Vasectomy & Religion! [Archive]

monotheism

11-09-04, 05:23 PM

The Torah is adamantly pro-the Creator's infinitely precious gift of life.

What a slap in the face to G-d, to reject His gift like that, and irreversibly! Instead of promoting life, couples and "doctors" are collaborating to frustrate its possibility! It's sickening.

Furthermore, I don't think couples should use any method of contraception: http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23935

jack

11-09-04, 05:29 PM

monotheism

11-09-04, 05:36 PM

but why?? :( :( do you think you will have difficulty being a good father?

jack

11-09-04, 05:41 PM

do you think you'd be such a terrible father? :(I am a father ... and the answer to your question is ... NO!

I'm also 54 years old and do not want that responsibilty again.

btw: good try on the negative religious guilt trip approach :rolleyes:

monotheism

11-09-04, 05:47 PM

well, if you think that you can be a good father, then why not give the priceless gift of life, or at least try your best?

jack

11-09-04, 06:02 PM

well, if you think that you can be a good father, then why not give the priceless gift of life, or at least try your best?I have ... as you already know. ;)

I have also helped raise several step children in my life to the best of my ability. ;)

And the gift of life is not priceless my friend :rolleyes:

monotheism

11-09-04, 07:57 PM

it's wonderful that you've already been a father!
and raising stepchildren is also a tremendous privilege

but if good is good, isn't better even better?

why do you say that "the gift of life is not priceless"? how much is it worth to you, then? A hundred thousand dollars? More? Less?
and why is that comment accompanied by an eyeroll?

please elaborate further--your comments lack explanation

jack

11-09-04, 08:20 PM

The bigger question is why you refuse to allow myself and others to live our lives as we choose?

mono=one

theisum=belief in the existence of a god or gods

I thank you for your concern, but please move on to bigger fish.

monotheism

11-09-04, 08:36 PM

I don't think that's a bigger question, because it's not so
you're free to make whatever choice you wish, I haven't taken your free choice away from you

I simply responded to The HITMAN's question

you then volunteered personal info., which I understood meant that you are open to discussing the issue further

this forum is for discussing issues, including moral ones such as this, intelligently

I feel I have responded intelligently to your posts; if you don't wish to answer my questions, that's also a choice you're free to make, and I wish you the best

amo_l_oman

11-09-04, 08:50 PM

Mono, being a daughter and not a mother i can assure you is not priceless, and the term price does not refer to money necessarily...

monotheism

11-09-04, 08:54 PM

so you don't consider your life priceless? :( And parents need not consider their children's lives priceless?

jack

11-09-04, 09:02 PM

so you don't consider your life priceless? :( And parents need not consider their children's lives priceless?Sure ...

And there is also a price to pay to raise a child.

Is your stand that there is "no senario" that a vasectomy is a valid option?

Enigma

11-09-04, 09:09 PM

Mono some people don't want to keep having kids their whole life, women can only take so much you know :os Leave the rest for the rabbits.

amo_l_oman

11-09-04, 09:27 PM

so you don't consider your life priceless? :( And parents need not consider their children's lives priceless?
Everything has a price to be paid in this life: sometimes we can chose to do someother time no.
I live my own life according to some rules and principles but sometimes circumstances don't allow and then i chose the solution i consider better for me and others involved: can work or not, i'll pay the price.

monotheism

11-09-04, 09:31 PM

Sure ...

And there is also a price to pay to raise a child.

Is your stand that there is "no scenario" that a vasectomy is a valid option?

barring extreme circumstances, like if the father knows he has some rare condition that will severely disable his child, perhaps

but even then, perhaps a cure will be discovered? you never know. So no, I don't see a scenario where irreversibly sterilising oneself is valid

if you want, could you share with us what you have in mind?

Mono some people don't want to keep having kids their whole life, women can only take so much you know :os Leave the rest for the rabbits.

the way you talk, it doesn't sound as if you feel that creating new life is a sacred, priceless thing, but a burden and a mere natural, animalistic practice; however, I maintain that if something is truly precious, people are ready and willing to make sacrifices for it

if I'd won the lottery 10 times, I'd still want to win it again!

and anyway, why do something irreversible? why not give oneself the chance to change one's mind in the future?

HITMAN

11-09-04, 09:33 PM

Miss Enigma, can u plz enlighten me more?

Monotheism, i appreciate ur effort, but im sorry to say that ur just trying to impose ur personal beliefs and life style on others! i dont understand why it is forbidden when it has so many benefits as well, lets see things from a three dimensional view!

monotheism

11-09-04, 09:47 PM

"Imposing"?! I'm merely expressing my opinion, and especially as I was asked by you!!

Please elaborate on these alleged benefits, and how they, in your view, outweigh the loss I've described.

One "benefit" that I can imagine in corrupt modern secular culture is that if one's wife never gets pregnant, she can never lose her beauty. I hope that's not what you meant.

jack

11-09-04, 09:57 PM

Please elaborate on these alleged behefits, and how they, in your view, outweigh the loss I've described.Here in lies the hole in your theory ... there is no loss ... when there was no life to begin with.

"Imposing"?! yes ... you gave your opinion and now you are imposing.

One "benefit" that I can imagine in corrupt modern secular culture And here is the imposing part. You just need to read between the lines ;)

monotheism

11-09-04, 10:08 PM

jack: In post #17 I responded to your points in your last post; it looks like you don't care to respond. Oh well.

If taking a stand on moral issues is "imposing," so be it. Kind of funny that I'm casted that way, considering that other people are also expressing their opinion. In any case, as I said, I'm interested in intelligent conversation with those who are interested in an open discussion.

Scorpio27

11-09-04, 10:15 PM

I'd bet the farm that I'm the only person here that has had a vasectomy.

Why did I do it? I did it because "I" chose to take personal responsibilty to not father another child.

My decision had nothing to do with religion. It had to do with responsibity.

I appreciate you. We better not go for lotz of children. Better look at the distressed kids and give a hand to help them grow. The world is overpopulated specially the poor countries. Better give the poor citizens of the globe to the prosperous counties to balance the population.

Scorpio27

11-09-04, 10:23 PM

Family Planning in Islam
by Alyssa
Birth control is permissible according to Islam, which recognizes that the sexual act is more than just a means of procreation.

During the time of the Prophet Muhammad (SAW), the most commonly practiced method of birth control was 'azl or the withdrawal method. According to the ulama (scholars), withdrawal is permissible but generally thought to be makruh (reprehensible), since it deprives the woman of her right to be able to have sexual satisfaction and to bear children if she so desires, so therefore the conclusion reached by most scholars is that withdrawal should not be practiced unless the woman agrees to it.

So believe on mutual concent permanent familly planning is allowed.

Ref:

http://www.unh.edu/msa/familyp.htm

Blessed

12-09-04, 02:49 AM

Allowed but not encouraged. An action being Makruh (reprehensible) means you don't get punished for doing it but you do get rewarded for abstaining from it. Islam is basically saying that it is better not to follow the "withdrawl method" you just mentioned.

mimosa

19-09-04, 01:27 PM

I am a fertile 32 year old man from a coutry with a shrinking poppulation. Sure, I've already got three kids, but who can tell the future? Anything could happen, and it would be silly to sterilise myself, probably permanently, when there are other methods of birth control.

I am also a total coward, and will not be stabbed in the genitals by anyone thank you.

Pineapple Thief

19-09-04, 02:55 PM

Its probably makooh, but i dont think its haram. Thats a personal point of view, not based on any hadeeths or anything.

monotheism

19-09-04, 03:50 PM

I appreciate you. We better not go for lotz of children. Better look at the distressed kids and give a hand to help them grow. The world is overpopulated specially the poor countries. Better give the poor citizens of the globe to the prosperous counties to balance the population.

You have not proven the assertion that "the world is overpopulated"; I submit that there are more than enough resources to feed and shelter all of mankind, if they were properly distributed.

People in wealthy countries are financially able to raise large families. If they don't have children, that money will not go to third world country charities; it will go to buying larger houses, more cars and swimming pools. And people who use contraception don't seriously think that they're doing a favour to inhabitants of third world countries.

Pineapple Thief

19-09-04, 06:35 PM

Mono is right in one regard at least: the world is not overpopulated: not yet anyway. There is enough food and resources to feed everyone. Hell, India has a food surplus, and look at it! The 'problem' is that it costs money to transport it, and who the hell cares about 'thy neighbor' these days?

monotheism

20-09-04, 07:42 AM

Thanks! :)

Kara

20-09-04, 06:46 PM

i would like to know what different religions say about this surgery!

its for male sterilization!

Also, wouldn't this result in changing and distorting the body, a body that God created?

monotheism

05-10-04, 08:05 AM

mono=one

theisum=belief in the existence of a god or gods

I thank you for your concern, but please move on to bigger fish.

Well, thankyou for thanking me. However, the Creator Whose existence I seek to promote wants us to promote life, and therefore I do consider this "big fish"; furthermore, life is precious precisely because He said so, explaining that man is created in His image.

Here in lies the hole in your theory ... there is no loss ... when there was no life to begin with.

I disagree. If the Creator granted man the potential to create life with the intention that man use it, then abstaining from exercising that potential is indeed a tremendous loss, albeit not as tragic as terminating an existing life by sucking an embryo's brains out.

Scorpio27

05-10-04, 09:59 PM

I'd bet the farm that I'm the only person here that has had a vasectomy.

Why did I do it? I did it because "I" chose to take personal responsibilty to not father another child.

My decision had nothing to do with religion. It had to do with responsibity.

I agree and appreciate. Thanks for the loud bold and solid answer.
Science and technology, which helps the mankind, must be appreciated.

:yes: