What kind of GOD is that who "promised" Palestine to jews ?

Any idea and if you can quote source of the promise I'd very much appreciate and Thank you in advance for your enlightenment.

) God's promises to Abraham

Those arguing for this view normally begin with God's promises to Abraham

This view argues that God promised Abraham that he and his descendants would have land for ever (Gen 17 below). So it was inevitable that Israel would one day return to the land.

Here's the passages used:

Genesis 12

1 Now the Lord had said to Abram: "Get out of your country, From your family And from your father's house, To a land that I will show you. 2 I will make you a great nation; I will bless you And make your name great; And you shall be a blessing. 3 I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."

6 Abram passed through the land to the place of Shechem, as far as the terebinth tree of Moreh. And the Canaanites were then in the land. 7 Then the Lord appeared to Abram and said, "To your descendants I will give this land." And there he built an altar to the Lord, who had appeared to him. 8 And he moved from there to the mountain east of Bethel, and he pitched his tent with Bethel on the west and Ai on the east; there he built an altar to the Lord and called on the name of the Lord.

Time passed, but God hadn't forgotten his promise of relationship, descendants and land.

Genesis 15

15:18 On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying: "To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites."

Genesis 17

1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. 2 And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly." 3 Then Abram fell on his face, and God talked with him, saying: 4 "As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations. 5 No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many nations. 6 I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come from you.7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God." 9 And God said to Abraham: "As for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations.

b) God confirmed his promises repeatedly

Apart from Abraham purchasing a plot of land to bury his wife Sarah, the promise of land seemed like a pipe dream. But the promise still stood. God reaffirms his words to Abraham's son Isaac and Isaac's son Jacob.

Genesis 26

1 There was a famine in the land, besides the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went to Abimelech king of the Philistines, in Gerar. 2 Then the Lord appeared to him and said: "Do not go down to Egypt; live in the land of which I shall tell you. 3 Dwell in this land, and I will be with you and bless you; for to you and your descendants I give all these lands, and I will perform the oath which I swore to Abraham your father. 4 And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws."

Genesis 35

10 And God said to him, "Your name is Jacob; your name shall not be called Jacob anymore, but Israel shall be your name." So He called his name Israel. 11 Also God said to him: "I am God Almighty. Be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall proceed from you, and kings shall come from your body. 12 The land which I gave Abraham and Isaac I give to you; and to your descendants after you I give this land."

The Genesis narrative continues with the scheming Jacob and his feud with Esau. When famine comes Jacob's offspring have to flee to Egypt for grain. Joseph, Jacob's son plays a key role and the family is saved from extinction. But now they are in Egypt and thoughts of land ownership seem even further away.

But readers of Genesis may remember that God had predicted as much:

Genesis 15

13 Then He said to Abram: "Know certainly that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, and will serve them, and they will afflict them four hundred years. 14 And also the nation whom they serve I will judge; afterward they shall come out with great possessions. 15 Now asfor you, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried at a good old age. 16 But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete."

So it would seem that God was graciously waiting to see if the Amorites (people of Canaan) would behave better.

After 400 years in Egypt, the Israelites are on the move again. God rescues them from Pharoah. The exodus is a key event. Here is a group of people with memories of their forefathers, (the book of Genesis was probably written at this time) but knowing only slavery who are liberated. This is used in the NT as picture of spiritual liberation in Christ. They are now travelling towards the Promised Land, where they can be the nation God wants them to be. In Exodus 19 confirms his covenant with them and asks them if they are willing to be His people.

'You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to Myself. 5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. 6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel." 7 So Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before them all these words which the Lord commanded him. 8 Then all the people answered together and said, "All that the Lord has spoken we will do." So Moses brought back the words of the people to the Lord.

Summary:

So the verses thus far have confirmed that God's gift of the land was linked closely to his relationship with them. Supporters of this view say that God never goes back on a promise. They argue that God promised three things to Abraham: 1. his blessing 2. descendants 3. land. This is why some of them are so adamant that other views are faulty. It is God himself who is being questioned! Supporters of this view also point to texts included in the law, which was given at Mount Sinai as the Israelites travelled. The law and the land are closely linked. It was ultimately disobedience to the law of God that caused problems in the land. The law is listed in Exodus and Leviticus and parts are repeated in Deuteronomy.

Supporters of the view say the following two references are further indications of God's intent.

Deuteronomy 26

1 "And it shall be, when you come into the land which the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, and you possess it and dwell in it, 2 that you shall take some of the first of all the produce of the ground, which you shall bring from your land that the Lord your God is giving you, and put it in a basket and go to the place where the Lord your God chooses to make His name abide.

Deuteronomy 30

30:3 that the Lord your God will bring you back from captivity, and have compassion on you, and gather you again from all the nations where the Lord your God has scattered you. 30:4 If any of you are driven out to the farthest parts under heaven, from there the Lord your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you.

c) God kept his promises

Under Joshua, the land was finally inhabited by the children of Israel. We could add quote upon quote, but one will be enough.

Joshua 21

43 So the Lord gave to Israel all the land of which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they took possession of it and dwelt in it. 44 The Lord gave them rest all around, according to all that He had sworn to their fathers. And not a man of all their enemies stood against them; the Lord delivered all their enemies into their hand. 45 Not a word failed of any good thing which the Lord had spoken to the house of Israel. All came to pass. Alongside Joshua we need to recall, that they lived alongside other peoples who they failed to expel from the land.

The amount of land inhabited was actually much less than that promised to Abraham (for example Abraham was promised land down to the River Euphrates) . Supporters of view 2 argue that since the Bible talks of the fulfilment of the promise to Abraham, God was not bothered about precise fulfilment. Supporters of view 1 argue that God promised the land 'for ever' and if it hasn't been fulfilled literally it will one day. So the present day Holy Land will be vastly enlarged.

d) God extended his promise

In the Old Testament God makes four covenants; with Noah affecting all mankind, with Abraham, Moses and David affecting the nation of Israel. Jeremiah predicts the New Covenant in Christ in Jer 31.

The Davidic covenant, as its commonly known is the last covenant made with Israel in the OT and has a bearing on our question. The promise extended from our heading refers to the promise made to David. Supporters of View 1 say this means that the nation of Israel must be part of God's future purposes because God promises that there will always be a son of David on Israel's throne. Some say this will be fulfilled when Jesus returns, others when Jesus sets up his millennial reign.

(Opponents say there hasn't always been a son of David on Israel's throne because Herod, on the throne at the time of Jesus was not a true Jew, but came from Idumea, having been given the throne by Rome. Hence if this passage was to be fulfilled literally, it must be when Jesus came the first time, and is King over the new spiritual kingdom.).

2 Samuel 7

10 Moreover I will appoint a place for My people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own and move no more; nor shall the sons of wickedness oppress them anymore, as previously, 11 since the time that I commanded judges to be over My people Israel, and have caused you to rest from all your enemies. Also the Lord tells you that He will make you a house. 12 "When your days are fulfilled and you rest with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who will come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be his Father, and he shall be My son. If he commits iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men and with the blows of the sons of men. 15 But My mercy shall not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I removed from before you. 16 And your house and your kingdom shall be established forever before you. Your throne shall be established forever." ' " 17 According to all these words and according to all this vision, so Nathan spoke to David.

In the Psalms David recalls God's goodness in granting the land to Israel. Israel owned more land under David/Solomon than at any other time.

Psalm 105

8 He remembers His covenant forever, The word which He commanded, for a thousand generations, 9 The covenant which He made with Abraham, And His oath to Isaac, 10 And confirmed it to Jacob for a statute, To Israel as an everlasting covenant, 11 Saying, "To you I will give the land of Canaan As the allotment of your inheritance,"

e) God's promises were re-established or left unfulfilled

The supporters of this view quote a number of texts from the prophetic books. We will consider just a few. But first a brief outline of prophetic books to put the passages in context.

who cares........all what we need to know is that god promised us better life if we fallow his book.

and why does jews think that they are the promised people on earth ...what the hell is going on in the messed up world ..we are watching murder right infront of our eyes and we are just watching how is god going to forgive us if we dont forgive each otherz. it feels like the access of evil is real this time....

peace

Problem is with the people that think their book is the right one, and everyone elses is wrong, and willing to kill for it. So.....we all make choices. And whatever higher entity you choose to believe watches on. It's ironic that God gives us free choice, and some choose to kill for his "love". That is a frightening thought.

But did THEIR god really have to "promise" jews FOR a land when he created them on THE LAND ?


:confused:

What does "have to" have to do with it?! You asked, Scottish showed you that the promise was indeed made, in several places...

who are we to question why God does what He does?

Originally posted by Desert_Sloath
But did THEIR god really have to "promise" jews FOR a land when he created them on THE LAND ?


:confused:


According to their mythology, their God gave them certain lands after their "escape" from bondage in Egypt.

Don't ask me....I already stated I don't believe historical religious claims.

Originally posted by Wanderer
According to their mythology, their God gave them certain lands after their "escape" from bondage in Egypt.


you mean, a donkish gratitude sort of ?

Originally posted by Desert_Sloath
you mean, a donkish gratitude sort of ?

So, let me get this straight. You want everyone to respect your religion, but show no respect for anyone elses?

Originally posted by Scottish
So, let me get this straight. You want everyone to respect your religion, but show no respect for anyone elses?


correct me if I am wrong. Your statement rejects Islam doesn't it ?

You're wrong. All religions are valid. Said it about a billion times already. This just proves how you read into things that aren't there.

By the way. How did you get that out of what I wrote?

Moved to Religions Sabla

Originally posted by Shinoda LP
Moved to Religions Sabla


oh, mr Shinoda LP !!! this thread was intended for political discussions and not religion one. I can understand your decision but in this part of the world there is a very fine-line to be distinguished by religio-politic.

thanks for the quotes, Scottish! :)

Desert_Sloath: you seem to be referring to a land G-d calls "Israel" or "Cana'an."

for more info.:

http://believersofthebible.org/campaign_holy_land.html
God gave them certain lands after their "escape" from bondage in Egypt

wanderer: Based on the verses from Genesis correctly quoted above, Jews believe that G-d actually gave the Land to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, i.e., it belonged to the Jews even before the exodus from Egypt.

who are we to question why God does what He does?

Well, though we can't reject His commandments, and we must follow them regardless of the extent we understand, we can ask respectfully for Him to bestow us with understanding, which we attain through assiduous Torah study. This is why G-d gave the Torah, so man can understand His Will.

Originally posted by monotheism

wanderer: Based on the verses from Genesis correctly quoted above, Jews believe that G-d actually gave the Land to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, i.e., it belonged to the Jews even before the exodus from Egypt.




I think that was a different god.

No, according to the Torah/Bible only One G-d exists--you must be thinking of some other religion.

Originally posted by monotheism
No, according to the Torah/Bible only One G-d exists
Oh really? I’m never quite sure from reading the Bible. All the references to “we”, “our”, and “us” when talking about God are just confusing. Translation errors possibly?

Gen.1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
Gen.3:22 And Jehovah God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil;
Gen.11:7 Come, let us go down, and there confound their language,
Ex.15:11 Who is like unto thee, O Jehovah, among the gods?

For a longer list, see http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/gods.html

Originally posted by monotheism
No, according to the Torah/Bible only One G-d exists--you must be thinking of some other religion.


How do we KNOW that Abraham and Moses had the same God ?


Does Abraham use the same familiar/personal name for his god that Moses used ?