Is there anything I can do that Allah cannot ?

[Wanderer]

I wonder, is there anything man can do that Allah cannot ?

[NaBHaN]

I find this very very very insulting..and i would like to remind u that YOU are THIS close to being banned forever. so if u really enjoy posting in this forum I would advise u to change ur attitude towards islam and muslims and Allah S.W.T.

Allah is the creator of everything.. there is NOTHING that he cant do.

:)

[jack]

Originally posted by Wanderer
I wonder, is there anything man can do that Allah cannot ? Yes he can ban you from the sabla ... :scary:

[amo_l_oman]

Nabs he made a question, a question which many ask themselves during lifetime: is part of our journey, questioning ourselves about God, man, earth, afterlife.
The insult, if there will be any, must be seen during the discussion, again if there will be any.

[NaBHaN]

Who is dumb enough to ask such a question about god? and since I KNOW wanderer is NOT dumb.. i am sure he know that this will annoy many members on board. why did he refer to 'allah' and not GOD in general?

he knows what he's doing and I dont like it one bit.

[MoonChild]

Just sounds like a riddle to me.

Lie?

Die?

Nabs, do you agree or disagree?

[Scarlet]

Originally posted by NaBHaN

Allah is the creator of everything.. there is NOTHING that he cant do.

:)

It is very very insulting to us. Are you being sarcastic? God is the creater, and we are only simple human beings. He can do anything and everything!

NaBHaN, this is nothing. Go to the "God Existance" thread, and you'll be shocked to see the replies that thread got.:no:

[Enigma]

Wanderer if this is you trying to convince us 'poor, lost muslims' and guide us to the right path then be a dear and just say it so I can lock the thread :inno:

--

I'd like to know what YOU think you can do that's equal to what god has created? Because honestly speaking, for me to actually sit and list things for you.. is so... childish.

Nabhan hit the spot, why say Allah not God? Why start this in Islamic Sabla and not the main one?

If you have any personal grudges with Islam please take them out of here. Its not gonna work, haven't you gotten it by now?

[Scarlet]

Originally posted by Enigma
I'd like to know what YOU think you can do that's equal to what god has created?

Bingo!:rolleyes:

[Orion]

Originally posted by Wanderer
I wonder, is there anything man can do that Allah cannot ?

Hey Bud ...

Instead of attacking you ... I'll say God can do no wrong (can I hear an Amen?)

You on the other hand ... are fallible my friend.

;)

[Her XLNC]

Originally posted by Pretender
Hey Bud ...

Instead of attacking you ... I'll say God can do no wrong (can I hear an Amen?)

You on the other hand ... are fallible my friend.

;)


AMEN 2 that my good friend :angel:

[Nocia9600]

Originally posted by Wanderer
I wonder, is there anything man can do that Allah cannot ?
What a STUPID question

1st man is creation of Allah

1. Men can be many
2. Man can die,
3. Man can have a son

Allah SWT is the only one never dies and has no son.:wave: :wave:

Does that answer your Question:duck:

[amo_l_oman]

Originally posted by MoonChild
Just sounds like a riddle to me.

Lie?

Die?

lol if the starting post had been put in a more complete context maybe panic would have been avoided :p
Yes you right, when it comes to actions like lie, that is our weakness and then we go back to the Shaytan thread, and die well for us is wriitten: we cannot anticipate nor delay, just living this bridge which will bring us to our Creator at our best in His name. But can we consider death an action?
A riddle you say: to me is the great mystery of life which comes every now and then to knock at my heart and mind doors.

[IceTea]

I find this thread is insulting because how can a human being compare between the capabilities of Allah to a human being who is ONE of Allah creatures!.

[Cerulean]

I wonder, is there anything man can do that Allah cannot ?

Um.. deny Gods existence. :scratch:

[Homeless]

Originally posted by NaBHaN
Who is dumb enough to ask such a question about god? and since I KNOW wanderer is NOT dumb.. i am sure he know that this will annoy many members on board. why did he refer to 'allah' and not GOD in general?

he knows what he's doing and I dont like it one bit.





Nabs everyone questions themselves from time to time and Allah gave us the right to and it all depends on how strong our faith is .. It wasnt not insulting to ask but if u found it insulting then I believe its ur own personal opinion and thought ..

[Homeless]

I dont think its things allah cant do but its things allah doesnt do that a human does .. like give birth ... allah doesnt have anyone to look up 2 but we look up to allah as humans..

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by Cerulean
Um.. deny Gods existence. :scratch:

Wow ! Good one.

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by NaBHaN

there is NOTHING that he cant do.

Can he give his life, sacrifice his very existance, out of devotion to someone he loves or some principle he holds dear ?




Originally posted by NaBHaN
why did he refer to 'allah' and not GOD in general?

You mean gods in general. Differend gods have different attributes. Some people have gods that die, so I chose a god whose believers don't assign that attribute to their god. In this case, Muslims.



Originally posted by NaBHaN

he knows what he's doing and I dont like it one bit.

No, you don't. So sorry.



Originally posted by NaBHaN


YOU are THIS close to being banned forever...

Ah, the old reliance on threats to keep people from asking questions ! How ... predictable.

Good thing I didn't suggest that the world was a sphere that orbited the Sun.

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by Enigma
Wanderer if this is you trying to convince us 'poor, lost muslims' and guide us to the right path then be a dear and just say it so I can lock the thread :inno:

I don't see your post answering the question or really addressing it.


In my opinion "poor, lost" preceeding any religion is redundant - not just yours.


Now, have you anything to add or are you too wrapped up in being defensive ?


Honestly, I've seen people have more confidence in the structual stability of their tissue covered kites than some of you have in your 1,400 year old religion.

[DeSerTDesTroYeR]

There is a clear line and distinction between Allah and human, the two are simply uncompare-able.

--------

Wanderer: What do you think? Maybe if you share with us your opinion. We can reach to a ground where we can actually discuss.

[Scarlet]

Originally posted by Wanderer
Can he give his life, sacrifice his very existance, out of devotion to someone he loves or some principle he holds dear ?


That's something a human does. You can't compare God witha a human. If you can compare a God with a human, then why is he a God??

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by IceTea
I find this thread is insulting because how can a human being compare between the capabilities of Allah to a human being who is ONE of Allah creatures!.


Good, you're insulted. Big deal, you aren't that important that any thing your perceive as an insult must be dealt with with upmost urgency.



Can Allah cry ?

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by Scarlet
That's something a human does.

If there is something that you can say is distinctly human, then that would fall under the category of someting we can do that your god cannot - others' gods might be able to take human form, kill each other, etc.

That's my point.



I see DD hopes to avoid the whole issue by just saying that the 2 are incomparable. That's because comparing then leads to difficult theological questions and disturbing implications.

DD, perhaps, had best spend his time unraveling the mysteries of Pop Tart boxes.

[DeSerTDesTroYeR]

Originally posted by Wanderer
If there is something that you can say is distinctly human, then that would fall under the category of someting we can do that your god cannot - others' gods might be able to take human form, kill each other, etc.

That's my point.

I see DD hopes to avoid the whole issue by just saying that the 2 are incomparable. That's because comparing then leads to difficult theological questions and disturbing implications.

DD, perhaps, had best spend his time unraveling the mysteries of Pop Tart boxes.

I was avoiding nothing ;) I gave the opinion I have on mind as your asking here based on what you have on mind.

And thats why I asked you to clearify more of what you think about it as you just did above and obviously, now that can bring more opinions in the picture, but by a mere question standing alone you dont have much of ground there.

If you want to divert the thread from its topic into what everyone could be doing ... for sure you have the members lounge for that. And those pop tart boxes which I have no clue about, am sure your enjoying them as you seem to have lots of spare time to enjoy.

Anyway, now back to what you said above here...

So now your mentioning other Gods? Well, I just thought you meant Allah??? And as you clearily mentioned the Gods you mentioned are Other then Allah which we believe in as muslims.

Now the case is.. is Allah compare-able to those Gods? Well from the first impression everyone could say yes. But now if those Gods are fundamentally different, then that's when we know clearily that Allah and those Gods are evidently differ.

Therefore, what you applied to them above doesnt apply in the case here. So back again to the uncompare-able point of view :rolleyes:

[IceTea]

Originally posted by Wanderer



Can Allah cry ?

This is your problem you compare Allah to a human being.

(He is) the Creator of the heavens and the earth: He has made for you pairs from among yourselves, and pairs among cattle: by this means does He multiply you: there is nothing whatever like unto Him, and He is the One that hears and sees (all things).

[MoonChild]

DD, think about this... the christians believe that God had a son, that the son WAS god, and that the son "died".

so belief in a god that cannot have a son and cannot die (as Nocia says above) is distinctly muslim, thus the name Allah is appropriate :)

I think it's pretty interesting actually - if there is One God, who is the same God of the Jews, Christians, and Muslims (and all other monotheistic religions) - there seems to be a deeply inherent conflict in the ideas these religions have of WHO THEIR GOD IS and what He can (or will) do.

Is it a different God, or the same God but one or all are wrong about God's characteristics and abilities?

And perhaps those who are insulted by the thread are simply having a culture clash, wherein muslims are brought up not to question the Nature of Allah - but in the various Christian communities I've been involved with in childhood and adulthood, the Nature of God is a relatively common matter of discussion, and have heard the specific question as a riddle posed to Christian students to highlight the difference between the nature of God and Man.

Some more answers - God cannot DOUBT, God cannot LOSE FAITH (since he KNOWS ALL). God cannot be ****ed or tempted by Satan. I'd even say that God can't get sick or fall prey to addictions or those "fleshly" maladies - being extracorporeal. God cannot take risks (being omniscient).

So there are lots of negative "human" things that God can't do by His nature - but on the flip side, God also can't be HEROIC, since heroism involves overcoming fear, making sacrifices without knowing the outcome, and being willing to die for a cause.

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by DeSerTDesTroYeR
I was avoiding nothing ;)

So now your mentioning other Gods? Well, I just thought you meant Allah???


Sure you are.

I mention that there are other gods with different attributes to explain why I chose Allah in this example. Within the grouping of gods, you can find all human attributes. But if I select certain gods you will find that they do not have certain attributes that allow them to act, feel, live/die like humans.


One of my answers to the question raised by this thread is that a man can make a greater sacrific than your god. A man can willingly die for a chosen reason - love, revenge, duty. Allah cannot.

Doesn't the standard Muslim suicide bomber take a greater risk and sacrifice more for Islam than Allah does ? The suicide bomber has promises of reward based on Faith alone, yet they risk it all. Allah cannot take that risk. Or can he ?

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by MoonChild

- but on the flip side, God also can't be HEROIC, since heroism involves overcoming fear, making sacrifices without knowing the outcome, and being willing to die for a cause.


Exactly.





Yes, that's why I married her.

[DeSerTDesTroYeR]

Originally posted by MoonChild
DD, think about this... the christians believe that God had a son, that the son WAS god, and that the son "died".

so belief in a god that cannot have a son and cannot die (as Nocia says above) is distinctly muslim, thus the name Allah is appropriate :)

I think it's pretty interesting actually - if there is One God, who is the same God of the Jews, Christians, and Muslims (and all other monotheistic religions) - there seems to be a deeply inherent conflict in the ideas these religions have of WHO THEIR GOD IS and what He can (or will) do.

Is it a different God, or the same God but one or all are wrong about God's characteristics and abilities?


Good points you got there. :app: now this is becoming more of a discussion.


Its more like there is only One... but with time/meth/culture/history all got its on version of how they could describe God.

[DeSerTDesTroYeR]

Originally posted by Wanderer
Sure you are.

I mention that there are other gods with different attributes to explain why I chose Allah in this example. Within the grouping of gods, you can find all human attributes. But if I select certain gods you will find that they do not have certain attributes that allow them to act, feel, live/die like humans.


One of my answers to the question raised by this thread is that a man can make a greater sacrific than your god. A man can willingly die for a chosen reason - love, revenge, duty. Allah cannot.

Doesn't the standard Muslim suicide bomber take a greater risk and sacrifice more for Islam than Allah does ? The suicide bomber has promises of reward based on Faith alone, yet they risk it all. Allah cannot take that risk. Or can he ?

Glad your sure.

Now the main point here as been trying to convey is that there is no comparision. Why? Simple, cause all the above examples you mentioned makes it clear.

Its not about can or cant. Its about what kind of attributes belong to whom. Obviously all those human attributes you mentioned are Human. Therefore, they arent Allah oriented. As there would be a much superior base of it.

You can talk all day about what humans can do and what they cant, why? cause you are one of them and you know other humans. But now can we talk all day about Allah? All that we know (muslims wise) is what came in the Quran and been said from the Prophet, thats muslim wise. In other cases it would be what been told and known through time. But have any actually meet Allah to be able to say what the attributes there are we can talk about. Nope. So our only source is what we know from the books or been told, not human experience.

Taking risk? suicide bomber? Now thats a risk which is avaliable for such person. But again Allah ways of working things isnt the same as what humans do things.

We have hands and legs ...does Allah? Its all back to a fundamental point again and again. There is no comparision to say. Who can and who cant.

[Enigma]

Originally posted by Wanderer

Honestly, I've seen people have more confidence in the structual stability of their tissue covered kites than some of you have in your 1,400 year old religion.

Wanderer, I'm one of the most confident muslims you'll ever meet. By now, I thought you would have realised that.

The reason, which I'm sure you know, that I am resentful toward threads/posts of yours like this is what you posted in this thread:

http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22812&highlight=wanderer

Need I say more? ;)

[Scorpio27]

Yes, that is:


"Injustice"


:bang:

[shamsery]

Originally posted by Wanderer
I wonder, is there anything man can do that Allah cannot ?

This is not a question out of inquisitiveness.


Originally posted by jack
Yes he can ban you from the sabla ... :scary:


What is the hidden line Mr.Jack?


Rule#16: Religion: The Sabla will not tolerate any disrespect towards Islam and any other religions, nor will it allow any insult towards God or his prophets. The Administration and the moderators have the right to edit or remove any disrespectful post. On the first attempt, a member will get a warning, but if persistent, he or she will get a ban.

Rule is there. Admin decision is her.


Originally posted by NaBHaN
I find this very very very insulting..

Looking for the next course of action.

[IceTea]

Originally posted by shamsery



Looking for the next course of action.

Me 2 :scratch:

[X-press]

Wandy's question is simply sarcastic and I am afraid to say that, though he is somehow a smart man, he believes that we are stupid and will not read him between his lines.

Wandy is for sure not in search of any truth (at least not our truth) and probably cares less whether Our Creator is superior or not. I might be wrong but I think it is another thread to simply make fun of our (muslim) answers and of course of The One who created him.

[amo_l_oman]

But the discussion has gone on an intelligent and interesting track, what's wrong with it?

[X-press]

Originally posted by Wanderer
Honestly, I've seen people have more confidence in the structual stability of their tissue covered kites than some of you have in your 1,400 year old religion.

For that reason, I am still wandering how come you rather stay among us, than among those who have more confidence in their kites.

You have the right to believe that we are ignorant or that we lack of confidence. You have the right to believe that man can do what God can't. You have the right to believe in many man-made gods instead of one....but I can reassure you that our believes will never change and you will certainly never be the one to change this fact, even if you stay 10 years a member in this sabla.

Thanks.

[IceTea]

Originally posted by amo_l_oman
But the discussion has gone on an intelligent and interesting track, what's wrong with it?

A thread which statred with a disrespect to muslims shouldn't continue.

[amo_l_oman]

Originally posted by IceTea
A thread which statred with a disrespect to muslims shouldn't continue.

As i said in my first reply you cannot really say what he meant cause he didn't elaborate nor create a context but after, thanks to intelligent members the debate started and went on reasonably.

[NaBHaN]

I like what DD said in his last post about wanderer trying to apply human traits and attributes on allah. which is absolutely rediculous in my opinion.

----

Ice tea , what action? if i wanted to take action i would have locked this thread from the start but i want to see where he's going with this..and i dont believe we should always run away by 'taking action' unless it gets out of hand. we are smart and confident enough to prove , whomever mocks our religion , wrong. SO , if u dont really have much to add here except ask for action ( which could be done via p.m ) then please dont post.

[Raed]

Since you have asked about Allah, then to Quote Allah is the best I can think of
To answer your question:

Preface:

مَا قَدَرُوا اللَّهَ حَقَّ قَدْرِهِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَقَوِيٌّ عَزِيزٌ (74)

No just estimate have they made of Allah. for Allah is He Who is strong and able to Carry out His Will.
=========

Allah has assigned traits to his creations that does not apply to him among those are:


قُلْ هُوَ اللَّهُ أَحَدٌ (1) اللَّهُ الصَّمَدُ (2) لَمْ يَلِدْ وَلَمْ يُولَدْ (3) وَلَمْ يَكُن لَّهُ كُفُواً أَحَدٌ (4)

Ayah 1 Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Ayah 2 Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; Ayah 3 He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; Ayah 4 And there is none like unto Him.


وَأَنَّهُ تَعَالَى جَدُّ رَبِّنَا مَا اتَّخَذَ صَاحِبَةً وَلَا وَلَداً (3)

And Exalted is the Majesty of our Lord: He has taken neither a wife nor a son.


· وَقَالُوا اتَّخَذَ الرَّحْمَنُ وَلَداً (88) لَقَدْ جِئْتُمْ شَيْئاً إِدّاً (89) تَكَادُ السَّمَاوَاتُ يَتَفَطَّرْنَ مِنْهُ وَتَنشَقُّ الْأَرْضُ وَتَخِرُّ الْجِبَالُ هَدّاً (90) أَن دَعَوْا لِلرَّحْمَنِ وَلَداً (91) وَمَا يَنبَغِي لِلرَّحْمَنِ أَن يَتَّخِذَ وَلَداً (92)


They say: "((Allah)) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" Ayah 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous! Ayah 90 At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin, Ayah 91 that they should invoke a son for ((Allah)) Most Gracious. Ayah 92 For it is not consonant with the majesty of ((Allah)) Most Gracious that He should beget a son.


· اللّهُ لاَ إِلَـهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ الْحَيُّ الْقَيُّومُ لاَ تَأْخُذُهُ سِنَةٌ وَلاَ نَوْمٌ لَّهُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الأَرْضِ مَن ذَا الَّذِي يَشْفَعُ عِنْدَهُ إِلاَّ بِإِذْنِهِ يَعْلَمُ مَا بَيْنَ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَمَا خَلْفَهُمْ وَلاَ يُحِيطُونَ بِشَيْءٍ مِّنْ عِلْمِهِ إِلاَّ بِمَا شَاء

Allah. There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth.


قُلْ أَغَيْرَ اللّهِ أَتَّخِذُ وَلِيّاً فَاطِرِ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ وَهُوَ يُطْعِمُ وَلاَ يُطْعَمُ قُلْ إِنِّيَ أُمِرْتُ أَنْ أَكُونَ أَوَّلَ مَنْ أَسْلَمَ وَلاَ تَكُونَنَّ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكَينَ (14)



Say: "Shall I take for my protector any other than Allah, the Maker of the heavens and the earth? And He it is that feedeth but is not fed." Say: "Nay! but I am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah (in Islam), and be not thou of the company of those who join gods with Allah."


· كُلُّ نَفْسٍ ذَائِقَةُ الْمَوْتِ ثُمَّ إِلَيْنَا تُرْجَعُونَ (57)

Every soul shall have a taste of death in the end to Us shall ye be brought back.

==============

All of those actions which you are capable of ( not because you are superman , simply cause he chose for you to be that way so mighty Wanderer easy on the ego side ;) ) , all of privileges that God, Yahweh, Adonai Allah bestow upon us. Through those weaknesses of ours we can only have glimpse of understanding to his glory.

At the end,

One key difference is:

لَا يُسْأَلُ عَمَّا يَفْعَلُ وَهُمْ يُسْأَلُونَ (23)

He cannot be questioned for His acts, but they will be questioned (for theirs).

[Scarlet]

Very well said Raed:app:
This part was the best, I liked what you said there
All of those actions which you are capable of ( not because you are superman , simply cause he chose for you to be that way so mighty Wanderer easy on the ego side ) , all of privileges that God, Yahweh, Adonai Allah bestow upon us. Through those weaknesses of ours we can only have glimpse of understanding to his glory.

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by X-press
Wandy's question is simply sarcastic ...


Wandy is for sure not in search of any truth (at least not our truth) and probably cares less whether Our Creator is superior or not. I might be wrong but I think it is another thread to simply make fun of our (muslim) answers and of course of The One who created him. [/B][/QUOTE]


You are clearly NOT a mind reader, X-Press, and I sometimes worry that includes even your own mind.


It is obvious that man can do things that some gods cannot - feel fear for example.

Can you be afraid? Now, can your god, Allah, be afraid?

If you can be afraid, but Allah can not, than you shall answer my post's question in the affirmative - that you can do something, experience something that your god cannot.


So quit your whining and worrying and accusations that I'm out to insult and deride you and think about the issues raised.

Honestly - when you have philosophical difficulties with the issues raised you go into your crying about Islam bashing. It's really an indicator that you are simply unprepared to think.

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by X-press
For that reason, I am still wandering how come you rather stay among us, than among those who have more confidence in their kites.

You have the right to believe that we are ignorant or that we lack of confidence. You have the right to believe that man can do what God can't. You have the right to believe in many man-made gods instead of one....but I can reassure you that our believes will never change and you will certainly never be the one to change this fact, even if you stay 10 years a member in this sabla.

Thanks.


I'm not interested in converting anyone - not even you, to anything.

I am interested in examining what people believe. Interestingly, I find that they usually have not spent much time examining what they believe.

[jack]

Honestly - when you have philosophical difficulties with the issues raised you go into your crying about Islam bashing. It's really an indicator that you are simply unprepared to think.Thinking has been removed from the equation and is moot.

You only have to comply. It does make it rather easy that way.

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by Raed

No slumber can seize Him nor sleep.


So you are saying that Allah doesn't dream as we all do ? Good point. Allah doen't dream.



Originally posted by Raed

All of those actions which you are capable of ( not because you are superman , simply cause he chose for you to be that way so mighty Wanderer easy on the ego side ;)


Never claimed to be any superman, have I ? So I wonder why you'd make such a comment ?

Well he hasn't made me magically know Arabic nor provided any meaningful evidence of his existance so careful easy on your ego side :)

[amo_l_oman]

Wandy, just a question: did you find the same attitude in other persons with other believes, regarding the above quoted from Jack?

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by amo_l_oman
Wandy, just a question: did you find the same attitude in other persons with other believes, regarding the above quoted from Jack?

Oh yes. Some here think my inquiries are only for Muslims and their beliefs, but that's an impression caused by the fact that most members here are Muslim.

I ask philosophical questions of any and all people.

I am involved in discusssions with many fundamentalist Christians - co-workers too, who hold beliefs that they don't want scrutinized.

What I've found in most cases is that people who haven't done much independant reading and thinking about their religion and beliefs usually feel threatened when asked about some aspect of their beliefs that they don't already have an answer for.

Many try to change the subject.


Frankly, I don't understand what the big deal is about discussing the nature of one's god or prophets. Yet a predictable few here get all insulted and call for banning me because I ask questions to probe how believers view and understand their god. Questions that they should not have difficulty with.

[Orion]

Originally posted by Wanderer
Oh yes. Some here think my inquiries are only for Muslims and their beliefs, but that's an impression caused by the fact that most members here are Muslim.

....................

Frankly, I don't understand what the big deal is about discussing the nature of one's god or prophets. Yet a predictable few here get all insulted and call for banning me because I ask questions to probe how believers view and understand their god. Questions that they should not have difficulty with.

:scratch:

Ahh Wandy, Wandy, Wandy - be honest with yourself - ... if you were really looking for scientific/philosophical thought on Islam, would you really make the www.englishsabla.com your first port of call for a reference or discussion on Islam?

You know the type and demographic of the majority of individuals on this bulletin board (that is of being underage or poor english skills if they have something meaningful to convey).

So are you posting for a discussion? An arguement? Or just for 'effect' ...

It is your tone of disrespect that is unacceptable to most young Muslims that brings them to the edge of all out anger.

At the end of the day, arguements about religion - in general - I find meaningless myself, because I like you, believe when there is no data to back up a premise than it is meaningless to have a 'discussion' about it regardless of one's heartfelt belief system.

You have your religion of science and logic and whatever works for you and they have their ...

It seems to me that being a reader of English Sabla for the last 3 years or so ... they are THREE kinds of non-muslim members:

1) Ones who don't care about religion or just passing interest in what others do.

2) Ones who feel to comfort themselves of their own 'belief-system' by taking pot shots at individuals who are way more under developed ... usually because of age ... to defend their faith or lack the communication skills to do it coeherently.

3) The outright bigot trying to sell himself/herself as a 'thinker'.

So when you say "I've questioned Christian Fundamentalists about their faith .." are we supposed to throw our hands up and say "well thats ok ... Wandy doesn't care for any religion equally ... so we can let him disrespect Islam!"

I have to reiterate ... I don't care both ways ... but because none of the moderators or members just nailed it completely ... I feel the need for you to understand what makes these members so angry (but not 'threatened' as you have spun it) is your total disregard for what they believe.

At the end of the day ... you think this 'lack' of discussion equates to lack of intelligence on Islamic thought ... than I can point you to a dozen websites where you can join Islamic only forums and have your discussion ...

But to chalk it up to people feeling 'threatened' ... well thats a little bit low ... and unbecoming the Wanderer I've come to enjoy to read.

A lot of these members ... and mods ... are very young adults ... but they are very proud about their faith, if you can't get your head around that ... than I don't know what else to say ...

The only question for those having trouble 'discussing' their faith with you is why you feel the need to provoke them so ...

:scratch:

[amo_l_oman]

Pretender, what is for you disrespect for Islam?

[Raed]

The longer this is, the sillier your arguments get, you simply go :


Originally posted by Wanderer
So you are saying that Allah doesn't dream as we all do ? Good point. Allah doen't dream.

In all honesty, you play the role of a spoiled brat who competes with someone out of his league and loses miserably. Then brags about the fact that they fell during the race, when the other person did not!

I blame you not, as Hollywood have soaked and saturated your way of thinking with the “we are special” theory. I hate to bring the bad news you are not special sorry, God created couple of more billions! Just because some leaders have to go around knocking on every door to get approval does not mean that God has to do it.

What is the point of heaven and hell if you woke up one day and saw God before your eyes? Gee you are so special! God couldn’t bare the thought of you not being on good terms with him and denying his existence.



Originally posted by Wanderer
so careful easy on your ego side :)

lol, that must have ticked you … !


Pretender.. I respect your state of mind

[Raed]

Originally posted by Pretender
The only question for those having trouble 'discussing' their faith you is why you feel the need to provoke them so ...

:scratch:

وَدُّواْ لَوْ تَكْفُرُونَ كَمَا كَفَرُواْ فَتَكُونُونَ سَوَاء


"They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they)"

[Pineapple Thief]

Nice one whipping everyone here into a frenzy.

Im reminded of an argument once denying the existance of God. It went something like, if God can make anything, and God can destroy anything, can he make something he cant destroy?

The answer to that one is a simple no. So theres one thing man can do that Allah cant. But it still doesnt in any way argue against the existence of any sort of God, relying isntead of the use of language, rather than logic.

[Pineapple Thief]

Originally posted by DeSerTDesTroYeR
Glad your sure.

Now the main point here as been trying to convey is that there is no comparision. Why? Simple, cause all the above examples you mentioned makes it clear.

Its not about can or cant. Its about what kind of attributes belong to whom. Obviously all those human attributes you mentioned are Human. Therefore, they arent Allah oriented. As there would be a much superior base of it.

You can talk all day about what humans can do and what they cant, why? cause you are one of them and you know other humans. But now can we talk all day about Allah? All that we know (muslims wise) is what came in the Quran and been said from the Prophet, thats muslim wise. In other cases it would be what been told and known through time. But have any actually meet Allah to be able to say what the attributes there are we can talk about. Nope. So our only source is what we know from the books or been told, not human experience.

Taking risk? suicide bomber? Now thats a risk which is avaliable for such person. But again Allah ways of working things isnt the same as what humans do things.

We have hands and legs ...does Allah? Its all back to a fundamental point again and again. There is no comparision to say. Who can and who cant.

Nice reply. And nice avatar (though I wasnt a fan of the anime).

[Orion]

Originally posted by amo_l_oman
Pretender, what is for you disrespect for Islam?

Amoooooooooooooooo to the RESCUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

Oh wait ... the question has got nothing to with the thread ...

:p

[amo_l_oman]

Is a lil useful offtopic and i think you're one of the few who use brain here so move your butt and answer.
After all it was in your reply to Wandy, cmon man!!!

[Orion]

I think its safe to say ... if I walked into Church on sunday ... and said to everyone present ...

"So what is it that Jesus did that makes him so special ... and what's this idea about one God?"

It would not win me Brownie points ... no matter how patient the group of Church goers were or how secure in their faith they are.

Of course ... I'd say it ... with a tone of subtle disdain in my voice just but unapologetic as ... a 'wandering' stranger.

;)

That is disrespect.

[MoonChild]

then again, this isn't a mosque is it?

Trust me Amo, he's had quite a bit of practice being disrespectful of the beliefs of others :rolleyes:

[Haroundb]

I would like to say that it looks like the man has another idea; he is not talking about our God, Allah. What idea does he have about him?

Allah has told us in his Quran that we should not attack other religions gods so that they don't say thing about Allah which is not suitable, offending.

What do you think??

Allah will never be offended. Allah told us to do that so "We not to be offended" by what other people in other religions say about him.

-- As an answer to his question, which should be "What are the things that I do Allah don't do?"

The answer is:
Allah Doesn't Sleep..........likes us
Allah Doesn't Eat.............like us
Allah Doesn't Forget........like us

A big list which some of these answers come from Quran.

This is a big subject, and I wanted only to note something that may help.

[amo_l_oman]

Pretender, you skipped this time :rolleyes: k, next time :6:


The answer is:
Allah Doesn't Sleep..........likes us
Allah Doesn't Eat.............like us
Allah Doesn't Forget........like us

Simple as that but before Moonie, his wife, gave an hint, all went into panic.
Is the problem with him or with us?

[Orion]

Originally posted by MoonChild
then again, this isn't a mosque is it?

Trust me Amo, he's had quite a bit of practice being disrespectful of the beliefs of others :rolleyes:

Why:

1) Post this question in the Islamic section.

2) Use the word 'Allah' (Implying Islamic or Arabic only belief in Abrahmic belief in one God)

If Wandy wanted to be fair about it ... he could easily posted in the monothetic section:

"Is there anything I can do that God cannot?"

No ... this is not a Mosque or Church ... but the majority of individuals here are of one faith ... he knows the audience.

;)

[amo_l_oman]

Originally posted by Pretender
Why:

1) Post this question in the Islamic section.

2) Use the word 'Allah' (Implying Islamic or Arabic only belief in Abrahmic belief in one God)

You answered yourself walla!!!!!!

[MoonChild]

P, read the whole thread. It was settled pretty quickly that Islam has a more restricted idea of what God can't do than Christianity does (procreation for one ;) )

[Orion]

Originally posted by MoonChild
P, read the whole thread. It was settled pretty quickly that Islam has a more restricted idea of what God can't do than Christianity does (procreation for one ;) )

I have ... but without outwardly insulting 'my people' ... they aren't used to answering things on your playing field ...

Like I said ... they aren't Islamic scholars ... most are just kids.

[Raed]

Originally posted by Pretender most are just kids. :angel:

[Raed]

Originally posted by MoonChild
P, read the whole thread. It was settled pretty quickly that Islam has a more restricted idea of what God can't do than Christianity does (procreation for one ;) )

Not if you read the bible carefully, particularly the Old Testament, while Islam states:
áÇøó ÊõÏúÑößõåõ ÇáÃóÈúÕóÇÑõ æóåõæó íõÏúÑößõ ÇáÃóÈúÕóÇÑó æóåõæó ÇááøóØöíÝõ ÇáúÎóÈöíÑõ (103)


No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision: He is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things.

And,

áóíúÓó ßóãöËúáöåö ÔóíúÁñ æóåõæó ÇáÓøóãöíÚõ ÇáÈóÕöíÑõ

There is nothing whatever like unto Him, and He is the One that hears and sees (all things).

[Enigma]

I thought I should lock this thread when it first started, but DD and Wandy seemed to have something good going on. It seems pretty evident now that most members feel insulted about the thread; therefore I'm locking it.