Originally posted by monotheism
MoonChild: you don't believe that marriage should be under the auspices of G-d--a holy, blessed union?

Originally posted by MoonChild
Idon't believe God, in whatever form She takes, is so much a busybody as to require us to seek Her permission. The sacredness of our union is up to us to seek and acquire - or fail to.

My perception of divinity is both MORE and LESS personal than what most people believe.

by the way, meet my better half ;) HIS idea of divinity is decidedly skeptical :p I believe because I've met Her :)

I see now--you're married to Wanderer!

I don't know about permission, but blessing. If G-d is creating the world, don't you want His blessings?

You say that you believe that He exists, but you don't think that he'd be such a "busybody" to be concerned about the mundane aspects of our lives.

This is interesting. According to Judaism, there is a concept called Divine Providence, which means that the Creator is concerned about every aspect of the universe, even the most apparently petty.

Everything is Divinely guided, and a part of the Grand Divine Plan leading to the fulfillment of the Ultimate Purpose.

How much more so is this true about marriage, which is one of the most significant events, if not the most, in one's life!

http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/led-by-hashems-hand/01.htm

(BTW, I don't think that there is much basis for the concept of divine reward and punishment if one believes that the Creator doesn't "micromanage." If He's not concerned, why should He bother rewarding or punishing?)

Originally posted by monotheism
(BTW, I don't think that there is much basis for the concept of divine reward and punishment if one believes that the Creator doesn't "micromanage." If He's not concerned, why should He bother rewarding or punishing?)

BINGO!!!

got it in one. I don't believe in divine reward or punishment.

So IYHO a Deity exists, but He is merely an impersonal 1st Cause? How do you explain the organisation, complexity, and precision in nature, present even on a subatomic level?

Isn't that like saying that a painter spent hours and hours on a tiny spot of his painting, and then saying that he doesn't care about it!

I don't pretend to have answers about all the universe. I'm not convinced of a being or intelligence that pre-existed the physical universe and caused it to come into being based on a particular design... it's possible, of course, but it's simply not "testable" in any scientific way. One can, with equal validity, claim that something so complicated "could not" have occurred without a creator (which begs the question of where the creator came from and how he got so smart), or that of course it "could have" occured because here we are :) It's quite possible that lots of other universes did their Big Bang thing but all the pieces didn't come together, so just kinda fizzled out. Metaphyics- interesting questions without any way to find an answer.

Whatever the Truth of the matter is, it cannot be threatened or contradicted in any way by what is observable ... so the first tool we can use in our investigation of the universe is Science. For a religion to be true, it cannot be contradicted by scientific evidence.

so if nothing else, that's a GOOD way to rule out the riff-raff ;)

I study physics, chemistry, biology, ecology, statistics... and I see many things that we can already explain in a non-miraculous way... if you take the time you see that the natural laws CAN lead to what appears mysterious and complex to the ignorant ... you can claim that "God created it that way", or choose to believe that the natural laws exist without God, or that the natural laws ARE God.

Better to say that I am open to the possibility of a Diety, but that traditional explanations of Who that Diety is and What he is like are very unsatisfying and illogical. And I just don't see why a loving, omnisicient being would be cruel, petty, or just plain ridiculous.

I am open to the possibility of a Diety

I firmly believe that as long as you strive to search sincerely and be intellectually honest even when it means making sacrifices and changing your lifestyle, I am confident that ultimately you will discover the Truth.

I'd love to know what your last post said before you edited it ;)

:D

Actually, I made a typo, and I HATE typos, so I edited it--though I'm not crazy about the "edited by" line that much either.