Since many members don't know much about Christianity or the Bible (New Testament), I thought you might be interested to know more about what Jesus actually said as recorded in the Bible. Although He is supposed to have taught through hundreds of public sermons, only a few are recorded, and although one could reasonably assume that the Disciples were given special teachings, NOTHING of that is recorded in the Bible.

The actual sayings of Jesus make up a very small portion of the New Testament, and I consider them to be the only valid basis for Christianity as a religion (as the rest is the opinion of the disciples, nothing more).

so here are a few of them:

Be Merciful, even as your Father is merciful. Luke 6:36

Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy. Matthew 5:7

All those who take the sword will perish by the sword. Matthew 26:52

For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted. Luke 14:11

For to him who has shall more be given, and from him who has not, even what he thinks that he was will be taken away. Luke 8:18

You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. The second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets. Matthew 22:37-40

As you wish that men would do to you, do so to them. Luke 6:31

Why do you call Me good ? No one is good but God alone. Luke 18:19

I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by Me. John 14:16

I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. John 6:35

All things are possible to him who believes. Mark 8:23

Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe. John 20:29

Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it! Luke 11:28

Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me; or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves. John 14:11

Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid. John 14:27


I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Luke 5:32

For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses neither will your father forgive your trespasses. Matthew 6:14-15

Interesting .. :rolleyes:

Ok let me put some logical comments:


Originally posted by MoonChild


I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by Me. John 14:16
[/b]

What does this mean? And who is the Father?

Originally posted by MoonChild
I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. John 6:35[/b]

How can a human being say something like this?

Originally posted by MoonChild
Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me; or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves. John 14:11
[/b]

How can a human being be in a God? And what is meant by the works?
Can a human being father be in his son body and form one person ? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by IceTea
[B]Interesting .. :rolleyes:

Well, it should be. It never hurts to increase one's knowledge :)



"I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by Me."
What does this mean? And who is the Father?

Well, that's the part that makes me not a Christian - as I was taught, it means that the ONLY way to know God is to believe in Jesus. I don't believe that.

The "Father" always refers to God.

"I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. "

How can a human being say something like this?

Obviously, Jesus believes himself to be more than human.


How can a human being be in a God? And what is meant by the works?


I've always interpreted the statement as that Jesus and God were always spiritually connected and in communication. By "works", Jesus is saying to judge him by his deeds in the world - not only the miracles, but his everyday behavior.

Of course a lot of his claims don't make any sense if you think he was just a regular guy. But muslims at least believe he was a prophet, right?

Originally posted by IceTea
What does this mean? And who is the Father

Wow, Teabag, you suddenly being hit by that verse? It simply means Jesus is the only way to the Father, and nothing else. Not your precious Islam, not the Qur'an. As for the Father, it is God. It is a tragedy in Islam that there are many names for God, but Father isn't one of them.

How can a human being say something like this?

As MoonChild said, Jesus does not consider Himself to be merely human. There are many more that Jesus said that points to this.

How can a human being be in a God? And what is meant by the works?

Or rather, how can God be human? See Teabag, another tragedy of Islam is that it believes God to be not fully comprehended by us humans, yet rejects the notion of the mystery of the Trinity when the Trinity actually fully emobies this notion of God being beyond man's understanding. Again, a tragedy of Islam.

Can a human being father be in his son body and form one person ?

No, but God is not merely human, is He?

Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft
Wow, Teabag, you suddenly being hit by that verse? It simply means Jesus is the only way to the Father, and nothing else. Not your precious Islam, not the Qur'an. As for the Father, it is God. It is a tragedy in Islam that there are many names for God, but Father isn't one of them.


There is nothing called Father, it's one of things which you have been told made by humans.

Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft

As MoonChild said, Jesus does not consider Himself to be merely human. There are many more that Jesus said that points to this.

Jesus PBUH is a profet like other profets. And he didn't said anything about being more than human but the people said lies about him. And you followed such lies blindly.


Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft

Or rather, how can God be human? See Teabag, another tragedy of Islam is that it believes God to be not fully comprehended by us humans, yet rejects the notion of the mystery of the Trinity when the Trinity actually fully emobies this notion of God being beyond man's understanding. Again, a tragedy of Islam.

God is above all this human made concepts including the Trinity.


Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft

No, but God is not merely human, is He?

Allah is not human and profet Jesus PBUH is human.

Originally posted by IceTea

Allah is not human and profet Jesus PBUH is human. [/B]
Good answer.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MoonChild

Why do you call Me good ? No one is good but God alone. Luke 18:19 [/COLOR]
I find this notion a bit strange, can you explain it plz?

Originally posted by IceTea
There is nothing called Father, it's one of things which you have been told made by humans.

Then you have missed the point of God being Creator then. That is Islam's tragedy--it sees God as Creator, but does not complete this by not seeing God as Father--the source of everything, and indeed as Father we proclaim Him to be everything. Islam should really learn this one.

Jesus PBUH is a profet like other profets. And he didn't said anything about being more than human but the people said lies about him. And you followed such lies blindly.

Again, it's your word against His word. Next point.

God is above all this human made concepts including the Trinity.

But since the Trinity is the Godhead, indeed God Himself, does this mean then that God is above Himself? That wouldn't make much sense now, would it, Teabag?

Allah is not human and profet Jesus PBUH is human.

As Jesus Himself said, He is the I AM--God Himself. Looking at Jesus' quotes here, it is perfectly clear He speaks of Himself as being beyond human, and being beyond a mere prophet.

Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft
Then you have missed the point of God being Creator then. That is Islam's tragedy--it sees God as Creator, but does not complete this by not seeing God as Father--the source of everything, and indeed as Father we proclaim Him to be everything. Islam should really learn this one.


In Islam we beleive Allah is the source of everything he is the creator of everything including human and jinn. But we don't see him as a Father because Allah has no wife and no son. He is above all this and he is giving childern to human beings and he gives males to whom he wants and give females to whom he wants and let whom he wants have no childern.

Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft
Again, it's your word against His word. Next point.

What I said is the truth which is stated in the holy Quran clearly.

Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft
But since the Trinity is the Godhead, indeed God Himself, does this mean then that God is above Himself? That wouldn't make much sense now, would it, Teabag?

Allah is above all human made concepts which dosen't make any sense to a normal human brain.


Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft
As Jesus Himself said, He is the I AM--God Himself. Looking at Jesus' quotes here, it is perfectly clear He speaks of Himself as being beyond human, and being beyond a mere prophet.

I can see I AM here means I'm the profet to you people and I came with one message to worship God only.

I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by Me

Why should there have to be a 'connection' to God through something/someone else? :duh:

And then there's the whole preist thing. I don't see why you should have to talk to someone else about your sins in order to get forgiveness.

I believe the way to God is open, and you need not to go through anyone to get to him.

Originally posted by IceTea
In Islam we beleive Allah is the source of everything he is the creator of everything including human and jinn. But we don't see him as a Father because Allah has no wife and no son

That is why Islam is tragic. Even the Old Testament called Israel as the children of God; this presupposes a Fatherly role in God, and indeed when one read the Old Testament, you can see that God acts more like a parent to an offspring. Does God need to have a wife? Not necessarily.

He is above all this and he is giving childern to human beings and he gives males to whom he wants and give females to whom he wants and let whom he wants have no childern.

This is a very literal interpretation of things. Let us see then: a man adopts a child. Do you then call the man any other name besides father to the child, when the man is single and has no wife? If you're familiar with Les Miserables Jean Valjean adopted Cossette as his daughter. Valjean never married, and yet he is a father to Cossette. So again it does not necessarily mean a father needs a wife to be so.

What I said is the truth which is stated in the holy Quran clearly.

Again, that is according to your book. Since we neither believe the Qur'an to be true nor inspired, we do not subscribe to it nor honor it.

Allah is above all human made concepts which dosen't make any sense to a normal human brain.

If that is so, then why can't you accept the Trinity, which even most Christian theologians does not know how it exactly works, and thus it is called a mystery? It doesn't make sense in our world: there are 3 Persons and yet still one God.

I can see I AM here means I'm the profet to you people and I came with one message to worship God only.

Uh, no Icebag. For the Jews, I AM is the Name of God, YHWH, and is holy to them. To have a person refer to himself as the I AM is balsphemy, punishable by death. To put an analogy, I come up to you and say I am God. Does that make me a mere prophet then? No, because what I am practically saying is that I am more than a prophet--I am God Himself, and above any prophet that ever came or will come. That is what Jesus did, and that is why the Jews were angry at Him and charged Him with blasphemy.

Why should there have to be a 'connection' to God through something/someone else?

Why shouldn't there be? I don't know if it is customary for Muslims to pray for one another. If someone approaches you and asks that you pray for him, in effect you are serving as a connection between him and God. The same applies when you ask someone to pray for you--you are practically asking that person to be a connection between you and God.

And then there's the whole preist thing. I don't see why you should have to talk to someone else about your sins in order to get forgiveness.

Sin isn't just a transgression against God, but indeed against the whole community. When you sin, you are saying that you do not believe in what your faith is saying, and go against it by committing sin. The priest acts as a representative then of both God and the community; I have touched on the topic of connection above. As a representative of the community, the priest gives pardon to the person in behalf of the whole congregation, and indeed on behalf of the whole Church.

Why shouldn't there be? I don't know if it is customary for Muslims to pray for one another. If someone approaches you and asks that you pray for him, in effect you are serving as a connection between him and God. The same applies when you ask someone to pray for you--you are practically asking that person to be a connection between you and God.

That's a totally different situation. Of course we pray for one another; yet when we need God we have the freedom to reach him on our own; third party isn't needed!

Sin isn't just a transgression against God, but indeed against the whole community. When you sin, you are saying that you do not believe in what your faith is saying, and go against it by committing sin. The priest acts as a representative then of both God and the community; I have touched on the topic of connection above. As a representative of the community, the priest gives pardon to the person in behalf of the whole congregation, and indeed on behalf of the whole Church.

I believe in apologizing to the community should you have hurt them in anyway while sinning but if it's something personal then it belongs between you and your God.

As for the priest being a representative of God that's.... I don't think God needs a representative. You should answer to him and to him only; and he is always listening and ever forgiving.

Originally posted by Enigma
That's a totally different situation. Of course we pray for one another; yet when we need God we have the freedom to reach him on our own; third party isn't needed!

How would that be a different situation, when you practically ask someone to be a third party for you, or you be a third party for someone else? This is the same hilarious loop I get among Protestants. Yes, we do have the freedom to choose whether to pray directly to God or ask someone to pray; the point here is that it is not necessarily wrong, and indeed by your own admition you do it as well.

I believe in apologizing to the community should you have hurt them in anyway while sinning but if it's something personal then it belongs between you and your God.

Sin isn't just personal, as you can see. It is an attack on a community's beliefs. For instance, as an example, you raped someone. Or let's have a much more personal sin, watching porn. Now you watched porn, no one else knew it. That is personal, and yet at the same time you disregard your faith's instructions in that porn is a sin, so in effect the sin is both personal and communal.

As for the priest being a representative of God that's.... I don't think God needs a representative. You should answer to him and to him only; and he is always listening and ever forgiving.

Again, another loop I find funny. Even Islam has its own clerics. Do they not represent God in a way? If you say they don't, then maybe you should ask them to stop teaching you the Qur'an, since what they say has no basis and no weight; they don't represent God and never will, and yet you avow that what they teach comes from God.

Look Milo,

When I talked about a third party I meant a constant one; and that is what Jesus is implying in what Moonchild posted.


"no one comes to the Father, but by Me "

THAT is where I find fault, because I think anyone can speak to his creator through prayer.

THAT is where I find fault, because I think anyone can speak to his creator through prayer.

And that should be at 5 fixed times of a day? What's God upto at other times ... ?

No offence ...

Originally posted by Enigma
When I talked about a third party I meant a constant one; and that is what Jesus is implying in what Moonchild posted.

Since that is so, we should not pray for one another then, since it is not constant?

THAT is where I find fault, because I think anyone can speak to his creator through prayer.

You really need to read up again on the issue regarding Jesus as one of the Persons in the Trinity. We've discussed that at length, so I won't repeat them all over. You'll find the topics elsewhere here.

Originally posted by Shinoda LP
And that should be at 5 fixed times of a day? What's God upto at other times ... ?

No offence ...

Hey Allah is around whenever we need him. The obligatory prayers are different than a du3a. :os

Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft
Since that is so, we should not pray for one another then, since it is not constant?





You're not getting my point. Jesus states that ONLY through him we can reach God. I don't believe that nor will I accept it.


And anyway I don't believe he'd say that either. :duh:

Hey Allah is around whenever we need him. The obligatory prayers are different than a du3a.

So, Allah needs you to pray 5 + any other dua that you have.

I wonder why an all knowing, supernatural being would want that off billions of people?

Originally posted by Enigma
You're not getting my point. Jesus states that ONLY through him we can reach God. I don't believe that nor will I accept it.

And since you don't believe it, I think this discussion would be an exercise in futility, since neither do we Christians believe in Mohammed to be a prophet, nor the Qur'an to be a holy book, nor Islam to be the true religion. As you can see, neither of us will move from our positions, so this discussion won't amount to anything.

Originally posted by Shinoda LP
So, Allah needs you to pray 5 + any other dua that you have.

I wonder why an all knowing, supernatural being would want that off billions of people?

You wonder too much :bored:


Anyway, the du3a isn't obligatory. It's just a simple prayer to Allah whenever you need it. :)

Why do you call Me good ? No one is good but God alone. Luke 18:19

I'm still waiting for the explaination of this notion!

(Quote:)
Why do you call Me good ? No one is good but God alone. Luke 18:19

I'm still waiting for the explaination of this notion![/quote]

The passage shows that Jesus is being humble. It does not mean He is not good, of course. Additionally, Jesus has not yet fully revealed Himself, up until the time to do so--which is when He has fulfilled our salvation by His death and resurrection.

Originally posted by SadLad
I'm still waiting for the explaination of this notion!

I've always taken this to mean "perfect" - that is, only God is perfect.

Originally posted by Shinoda LP
So, Allah needs you to pray 5 + any other dua that you have.

I wonder why an all knowing, supernatural being would want that off billions of people?

Allah doesn't need our prayer or our deeds, Allah is rich and we are praying for our own good as the reason human are created is to worship Allah only not created for no reason or to spend this life on useless things and then feel sorry in the hereafter. Keep this as a ring in your fingure and think about it.