I am reading a book called "Forbidden Love" by Norma Khouri.

Its based on a true story according to the writer.

Its basicly about two girls who are close friends. One is a muslim the other is christian. The muslim girl falls in love with a christian guy and at the end the girls parents kill her for "honor".

What I want to know from members who lived in Jordan: is whats said in this story is true?

I mean I live in an arab country which i beleives was way less libral than Jordan. According to the way the girl wrote the story, we in Oman are more liberal than Jordan. I mean she says that Women in Jordan should practicly take care of the men in the house (which I dont beleive is true at all!!). Awain they are not allowed to have thier meals before the men of the house! (for god sake that cant be true at all!!).
In order to enter university, she has to have the permission of her male relative?
and the story continue to tale how women's life in Jordan is like 100 years backward!!! (and this is not related to religion coz the writer is christian, its related to Jordan itself)

I was seriously shocked and I still beleive this is not true and teh writer just want to make her story famous .. but thought why shouldnt I ask those who live there if this is true!!
I mean if its not, then sadly the writer has really showed the west a very corruoted oic of Jordan's/Arabs society!!

i myself dont belive it, but it might actually depend on the culture of rather than law (you dont know which part of jordan they might be from)

well nabhan you have an asssignment to do!

Maybe that is true in some parts of the country... its like Egypt they still have such things you know... Until now we hear about families taking revenge for other family members who have been killed.... so there is nothing strange in what you read in that book....

This kind of stories in Jordan is true 100% & happens every day!!
I've heard hundreds stories similar to that one & some r more horrible!!!

well am not sure about the other parts of jordan , but judging from where i am and what i;ve seen over here i can say that what the writer said was a LOAD OF CRAP!! If anything at all , people here respect each other and families are all together , eat meals TOGETHER ( and i ate a few meals with some lovely families) , they do not need permision from a male to enter private unis ( cause am in a private uni , and so i dont know about the government ones).

its sad how they twist and turn the facts to make it seem that arabs are repressed and have no freedom and all as if they are perfect. :bored:

oops.. gotta run to class. bye:p

NaBHaN it does exist, but u r as usual living in " Dream Land":bored:

I'm sure it does exist but probably not on the scale that the writer makes out it is. At the end of the day she's trying to sell a book and this kinda story sells. If she was going to portray the majority of families as civilised then she's wouldn't sell as much. Remember the 'Princess' series? I bet this book's the same.

AP, I wanted to buy the book before but then I figured it'll just be like all the other books. Would you recommend that I buy it or is it not really worth reading?

OMG!!!! i read the book this summer and ufff uuffff it annoyed me so much !! :shoot:Norma is a B***H!! sorry but its true !! i mean ok fine we get the point that yeh the story is about her n dalia and yeh the girl made a mistake and all and i agree with her at some parts that "honor killing" isnt that gr8 because the girl didnt do it with they guy she was just seen with a guy, so her father has not right to stab her chest 12 times BUT the way she described islam is SOOO WROONG, the way she critized our religion is way outta line!
i was shocked too when i read about Jordan i didnt think it was like that ! i asked my islamic teacher whose jordanian and his like its not like that, Norma over exaggerated. .. lol u know what made me laugh was when she's like Dalia has to swim with her 3abaaya if she wanted too.. even if she did the 3abaayah will still stick to her body when she gets outta the water ..GAWD!!

Originally posted by el7ilwa
NaBHaN it does exist, but u r as usual living in " Dream Land":bored:

did u visit jordan dear? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Diva

AP, I wanted to buy the book before but then I figured it'll just be like all the other books. Would you recommend that I buy it or is it not really worth reading?

well am just at the begining and I was shoked big deal .. ya3ni the way Norma was expressing her story, you could beleive its true even if I know something about the Jordanian society what about those who dont!!

well if u r much into those kind of stories, its intresting. I didnt read princess so I couldnt tell u if its like other books, but its different than Mirage ..

I like Mirage better!

Lots of people would be shocked to know, but I disagree with Nabhan. Jordan is still very badwin, and yes they do kill in the name of “honor” ask Kitkat, she would tell you tones of stories..

A good friend of my brother “he’s a Christian” was going out with this Muslim girl, when her father found out, he went to the guys house and had a gun in his hand ready to kill him as soon as he spotted him, lucky for him, the guy wasn’t around.

It’s not only going out with a person from a different religion, sometimes it’s just about knowing a guy..

Jordan still needs big time development, not in the country it self but the people’s mentalities..

Not like Oman is any better, Men has to walk infront of his women when they're at the suq? WTH?

Originally posted by NaBHaN
did u visit jordan dear? :rolleyes:

U can say so:rolleyes:

Originally posted by el7ilwa
U can say so:rolleyes:

would u say that it was enough for u to judge them the way u did? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by NaBHaN
would u say that it was enough for u to judge them the way u did? :rolleyes:

Nah, I did say cauz I know about them more than enough so I don't have to visit them;) .

Duuh do u think by visiting a country u gonna know all about their traditions & way of thinking??
U gonna only be in touch with the ppl who think the same as u or ppl from your own country living there NaBHaN, so how can u know about such important matters of the country ppl?!?!

Originally posted by el7ilwa
Nah, I did say cauz I know about them more than enough so I don't have to visit them;) .

Duuh do u think by visiting a country u gonna know all about their traditions & way of thinking??
U gonna only be in touch with the ppl who think the same as u or ppl from your own country living there NaBHaN, so how can u know about such important matters of the country ppl?!?!

you are wrong.. the people i hang out with are nothing like me and are mostly jordanians . i think i would know better than u when it comes to this.

am not saying it doesnt exist , am sure it does , as it does in many other arab countries , but its not to the extent that the author of the book has mentioned.

Originally posted by NaBHaN
you are wrong.. the people i hang out with are nothing like me and are mostly jordanians . i think i would know better than u when it comes to this.

am not saying it doesnt exist , am sure it does , as it does in many other arab countries , but its not to the extent that the author of the book has mentioned.

Well I didn't read that book if u want the truth, but one of my Jordanian fried told me when she saw the life in Oman " WOW your ppl very open mind & your life easy not like the life in Jordan which still the same as the stony ages!!! as somy said"
This is some thing u can't talk about it during a meal in a restuarant!:rolleyes:

Hmm...

Nabhan you've only been in the capital right? I don't think that speaks for the whole country.

I remember reading an article that Jordan WAS in fact very old fashioned in many places...

Originally posted by el7ilwa
Well I didn't read that book if u want the truth, but one of my Jordanian fried told me when she saw the life in Oman " WOW your ppl very open mind & your life easy not like the life in Jordan which still the same as the stony ages!!! as somy said"
This is some thing u can't talk about it during a meal in a restuarant!:rolleyes:

who said that the meal i had was in a restuarant. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Enigma
Hmm...

Nabhan you've only been in the capital right? I don't think that speaks for the whole country.

I remember reading an article that Jordan WAS in fact very old fashioned in many places...

Exactly , this is what I was trying to tell this stony head:bored: .

NaBHaN if it was in a resturant or in a caffe it doesn't matter...

You don't give up "stubborn man" do u??!!:rolleyes:

Originally posted by el7ilwa
Exactly , this is what I was trying to tell this stony head:bored: .

NaBHaN if it was in a resturant or in a caffe it doesn't matter...

You don't give up "stubborn man" do u??!!:rolleyes:

it wasnt in a cafe either.

:bored:

--------

Enigma : i think i said this above.

Originally posted by NaBHaN
am not saying it doesnt exist , am sure it does , as it does in many other arab countries , but its not to the extent that the author of the book has mentioned.

:bored:

Some1,
if the writer just concentrated on the story of the muslim dating the christian or dating in general, it would be alright .. but then she claimed the overall situation

cummonnnnn some1 a man walking beside his wife doesnt indicate how open/close minded the society is!! there are more other important aspects in thier lives!!

As I said, am still at the early chapters of the storty .. but every chapter I read makes me disbeleive the story more ..

I mean a christian girl in Jordan is forced into a marraige where the husband doesnt allow her to step out of the house?!!
Even if it happened in Oman people will start condeming the man!!

These are few summaries I found of the book, but beleive me whats written there is even worse!
the-bookshelf.com (http://www.the-bookshelf.com/ref/1863253483.htm)

Jordan is a predominantly Muslim country in the heart of the Arab world with around 4% of the population being of diverse Christian denominations. It is a modern, technologically advanced and (would like the world to believe) rapidly democratizing nation. It is a country that welcomes the future while holding fast to its ancient roots and traditions. For women, progress is negligible.
For example, they are now allowed to study any subject they want, as long as they have their father's, brother's or husband's agreement. But in a country that boasts advancement, a woman's choice is still made by a man. Controlled by fear instilled in them by generations of male dominance, their only option is to live carefully within the rules.
Dalia was a young, beautiful, Arabian Muslim living with her family in Amman, Jordan. But aged 25, she unexpectedly fell in love with Michael, a young Catholic man, a major in the Royal Army. She was forced to keep her relationship with him secret and knew that if the relationship became public it could cost her her life.

Two months after her 26th birthday, Dalia was the victim of an honor killing at the hands of her father. Her older brother had become suspicious and reported it to their father. Dalia was still a virgin. Her only crime was to fall in love. Norma Khouri's book is a gift to the memory of her life-long friend and an attempt to bring to the world's attention the plight of thousands of women still subject to inhumane rules in a society where honor killing is allowed and accepted and goes completely unpunished. Defying tradition and confronting Dalia's family about the killing, Norma was forced to flee the country when her own family threatened to kill her for shaming them in public.
She fled to Athens where she worked as a housemaid and wrote this book in Internet cafes. She now lives in Australia.


Interview with Norma Khouri (http://www.absolutewrite.com/novels/norma_khouri.htm)

Dear Arabian, from the summaries u have posted above I didn't find any thing an belivable!!!
Cauz I've been told by Jordanian friends worse than what u said, & really u don't want to hear it :yikes:.
The prb with Jordan that it had the pure beduin life, which remained till now with most of it's traditions.
They might calim that they r in the 21th century & more educated, but there r things they can't change their attitude on them, for Example the honor cases.
They are very strict & more than u imagin, I remember when we had the graduation party for all the graduated girls only, the Jordanian girls came with their mumy, which made all the girls in the room to be like :os .

We will live & see many strange things in life, & if it is strange for us doesn't make it impossible to belive.

i have heard, and always hear new strange stories about the Arab countries, their culture and some of their stupid traditions...

im not surprised....

El7ilwa ..

I know that there are problems in Jordan, and the summry is so far from whats written .. its even worse in the story.

I dont know, the more I read the more I beleive she is just faking the story!!

she claims that the Dhalia's parents are strict muslim, and hmm they allow her and her friend to open a unisex beauty parlor????
She is forced to wear Hijab (and sha'ria which I assume is abaya) when she is out, and she can touch a man's hair (and the guy she fell in love with was a client!!).

dunno, I dont beleive its true at all!!!

Originally posted by SoMe1

Not like Oman is any better, Men has to walk infront of his women when they're at the suq? WTH?

This is New to me:confused:

I never seen this happening except in Interior. Nevertheless, the woman don't "have " to walk behind the men. It happens naturally that the man walks faster.

Arabian,

Maybe the writer is pushing it a bit too far, but some of those are facts..

Lots of weird stuff going on, lots of them still have the badwin mentality

R-D : it still does happen, some of the girls i know complain about their father/brother and even husbands doing it (3eeb aweeen!!!)

If the the story happens or not i dont know .....but what i know from a jordanian person that lots of these stories happen in Jordan and he told me something like ( woman shakes when she talks to men even if they are relative and cant look to their eyes)

I think if the wife waits for her husband to finish his meal can be considered as a sign of respect and serving him. Maybe it's still available in some parts in an Islmaic world.

Originally posted by Arabian Princess
El7ilwa ..

I know that there are problems in Jordan, and the summry is so far from whats written .. its even worse in the story.

I dont know, the more I read the more I beleive she is just faking the story!!

she claims that the Dhalia's parents are strict muslim, and hmm they allow her and her friend to open a unisex beauty parlor????
She is forced to wear Hijab (and sha'ria which I assume is abaya) when she is out, and she can touch a man's hair (and the guy she fell in love with was a client!!).

dunno, I dont beleive its true at all!!!

Maybe cauz I didn't read the book, so I can't judge very well....
But maybe the auther has a difficult personal prb related to this traditions which he/she attacks!!!!
Who knows??:lost:

Originally posted by IceTea
I think if the wife waits for her husband to finish his meal can be considered as a sign of respect and serving him. Maybe it's still available in some parts in an Islmaic world.

u dont need a wife for that. just get a maid. :rolleyes:

An old thread but this is a report that would give validty to these stories.

According to the report:


83% of Jordanian women approve of wife beating if the woman cheats on her husband


60% approve of wife beating in cases where the wife burns a meal she's cooking


52% approve of wife beating in case where she's refused to follow the husband's orders

My ex-husband was from Jordan. This book is a load of crap and I don't believe a single word in it. My ex in laws were the most kindest people ever. We did everything together like a family. Oh well, it's amazing how MONEY talks.

Well Jordan's Queen Rania has spoken out on this issue and she says there is an ongoing problem of honor killing in Jordan and all over the ME.

I don't know if "this" book is fiction or fact.

What is not really in question is the basic subject matter of the book is not fiction. It is fact.

Also recent attempts to amend laws that stiffen penalties for these crimes ... were shot down by religious zealots. They must have alot of money!

I read this book, and I think the write exaggerated parts of it. Plus I don't think it was taken place in Amman but in the rural areas of Jordan where the Badwins live.

Ya the book was annoying.

i lived in Jordan and what i know what she said is a bull!

nothing is true except the honor thing is true but not in the capital ! they like kill the girl if they found out she had a relationship with a guy out of the limits! thats it.. and it doesnt happen a lot coz now in jordan they trying stop this by considering it not KILLING FOR HONOR but as killing without a right.. am not sure if they changed the law yet! but i have heard that they r trying too.

Moved from General Sabla

Well, aparantly the writer made all this up. There was a case about it in Australia if I am not mistaken. The book was stopped.

It is absolutely true about the killing for honor. I've read too many stories of girls getting murdered by a family member for honor, and the police does nothing to stop it,like they have no right to get in between a sensitive issue like that. I think it mostly happens within the Bedwin families more than the civilized people in the cities.

International Herald Tribune (http://www.iht.com/articles/reuters/2008/01/28/africa/OUKWD-UK-JORDAN-HONOUR.php) (New York Times)

January 28, 2008

Strangled by her brother, the 17-year-old girl died in a squalid Palestinian refugee camp that clings to a hillside near the Jordanian town of Jerash.

The woman, who had been married for eight months, was the second killed in Jordan this month in a so-called "honour" crime -- the murder of a woman accused of shaming her family.

A Jordanian prosecutor has charged a 20-year-old man with premeditated murder. Local newspapers said he had stuffed a scarf in his sister's mouth, choked her with an electric cable and smoked a pack of cigarettes before turning himself in.

Some versions of events say he had been angered by his sister's absences from home.

"If she was guilty, then she deserved it," said a college student in the refugee camp, who gave his name as Mohammed.

Perpetrators of "honour" crimes may escape with six months to two years in jail. Few suffer social stigma.

Jordan has made a start on tackling issues that many Arab countries barely acknowledge, but women's rights advocates say the persistence of "honour" crimes shows it still has far to go.

"We've had it in the public domain quite some time, but there are no changes," said Amal Sabbagh, a lecturer at Jordan University's Centre for Women's Studies. "People are happy with the status quo."


Al Jazeera (http://english.aljazeera.net/English/archive/archive?ArchiveId=39747)

September 07, 2003

Jordan’s Parliament has rejected the senate’s recommendation to uphold a law providing stiffer penalties for men who kill women in so-called "honour killings".

Islamists and conservatives said the laws violated religious traditions and would destroy families and values.