The Three Questions

[fatak]

THE THREE QUESTIONS

There was a young man who went overseas to study for quite a long time. When he returned, he asked his parents to find him a religious scholar or any expert who could answer his 3 questions. Finally, his parents were able to find a Muslim scholar.

Young man: Who are you? Can you answer my questions?
Scholar: I am one of Allah (SubHana Wa Ta`ala )'s slaves and insha-Allah (God willing), I will be able to answer your questions.
Young man : Are you sure? A lot of Professors and experts were not able to answer my questions.
Scholar: I will try my best, with the help of Allah (SubHana Wa Ta`ala ).
Young Man: I have 3 questions:

1. Does God exist? If so, show me His shape.
2. What is takdir (fate)?
3. If shaitan (Devil) was created from the fire, why at the end he will be thrown to hell that also created from fire. It certainly will not hurt him at all, since Shaitan (Devil) and the hell were created from fire. Did God not think of it this far?

Suddenly, the Scholar slapped the young man's face very hard.

Young Man (feeling pain): Why do you get angry at me?
Scholar: I am not angry. The slap is my answer to your three questions.
Young Man: I really don't understand.
Scholar: How do you feel after I slapped you?
Young Man: Of course, I felt the pain.
Scholar: So do you believe that pain exists?
Young Man: Yes.
Scholar: Show me the shape of the pain!
Young Man: I cannot.
Scholar: That is my first answer. All of us feel God's existence without being able to see His shape.
Scholar: Last night, did you dream that you will be slapped by me?
Young Man: No.
Scholar: Did you ever think that you will get a slap from me, today?
Young Man: No.
Scholar: That is takdir (fate).
Scholar: My hand that I used to slap you, what is it created from?
Young Man: It is created from skin.
Scholar: How about your face, what is it created from?
Young Man: Skin.
Scholar: How do you feel after I slapped you?
Young Man: In pain.
Scholar: Even though Shaitan (Devil) and also the hell were created from the fire, if Allah wants, insha-Allah (God willing), the hell will become a very painful place for Shaitan (Devil).

fatak



_

[Wanderer]

This story wouldn't have worked out well if the boy had hereditary sensory autonomic neuropathy Type 5.

The scholar would have slapped him and the young man wouldn't have felt a thing. For him, pain and thus god, wouldn't exist.

http://www.detnews.com/2004/health/0405/02/a06-132864.htm

[Shakoosh Kabir]

Splendid, W. I knew there had to be an explanation.:gap:

[Scarlet]

Originally posted by Wanderer
This story wouldn't have worked out well if the boy had hereditary sensory autonomic neuropathy Type 5.

The scholar would have slapped him and the young man wouldn't have felt a thing. For him, pain and thus god, wouldn't exist.

http://www.detnews.com/2004/health/0405/02/a06-132864.htm

what about the other 2? do u have an explanation for them?

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by Scarlet
what about the other 2? do u have an explanation for them?


Scarlet, if no gods exist, do questions about fate and Satans have any meaning ?

Anyway, reread the story. Notice that the scholar never actually directly answers the very first question - "1. Does God exist? If so, show me His shape."

The scholar skips the first question and merely assumes his God exists and proceeds to demonstrate that some things don't have shape. The problem with his example is that pain doesn't exist outside of an individul's perception of it. To understand me, answer this - where does the pain of the slap go after the young man has felt it ?

The answer is that it's gone. The entire experience was internal to the young man - the type of pain, the severity, the duration, are all meaningful only to the person experiencing it. And once it is no longer felt, it is completely gone. It isn't existing independently of the young man somewhere else.

So when our deceitful and manipulative "scholar" answers:

"All of us feel God's existence without being able to see His shape"

He should have also said: "All of us feel pain/joy/sorrow/jealousy/anger without being able to see its shape.

Yet none of these experiences exist outside of us. They are personal, internal, and temporary.

So this experience of feeling "God's existance" in his answer might also be like feeling pain/joy/sorrow/jealousy/anger, etc. It is personal and "real" to the person having the experience, but it is internal and transitory.

There is no entity "Joy" or "Pain".

So too with gods. Religious experiences are internal. They do not exist independently of our mind - they are, in fact, a product of our mind.

[Nocia9600]

Originally posted by Wanderer
Scarlet, if no gods exist, do questions about fate and Satans have any meaning ?

If I say the plane is flying without any type of human involvement u may laugh at me. But think about all of what is going on the earth and beyond (day, night, sun, moon,nature, human beings etc) and say there is no one involved. I say Allah exists and is involved in all of these. As to what is His shape, It is beyond human comprehension, but his signs of existance is all over the earth and further away (just think about his air you currently breathing among other things)

[X-press]

Fatak, I honnestly find your post very amusing and it is a good comparaison, though I wished the scholar had used a different, if not more gentle, method of teaching the same lesson ;)

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by Nocia9600
... but his [Allah] signs of existance is all over the earth and further away (just think about his air you currently breathing among other things)

It is fine that you attribute all to your god - pain, suffering, greed, wind, rotten eggs, shadows, air, waves, earthquakes, farts, your football team's record of wins and losses, as well as difficult to remove protien-based stains. All of these things are or have been claimed to be caused by other gods too.

Allah didn't make the air. Our atmosphere has existed a lot longer than your God. Scientists have determined that Earth has had an atmosphere for millions of years. Documentation of Allah is very sparse before 1400 years ago though there are earlier references, none come close to millions of years ago.

[Nocia9600]

Originally posted by Wanderer


Scientists have determined that Earth has had an atmosphere for millions of years. Documentation of Allah is very sparse before 1400 years ago though there are earlier references, none come close to millions of years ago. Whatever Scientists have determined is already mention in Allah book qur'an one way or another, they just repeating.

Allah book is not only mentioning about 1400 years ago but it explains from the day the earth and heaven were created then it goes on to Prophet Adam and his wife hawa , Prophet Abraham, Prophet Isa (Jesus) other prophets on and on human creation, life, death and on until the day of judgement.

[Nocia9600]

Originally posted by Wanderer
Our atmosphere has existed a lot longer than your God. The planes started flying lot longer than human existence millions years ago what about that (that is what u are saying). see my earlier post

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by Nocia9600
Whatever Scientists have determined is already mention in Allah book qur'an one way or another, they just repeating.



Cool. Then would you be so kind as to show me where the Theory of Flight is explained in the Quran ?

[IceTea]

Originally posted by Wanderer
. Our atmosphere has existed a lot longer than your God.

Prove it.

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by IceTea
Prove it.


OK. What is the first recorded instance of your God's name Allah ?

(I have a thread open on that subject so you can answer in both please).

[Nocia9600]

Originally posted by Wanderer
Cool. Then would you be so kind as to show me where the Theory of Flight is explained in the Quran ? Human being is a product of Allah combinned the knowlege god has bless them with more than other animals plus other God Materials on earth they come up with many theories of many items.

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by Nocia9600
Whatever Scientists have determined is already mention in Allah book qur'an one way or another, they just repeating.




So your comment above isn't really true.

Why do you feel the need to make things up ?

[Nocia9600]

If u are unbeliver u will remain unbeliver until Allah mecy comes your way. hope soon


If I say the plane is flying without any type of human involvement u may laugh at me. But think about all of what is going on the earth and beyond (day, night, sun, moon,nature, human beings etc) and say there is no one involved. I say Allah exists and is involved in all of these. As to what is His shape, It is beyond human comprehension, but his signs of existance is all over the earth and further away (just think about his air you currently breathing among other things)

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by Nocia9600
If u are unbeliver u will remain unbeliver until Allah mecy comes your way. hope soon



Thanks, Nocia, but I'm not particularly superstitious.

Do you realize that you use the same post over and over. It's like covering your ears and yelling so you don't have to hear something unpleasent.

[Nocia9600]

Originally posted by Wanderer
Do you realize that you use the same post over and over. Yes I do. I love it, I believe in it and it is always in my heart and it is my signature.


If I say the plane is flying without any type of human involvement u may laugh at me.

But think about all of what is going on the earth and beyond (day, night, sun, moon,nature, human beings etc) and say there is no one involved.

I say Allah exists and is involved in all of these.

As to what is His shape, It is beyond human comprehension, but his signs of existance is all over the earth and further away (just think about his air you currently breathing among other things)

[IceTea]

Originally posted by Wanderer
OK. What is the first recorded instance of your God's name Allah ?

(I have a thread open on that subject so you can answer in both please).

Your question answered, now where is your prove?

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by IceTea
Your question answered, now where is your prove?

You posted post-Islamic "evidence" of the name "Allah".

Since the Prophet's parents and grandparents breathed air, it must have existed prior to your "evidence" which came during the life of the Prophet or later.


Thanks for playing and better luck next time.

[IceTea]

Originally posted by Wanderer
You posted post-Islamic "evidence" of the name "Allah".

Since the Prophet's parents and grandparents breathed air, it must have existed prior to your "evidence" which came during the life of the Prophet or later.


Thanks for playing and better luck next time.

Again the event happend before Islam so don't try to act smart.

Where is your prove for this:


Our atmosphere has existed a lot longer than your God.

[Nocia9600]

Originally posted by Wanderer
Since the Prophet's parents and grandparents breathed air, it must have existed prior to your "evidence" which came during the life of the Prophet or later.




True Air existed even before Adam so does that change anything.

The Qur'an doesn't only teach things from 1400 years ago, it teaches everything from creation of earth and on.

GOD choose to bring diffent prophet at diffent time start with Adam, others, Abraham others, Isa (Jesus) and then final one Mohammed with one messege God is one.GOD IS ONE

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by IceTea
Again the event happend before Islam so don't try to act smart.

We have no reliable evidence from you.



Originally posted by IceTea

Where is your prove for this: [Our atmosphere has existed a lot longer than your God.]

You have not established mention of Allah prior to the Quran.

Now -

"We consider the Earth to have been formed by accretion approximately 4.4 to 4.6 billion years ago"

"The Earth's atmosphere was created by the offgassing of the Earth's mantle, 80-85% of this offgassing is thought to have occurred in the first million or so years of the Earth's history".

http://www.mansfield.ohio-state.edu/~sabedon/biol1010.htm


THUS, the evidence supports that the Earth had an atmosphere over 4 billion years ago.


So you need to work back a few BILLION years from ~600 AD, IceTea.

[IceTea]

Originally posted by Wanderer
We have no reliable evidence from you.


If you recall I posted two Hadiths and as you know Hadith comes as the 2nd source in Islam after the holy Quran. So it's a reliable Wanderer.




You have not established mention of Allah prior to the Quran.


I did that, Allah told Adam to greet the angels so they repied to him with the famous Islamic greeting which we know up today and it's the greeting of the people in heaven (Al Salam Alaykom Warahmatu Allah WaBarakatuh)



Now -

"We consider the Earth to have been formed by accretion approximately 4.4 to 4.6 billion years ago"

"The Earth's atmosphere was created by the offgassing of the Earth's mantle, 80-85% of this offgassing is thought to have occurred in the first million or so years of the Earth's history".

http://www.mansfield.ohio-state.edu/~sabedon/biol1010.htm


THUS, the evidence supports that the Earth had an atmosphere over 4 billion years ago.


So you need to work back a few BILLION years from ~600 AD, IceTea.

Again wonderer the earth (heavens and earth were joined togeather) is created by Allah so it's atmosphere created by Allah too for human beings to live in it as stated in the Quran.

Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?

And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them, and We have made therein broad highways (between mountains) for them to pass through: that they may receive Guidance.

And We have made the heavens as a canopy well guarded: yet do they turn away from the Signs which these things (point to)!

It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by IceTea


If you recall I posted two Hadiths and as you know Hadith comes as the 2nd source in Islam after the holy Quran. So it's a reliable Wanderer.

Hadith are post Islamic history, poetry, and fairy tales. Some are an attempt to make some sense of what certain verses in the Quran say.



Originally posted by IceTea


I did that, Allah told Adam to greet the angels so they repied to him with the famous Islamic greeting which we know up today and it's the greeting of the people in heaven (Al Salam Alaykom Warahmatu Allah WaBarakatuh)



Again wonderer the earth (heavens and earth were joined togeather) is created by Allah so it's atmosphere created by Allah too for human beings to live in it as stated in the Quran.

Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?

And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them, and We have made therein broad highways (between mountains) for them to pass through: that they may receive Guidance.

And We have made the heavens as a canopy well guarded: yet do they turn away from the Signs which these things (point to)!

It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.


Sadly, this is all heresay by confused and easily manipulated people - some were even poorly educated and illiterate.

Allah has said nothing himself. Others have said that Gabriel said that Allah said ... still others have said that another has said that Gabriel has said that Allah said (aka Hadith).

Gossip.

[Nocia9600]

Surah 109. The Disbelievers, Atheists

1. Say : O ye that reject Faith!

2. I worship not that which ye worship,

3. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

4. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,

5. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

6. To you be your Way, and to me mine.