View Full Version : throwing them off a cliff??
Kazablanka
20-09-04, 10:29 AM
I was reading something that this man who's a homosexual wrote about the treatment of gays. He was talking about the punishments and how Islam treats gay people. Is it true that a traditional Islamic punishment for those who are homosexual is either death by having a wall collapse on top of them or throwing them off a cliff? Is this true? and is there any support from the Quran about this??
Arabian Princess
20-09-04, 10:39 AM
Never heard of such a punishment!!
What I know, that commiting a homosexual act (ya3ni actually having sex with a guy) would be treated like any act of sexual acts outside the marraige boundries. 100 lashes for non married, stnoing to death if they are married.
Allahu allam
Kaza,
The Qur'An mentions the "sin" of Lot ("who lay with man as if with woman"). He and his people were punished, as they all committed this act. It's strangely unspecific about the women, not describing their sin although they were punished too. Maybe they were convicted as "accessories to the sin of Lot", and lesbianism is no biggie. Or maybe you should take it as read that "lay with man as if with woman" includes "woman lay with woman and discover the limitations of man".
The punishment of throwing "Loutis" off the top of mountains as Mr Tea likes to put it, is as much a matter of subjective jurisprudence as anything else "reported" and "interpreted" which is not directly from the words of the Holy Book - which I mostly find quite unambigious.
I'm sure one of the bigots will come up with a supporting hadeeth in due course, they have before. But I'd take it with a pinch of salt (oops...don't say "salt" in front of Lot...he gets ever so cross - for a faggot he was really fond of his wife).
Arabian Princess
20-09-04, 11:00 AM
Mimosa, the wife of Prophet loot used to commit this sin. WHich means, Lesbensim was included in Qawm loot and mentoned in the Quran!!!
She wasn't equipped to commit the sin of "lying with man as if with woman", and her sin is not described. Maybe complicity was enough. I'm only saying maybe - it could be your way too, but it's not mentioned, that's all.
Haroundb
20-09-04, 11:16 AM
Detailed explanation in the following links:
http://www.islamonline.net/completesearch/english/CounsellorSearchAck.asp (http://www.islamonline.net/completesearch/english/CounsellorSearchAck.asp)
You can also search here:
http://www.islamonline.net/completesearch/english/CounsellorSearch.asp?hID=0 (http://www.islamonline.net/completesearch/english/CounsellorSearch.asp?hID=0)
I don't want to visit some other site Haroun; could be put together by any bunch of looney-toons. How about expressing an educated opinion, or quoting from Saheeh Bukhari wa Muslim etc etc?
Haroundb
20-09-04, 12:47 PM
I don't want to visit some other site Haroun; could be put together by any bunch of looney-toons. How about expressing an educated opinion, or quoting from Saheeh Bukhari wa Muslim etc etc?
Ok, you are right
I'll check it out for you...!
:duck:
CrazyReD
20-09-04, 07:15 PM
I don't think the quran mentions a specific punishment for that, it says that the throne is shacked everytime that happens
As far as I know al shafie's go by throwing them off from the highest spot in town then following that with stones to imitate God's wrath and punishment.
As for the wife of prophet Lot : she never commits any sin other than telling her own people about the arrival of the good looking men.
Haroundb
20-09-04, 08:26 PM
No punishment for this in Quran (I think). Nothing that I found in "Saheeh Al Bukhari". I think they used what older muslims did back in the days of Prophet Mohammd (PBUH), or may be in the days of Sahaba, and just this what they have done.
Pineapple Thief
20-09-04, 09:16 PM
I thought there was no 'death sentence' for homosexuality. I could be mistaken about the subject matter, but I thought the punishment for sodomy was 100 lashes?
Speaking about homosexuality, what do you think the deal with it is? Is it genetically inherited, or is it a result or conditioning? Its a fact that theres a higher number of homosexuals in 'restricted' societies; surely this points to upbringing, or environment, as a key factor? Somehow I think that if it was genetic' or 'inherited' Islam would be more understanding. Or, there would be something more to it. Im curious.
Haroundb
20-09-04, 11:32 PM
I thought there was no 'death sentence' for homosexuality. I could be mistaken...
It is death, for sure, all the sources agree on this but they don't agree on the way it has to be done.
Pineapple Thief
21-09-04, 12:11 AM
My mistake then.
Kaza,
The Qur'An mentions the "sin" of Lot ("who lay with man as if with woman"). He and his people were punished, as they all committed this act.
Just to make a correction there, HE was not punished for his people’s mistakes. He was out of the city when they received the punishment from Allah.
And as I explained to you mimosa before reading this thread yesterday, Loot’s wife was a lesbian so it’s not ONLY talking about gays (Men to men).
CrazyReD
21-09-04, 09:01 AM
It is death, for sure, all the sources agree on this but they don't agree on the way it has to be done.
Which sources?
"All the sources agree" but it's not in the Qur'An or the Sunna. So why not just live and let live?
CrazyReD
21-09-04, 09:21 AM
lol cause he said above "No punishment for this in Quran (I think). Nothing that I found in "Saheeh Al Bukhari". I think they used what older muslims did back in the days of Prophet Mohammd (PBUH), or may be in the days of Sahaba, and just this what they have done."
and then he said the sources all agreed so i was confused don't mean to make it worse
sorry I'll let it live forgive and forget ;)
amo_l_oman
21-09-04, 01:53 PM
Was reading about a lebanese homosexual stripper,still alive
Pineapple Thief
21-09-04, 02:11 PM
Thats because lebanon isnt a 'muslim' country, where religion and law are interwined in such an intricate manner. there are some 'religious' protections, if you will, but not in such a way that would prohibit it.
amo_l_oman
21-09-04, 02:15 PM
ah k thanks
Kazablanka
21-09-04, 04:55 PM
Thats because lebanon isnt a 'muslim' country, where religion and law are interwined in such an intricate manner. there are some 'religious' protections, if you will, but not in such a way that would prohibit it.
I dont think any muslim country (other than saudia) actually go by the hadeeth.
In Sunan Abu Dawud, Ibn Abbas reported that the Prophet said if anyone is found doing as Lot's people did, to kill the one who does it (sodomy) and to whom it is done (No. 4447).
Haroundb
21-09-04, 05:18 PM
lol cause he said above "No punishment for this in Quran (I think). Nothing that I found in "Saheeh Al Bukhari". I think they used what older muslims did back in the days of Prophet Mohammd (PBUH), or may be in the days of Sahaba, and just this what they have done."
and then he said the sources all agreed so i was confused don't mean to make it worse
sorry I'll let it live forgive and forget ;)
-No punishment in Quran, (Normal), not every thing in Quran.
-No Punishment in Hadeeth, “Saheeh Al-Bukhari”,(Normal), not every thing in Hadeeth.
-There is punishment in what have come out of Sahabah, (Followers of Prophet Mohammed PBUH).And this is the third source of our Islamic resources, because Sahabah were closer to Prophet than us, so they have a better idea on how prophet whould have acted.
Some of the Sahabah did say that they heard Prophet Mohammed (PBUH), said something about it, and others say that they didn’t hear that, so it is not mentioned in “Saheeh Al-Bukhari”, this is why I said “There is no Hadeeth”, True there are some Hadeeth in other books of Sunnah, but as I have said we take “Saheeh Al-Bukhari” as the most reliable source of Hadeeth.
Back to the topic…Sahabah all have agreed that he should be killed, but the exact way is no specified . So every one probably decided how it should be done in order to help prevent this horrible sin from happening again. So some say that Prophet Mohammed (PBUH), said throw them from over a cliff, and this what they done, others say that he just said to stone them to death, and this what they have done…etc.
And as far as we have reached this point, I advice who ever wants to know, to go back to someone who is specialist and ask him about the recourses.
(Allah know more than any one)
If you throw them over a cliff and they survived ...
Would they be allowed to live ...?
Or would you have to toss them again and again until they died?
Haroundb
21-09-04, 06:13 PM
If you throw them over a cliff and they survived ...
Would they be allowed to live ...?
Or would you have to toss them again and again until they died?
Yes. (Brutal…right?), actually we hate gays soooooooo much! :mad:
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