something I had to mention ..

Any way, I was searching the net and came to this beatifuly said conclusion .. and thought of showing you:
الخلاصة:

مِمَّا سبق يمكن أن نخلص إِلىَ أن المسألة خلافية، وَإنَّمَا أردت أن أبيِّن بَعض الأدلة التي اعتمدها الإباضية وغيرهم من المذاهب الإِسلاَمية، لأَنَّ الكثير من الناس يجهلونها، وتبقى القضية تحتاج إِلىَ الرجوع إِلىَ المطولات في الإطلاع عَلَى هَذِهِ المسألة بتفصيل، ولا يسعنا في هذا المقال استقصاء جميع الأقوال والأدلة، ومناقشتها. والإباضية لا ينكرون على أحد أن يأخذ بأي رأي يشاءه، وَإنَّمَا ينكرونه التعصب المقيت الذِي لا يستند إِلىَ حجة، وَإنَّمَا هو إتباع للهوى، وحكم بغير بَيِّنَة، و«عدو الإنسان ما جهل» وهذا الذي يرفضه العقل والنقل، وهو الذي أدى ببعض العلماء لأن يقولوا: «إِنَّ الإباضية لديهم خلل في العقيدة»، ومنهم: من صرح بكفر من أنكر الرؤية، وأفتى بعدم جواز الصلاة خلفهم، وقد تهور أحدهم حتَّى قال: «لو وُجدت دولة إسلامية فإن منكر الرؤية يجب أن تحز رقبته».

ومن المعلوم أن المسلم لا يكفر إِلاَّ بإنكار صريح القرآن أو تأويل آيات القرآن بما لا تحتمله اللغة العربية، أو أن تكون أعماله مخالفة لصريح القرآن. فكيف يجرؤ مسلم بتكفير مسلم لمجرد الاختلاف في فهم معاني القرآن الكريم.

و الذي أريد أن أؤكده هنا أن القضايا الخلافية لا يمكن أن تكون أصلا من أصول العقيدة، لأن أصول العقيدة لا يمكن أن تُبنى عَلَى ما اختلف في تأويله من آيات القرآن ولا عَلَى الأحاديث الأحادية أو المرسلة, وَإنَّمَا تُبنى عَلَى المتفق عَلَى معناه من كتاب الله تعالى، وعلى الأحاديث الصحيحة الصريحة التي لا تعارض نصا ثابتا


It says in conclusion, that this difference in Quran tafseer is not in the core of the beleive, and every one has the right to think as he thinks. It says, a muslim shouldnt be called kafer unless he goes aginst a clear verst of Islamic Aqeeda, not something that have different tafseer.

got it from this site: http://www.istiqama.net/index.htm

[Haroundb]

==================
القران:
==================
قال تعالى ﴿وجوه يومئذ ناضرة[22] إلى ربها ناظرة[23] ووجوه يومئذ باسرة[24] تظن أن يفعل بها فاقرة[25]﴾ ( سورة القيامة الآية: 22).

[22] Some faces, that Day, will beam (in brightness and beauty);

[23] Looking towards their Lord;

[24] And some faces, that Day, will be sad and dismal

[25] In the thought that some backbreaking calamity was about to be inflicted on them;


==================
الحديث:
==================

وهو حَدِيثُ جَرِيرِ بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ قَالَ : كُنَّا جُلُوسًا عِنْدَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ إِذْ نَظَرَ إِلَى الْقَمَرِ لَيْلَةَ الْبَدْرِ فَقَالَ أَمَا إِنَّكُمْ سَتَرَوْنَ رَبَّكُمْ كَمَا تَرَوْنَ هَذَا الْقَمَرَ لَا تُضَامُّونَ فِي رُؤْيَتِهِ فَإِنِ اسْتَطَعْتُمْ أَنْ لَا تُغْلَبُوا عَلَى صَلَاةٍ قَبْلَ طُلُوعِ الشَّمْسِ وَقَبْلَ غُرُوبِهَا يَعْنِي الْعَصْرَ وَالْفَجْرَ فَافْعَلُوا ثُمَّ قَرَأَ جَرِيرٌ ( وَسَبِّحْ بِحَمْدِ رَبِّكَ قَبْلَ طُلُوعِ الشَّمْسِ وَقَبْلَ غُرُوبِهَا ) * " . رواه البخاري (554 ، 573، 743، 4851) ومسلم (633، 1002) وأحمد (18394) والترمذي (2477 ) وأبو داود (4104) وابن ماجة (173).

Jareer said, "We were with the Prophet and he looked at the moon--full-moon--and said, 'Certainly you will see your Lord as you see this moon and you will have no trouble in seeing Him. So if you can avoid missing (through sleep or business, etc.) a prayer before the sun-rise (Fajr) and a prayer before sunset ('Asr), you must do so.' He then recited Allah's Statement: :-------------------------------------------------------------:

If these are not to be considered a proof, then no problem, what would that affect our religion anyway?

I believe that if you want to see Allah, then Allah will satisfy your request, how I don't know, and it will not help to know how that is going to happen. Why make it so flat (eye sight)? Things are going to be different in Heaven, and our measurements here really irrelative. We have to broaden our minds a little.

Those who see it is (impossible), what would they say if it turned to be (possible)? And those who say it is (possible), what would they say if it was (impossible)? What if it was from a relative point of view? If it was said that we are going to see Allah (SWT), like a full moon, would it be difficult for Him to do so? Is it difficult for Allah to show us things without using our eyes? What is the problem here? Why are we limiting every thing to our limited minds and senses? Why we relate it to what we have here on earth?

I think this subject is simple and wouldn’t need that much dispute. What we don’t know about is something out of our conclusion. And if Allah wanted us to know more about it, he would have reviled more about it (OK). But he knows our limitations, so he is keeping it from us till the day we override our limitation, even for a better understanding of how he looks like. So I think it is better to ask Allah if it was possible, to have the opportunity to enjoy it.

Ameen.

[Arabian Princess]

And if Allah wanted us to know more about it, he would have reviled more about it (OK). But he knows our limitations, so he is keeping it from us till the day we override our limitation, even for a better understanding of how he looks like.

exactly, I also dont think its a big issue .. and it really annoys me when people make a big deal of it!!
I meant here as a discussion and not because I think its a big deal ;)

[Amir]

Ok someone translate that please, I can't read arabic, not that I can't but I can't understand that! Please this topic is interesting, and I want to know what is written in Arabic in Haroun's post! PLEASEEEEEEEE

[Arabian Princess]

Its a Quranic verse and a hadith, it cant be translated just like that :os

in order to understand this discussion arabic language is very important in my opinion :p

[Haroundb]

Ok someone translate that please, I can't read arabic, not that I can't but I can't understand that! Please this topic is interesting, and I want to know what is written in Arabic in Haroun's post! PLEASEEEEEEEE
Done Amir, check the post again, it is in blue ;)
Sorry ...

[Arabian Princess]

Haroun, I said it cannot be translated because its translated according to the beleive of the translator.

Abadhiya beleive that the word "Nadhira" in the verse means waiting, not looking towards.

[Haroundb]

Haroun, I said it cannot be translated because its translated according to the beleive of the translator.

Abadhiya beleive that the word "Nadhira" in the verse means waiting, not looking towards.
I just wanted to have Amir understand what are we posting in Arabic. For Abadhyah to say they are waiting or not, this is another story.

By the way, why would they say so if the rest of the Muslim world agreed that it is looking towards Allah? This is strange, I don’t understand!

[Arabian Princess]

its explained in the site I posted above .. I if I put here I will have to translate the who thing which is not easy at all :os

[CatChy]

AP: thanks
Subhanallah I felt very relieved after reading Haroundb‘s words.. Jazaka Allahu Khairan :)

[Haroundb]

AP...What they have said is fine, but I wonder why they have a different opinion in every thing? Is it a point of strength to have the whole Islamic nation say something and come up with something totally opposite and say it is my point of view? If the majority of Muslims agree on something I think that we have to follow it all, isn’t it?

Anyway, I think as far as we agree on the basics of Islam, there will be no problem to dispute the non-assured subjects.:)

[Kazablanka]

I dont know why ppl argue about if we are going to see Him or not. I consider is '3aib.. and no one will ever know until the day of judgment. So just leave it be. What will you benifit from knowing anyway?

[Haroundb]

Subhanallah I felt very relieved after reading Haroundb‘s words.. Jazaka Allahu Khairan :)
Thank God ... and may Allah bless you and me and all the Muslims.
Amen...

[CatChy]

I dont know why ppl argue about if we are going to see Him or not. I consider is '3aib.. and no one will ever know until the day of judgment. So just leave it be. What will you benifit from knowing anyway?

Yes right Kaza, but they told me that I HAVE to decide wither I believe in seeing him or not otherwise my 3aqeeda (belief) is not TRUE!! I was really confused :os

[Kazablanka]

Who said you HAVE to decide.... HUH? *speechless and confused* ...

[CatChy]

Who said you HAVE to decide.... HUH? *speechless and confused* ...
An Ebadhiyah religious girl. She said it’s very essential and it’s related to 3adeeqa and that would show if you are following the right path or you are crossing the red line when you “claim” that you’ll see God which as she said is considered lying on Allah and a great sin. :os

[Kazablanka]

Some people are SO WRONG!

[Arabian Princess]

An Ebadhiyah religious girl. She said it’s very essential and it’s related to 3adeeqa and that would show if you are following the right path or you are crossing the red line when you “claim” that you’ll see God which as she said is considered lying on Allah and a great sin

like I said she is just another girl .. I consider it wrong to force people to beleive in what you beleive .. its plain wrong!!

Haroun, its just few issues that we are different .. but people made them a big deal .. like what kaza said .. its '3aib at the end .. we wouldnt know whats the right answer until day of judgment come.

[Haroundb]

Haroun, its just few issues that we are different .. but people made them a big deal .. like what kaza said .. its '3aib at the end .. we wouldnt know whats the right answer until day of judgment come.
I agree with you...

[IceTea]

==================
القران:
==================
قال تعالى ﴿وجوه يومئذ ناضرة[22] إلى ربها ناظرة[23] ووجوه يومئذ باسرة[24] تظن أن يفعل بها فاقرة[25]﴾ ( سورة القيامة الآية: 22).

[22] Some faces, that Day, will beam (in brightness and beauty);

[23] Looking towards their Lord;

[24] And some faces, that Day, will be sad and dismal

[25] In the thought that some backbreaking calamity was about to be inflicted on them;


==================
الحديث:
==================

وهو حَدِيثُ جَرِيرِ بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ قَالَ : كُنَّا جُلُوسًا عِنْدَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ إِذْ نَظَرَ إِلَى الْقَمَرِ لَيْلَةَ الْبَدْرِ فَقَالَ أَمَا إِنَّكُمْ سَتَرَوْنَ رَبَّكُمْ كَمَا تَرَوْنَ هَذَا الْقَمَرَ لَا تُضَامُّونَ فِي رُؤْيَتِهِ فَإِنِ اسْتَطَعْتُمْ أَنْ لَا تُغْلَبُوا عَلَى صَلَاةٍ قَبْلَ طُلُوعِ الشَّمْسِ وَقَبْلَ غُرُوبِهَا يَعْنِي الْعَصْرَ وَالْفَجْرَ فَافْعَلُوا ثُمَّ قَرَأَ جَرِيرٌ ( وَسَبِّحْ بِحَمْدِ رَبِّكَ قَبْلَ طُلُوعِ الشَّمْسِ وَقَبْلَ غُرُوبِهَا ) * " . رواه البخاري (554 ، 573، 743، 4851) ومسلم (633، 1002) وأحمد (18394) والترمذي (2477 ) وأبو داود (4104) وابن ماجة (173).

Jareer said, "We were with the Prophet and he looked at the moon--full-moon--and said, 'Certainly you will see your Lord as you see this moon and you will have no trouble in seeing Him. So if you can avoid missing (through sleep or business, etc.) a prayer before the sun-rise (Fajr) and a prayer before sunset ('Asr), you must do so.' He then recited Allah's Statement: :-------------------------------------------------------------:

.

The verse which you have mentioned means that people will be waiting for the "thawab". The word "ناضره" means waiting or "انتضار".

يقابل هذه الآية قوله تعالى
وجوه يومئذ باسرة تظن أن يفعل بها فاقرة

فلو كان النظر في الاية بمعنى الرؤية لقيل في مقابلها – ووجوه يومئذ باسرة عن رؤية ربها قاصرة- أو بما يفيد نحو هذا الكلام


What do you say about the word "tan'9roon" in below verse:

و أنتم حينئذ تنظرون . ونحن أقرب إليه منكم ولكن لا تبصرون