yesterday my mother told me something that i couldnt believe......
she said a man married to a girl . they used to go out before marrige. then after a decade having more than 3 children the man became sooo religious so when he told a sheikh that he's married to a girl whom he used to go out with the sheikh told him to devorce her because it's haram to marry the one went out with....... well find it strange... knowing that they didnt sleep before marriage ......

now i'm still shocked from the shiekh's request....
does anyone know how true this situation is ??? and is yes it's true then please give reasons......

as far as my knowledge goes, there is no clear statment about this ... thats why the opinions may vary between one relegious scholar to another ...

the above statment was actually said by shaikh Ahmed Khalili in a FM Program which I heard...

I also know that for Suni's, its OK to marry the one u went out with (slept with or otherwise) only after u ask for true forgiveness (tuoba nasoo7a) from God ... but for Ibadhi's, I think it more strict as I understood from the Mufti !!

and God knows

i think the issue is not about dating with a girl but it is about having sex with a girl before marriage which is called zinna.

in quraan there is a statement saying that al-zaanya marries only a zani...

so if u have sex with a girl you can't marry her at all even with Touba. but she/he can marry with another person.

this is from my little knowledge.

Originally posted by IneXorabLe
i think the issue is not about dating with a girl but it is about having sex with a girl before marriage which is called zinna.

in quraan there is a statement saying that al-zaanya marries only a zani...

so if u have sex with a girl you can't marry her at all even with Touba. but she/he can marry with another person.

this is from my little knowledge.

your correct in terms that what is ment here is Zina

The Quran did state that ... but the translation of that is condrudicting with what your saying ...

what I'm trying to say is, the Quran statement doesnt mean what u think it means ... This issue has been said differently from one scholar to another ... and if u try translating what the Quran has stated above, it would mean that "if you commited adultry, u will only marry a person who also commited adultry" ... this wouldnt have created a problem if u have commited adultry with a person and marry the same person .. would it !!!

the Question was, why cant u marry the one u commited adultry with ??

again, there is no straight answer to this, different math-hab may have different views !!

Check this thread, it was discussed before : Getting married (http://www.englishsabla.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11097&highlight=Devil)

i was wondering how can the sheikh ask the man to divirce his wife after living with her for more than 10 years , besides they have children..... moreover they didnt committ adultry ... so ....

I think the members above explained it well and I also know that a man should not marry a girl with whom he had intercourses with before marriage, unless they both sincerely repent.

However, if he was never intimate with her, there is no reason not to marry her, on the contrary.

Now to my opinion, I think it is worst to divorce a woman with whom you had children, simply because of the past which you were aware of. The Sheikh advise doesn't seem wise for me...

I agree with X-PRESS .. ya3ni 3affa allah 3ama salaf .. now they have a family and they should work hard to maintain it!!

After all, Allah knows the intention of the person !

Originally posted by nana
i was wondering how can the sheikh ask the man to divirce his wife after living with her for more than 10 years , besides they have children..... moreover they didnt committ adultry ... so ....

First you need to make sure that they didn't committ adultry as you say. Religious issues need to be looked at from a religious point of view and not from emotioanl direction.

Beside that our grand "mufti" is a trusted source for "fatwa" and we are lucky that Allah gave us some one like him in Oman.

but ice tea human are subjected to do mistakes, we are not perfect.

punishment might be a reason behind such a rule... i would like to know what other sectors (sunni , shi3i) rules about this problem.

Few years after marriage with children then a divorce half way does not correct mistakes committed but agravate social code of good behaviour. Whilst it is discouraged to marry under those conditions a divorce after marriage does not mend the wrong doing.

What happens to this children and why should a separation take place for a cohesive family. Shouldn't if that be the reason that the couple continue their live long journey ?

I once heard that if one would take a woman for marriage from a place of hores than that man would be rewarded good deeds thousand times. What is the difference ? I personal slothwise believe anyone taking someone for a life-time partner under bondage of religious order then what took place before is a matter of how the couple behaves afterwards. And for the same they say be awarded. But 4sure don't expect any mufti to encourage disorder.

I think somewhere else there was an argument where it was concluded that marriage is a VERY very personal RIGHT of the couples and NO external POWER should be seen to DICTATE.

Without being sarcastic, I think they should double check on the kind of sheikh they went to !

any expert from sunni or shei3i sector to tell us what is their fatwa about such a problem.
i am not a qualified person in giving fatwas..:(

[QUOTE]Originally posted by IceTea
[B]First you need to make sure that they didn't committ adultry as you say.QUOTE]


as i mentioned that they didnt commit adultry and was asked to divorce his wife and he did.......


:eyes:

What makes you sure they didn't commit adultry? You know people don't like to admit such things to puplic.

Originally posted by IneXorabLe
but ice tea human are subjected to do mistakes, we are not perfect.



Right but mistake from mistake makes a difference, for example if a couple married for 5 years and latter the husband found that his wife is his sister (from breast feeding relation). Then he is requested to divorce her even if they have kids becuase it's haram to marry his sister in Islam.

Originally posted by IceTea
Right but mistake from mistake makes a difference, for example if a couple married for 5 years and latter the husband found that his wife is his sister (from breast feeding relation). Then he is requested to divorce her even if they have kids becuase it's haram to marry his sister in Islam.


and what the Holy Qur`An says about eating pork without knowledge of it before hand ! i wonder

And did he divorce because the Sheikh or whoever asked him to?

Wierd people! :duh:

Originally posted by Desert_Sloath
and what the Holy Qur`An says about eating pork without knowledge of it before hand ! i wonder

Without knowledge is different case, because the person didn't know it's a pork so no problem with that. But next time the person should be careful and ask about what he eats.

Originally posted by IceTea
What makes you sure they didn't commit adultry? You know people don't like to admit such things to puplic.

There is a big difference between having a relation with someone before mariage and committing 'adultery' while married to that person. Adultery can't be used outside any marital bonds.

Originally posted by IceTea
Without knowledge is different case, because the person didn't know it's a pork so no problem with that. But next time the person should be careful and ask about what he eats.


Where then does one fit in this by marrying a woman whom he didn't have knowledge she was his sister by sharring milk that came from the same source ?

Originally posted by Desert_Sloath
Where then does one fit in this by marrying a woman whom he didn't have knowledge she was his sister by sharring milk that came from the same source ?

D_S this is a different case, because it's about life, kids, society, etc. So no comparison between the two cases.

i think so

Nana u said it, Is it really 7alal?? which means u have doubt about it.... Don't take any body say with out thinking of it & compare it to the Holy Quran & sunnah.
What I know when a couple committed adultry they can't married ( This is in Abadhai mathhab) cauz of many prbs might cauz of it in the long run. But going out togeather or seeing each other before marriage doesn't allow them to stay marriage, I think this doesn't make sence cauz no harm from that , & our prophit allowed the couple to see & talk with each other before marriage.

Delicate :Without being sarcastic, I think they should double check on the kind of sheikh they went to !

I agree with her, & I add they are not always 100% right cauz they r humen like us & might be wrong.

Originally posted by IceTea
D_S this is a different case, because it's about life, kids, society, etc. So no comparison between the two cases.


Why aren't both issues a matter of life and death my dear IceTea ?

Aren't there already supposed to be children from that accidental marriage ?

I don't see any problem for one eating pork without knowing and the other marrying his adopted sister without prior knowledge.

In kiswahili we have a saying "you can not pick oil knocked to the ground". Forcing a divorce on such marriage is not logic after all the couple are supposed to share or shared more than milk that run into their veins long ago.

What is wrong ?

Why should the children made to suffer if there can always be found a satisfactory explanation ?

In Omani society and almost all arab societies it is Halal to marry your 1st cousin when in other societies it is not. Who is more blood closer to the other, the one whose relation is by blood or that with merely shared NIDO with ?

Originally posted by Desert_Sloath


In Omani society and almost all arab societies it is Halal to marry your 1st cousin when in other societies it is not. Who is more blood closer to the other, the one whose relation is by blood or that with merely shared NIDO with ?

It's haram by Quran and Hadith. Do you want the couple to live in haram the rest of their life, it's like a brother is committing adultry with his sister!. And we muslims following Allah rules who knows better then us "weak humans" what is good for us and what is bad.

Yes the childrens will suffer but this is all because of mistakes some women do when they decide to share their milk with other childs without thinking of the bad consequences in the future.

Below is an article by Shaikh al al-Qaradawi about this issue:


The foster mother: It is haram for a Muslim to marry a woman who has suckled him during his infancy, for suckling makes her like his real mother, since milk has gone into the making of his flesh and bones. Nursing consciously or unconsciously produces feelings of motherhood in a woman and of kinship in a child, and although these feelings might seem to disappear as the child grows and becomes a man, they remain hidden in the unconscious.

However, the prohibition of marriage based on fosterage is effective only if the suckling occurred before the time of weaning; that is, when milk was the primary source of food. Another condition is that the child has suckled his fill on five separate occasions, a fill being defined as when the child leaves off suckling of his own accord. After a survey of all the ahadith on this subject, the fixing of five sucklings as the minimum seems to be the preferred view.

Foster sisters: Just as a woman become a mother to a child by virtue of suckling, likewise her daughters become his sisters, her sisters his aunts, and so on. The Prophet (peace be on him) said: "What is haram by reason of genealogy is haram by reason of fosterage.'' (Reported by al-Bukhari and Muslim.)

Thus the foster-sisters, foster-aunts, and foster-nieces are all muharramat and marriage to them is permanently prohibited.

I think this is one of those controversial issues because there are extreme consequences. According to Abadhis, there is a 7adith which I can't remember word-for-word but it basically says that if a man and a woman engage in pre-marital sex then they should keep a sea between them (i.e. they should be as far away from each other as possible. In other words, it'll be 7aram if they were to get married). If anyone knows what 7adith I'm talking about then kindly post it.

With the Sunnis, if I am not mistaken, the couple actually HAVE to marry one another. So at the end of the day it's down to whichever sect you belong to I guess.

Originally posted by IceTea


Below is an article by Shaikh al al-Qaradawi about this issue:



The foster mother: It is haram for a Muslim to marry a woman who has suckled him during his infancy.




So IceTea it goes like this about the

"woman who has suckled him during his infancy".

By the time the infant has grown up our "the woman" would have been grown too old i guess.


So you think. such rule may have applid to HRH Prince Charles if he was a muslim ? I mean having relationship with an old woman like that Bocker something whose name I have forgotten ?

Originally posted by nana
does anyone know how true this situation is ??? and is yes it's true then please give reasons......

I have heard of something like that to me its seems like creating two wrongs to make a right?! I am not the person to judge in such cases. There is something called commen sense which should be considered as to the time these people have been married and the affect on thier children.

Basically everyone now a days should not marry someone they saw or went out with! You might as well end up being a monk

Originally posted by Desert_Sloath
So IceTea it goes like this about the

"woman who has suckled him during his infancy".

By the time the infant has grown up our "the woman" would have been grown too old i guess.


D_S everything possible, lets assume the lady share her milk with this child when she was 18 years old, so when he reach 20 years old it means she is 38 years old. She as you can see it's possible for him to marry her.


Originally posted by Desert_Sloath

So you think. such rule may have applid to HRH Prince Charles if he was a muslim ? I mean having relationship with an old woman like that Bocker something whose name I have forgotten ?

Islamic rules should apply to everyone. But is this old woman his mother by sharing milk :rolleyes:

Originally posted by IceTea


D_S everything possible, lets assume the lady share her milk with this child when she was 18 years old, so when he reach 20 years old it means she is 38 years old. She as you can see it's possible for him to marry her.


[/B]

I thought it was about marrying " the woman who 'suckled' " him with milk. How delicate the rule could be for Sloth not to understand.

With due respect PERHAPS i should start tracing the rules from 'source' Mr Adam our great greatest grand-Papa the very first vintage made of creators "own very hands" was he a muslim ?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by IceTea


Islamic rules should apply to everyone. But is this old woman his mother by sharing milk :rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE






















]

subhanalah i was talking a bout this with my mom and yes she told me hara and i got shoucked and tryed to ask here a gain to make sure you know i didnt got the answer so its very nice of you to talk about this topic in my openion ithink they should forget that and go on in their life

Originally posted by Silky SouL


in my openion ithink they should forget that and go on in their life


i tot, totaly agree with you SS ! after all we sometimes drink cow's and camel's mild and we end up eating them :eek: how come we slaughter our mothers i wonder :p that rule is a left over of the time when slavery was the order of the day in this part of the world so ? 2speak.

Islam encourages 'ijtihad' and Prophet Muhammad PBUH urged us to seek knowledge even as far as China. That particular rule has to be furtherly explained to me before i brand it as a jewish encrochment in our rules.

those thinking people are so shrewd and i don't rule the possibility of their penetration into the system when sloths are busy with other things :color:

Originally posted by Silky SouL
subhanalah i was talking a bout this with my mom and yes she told me hara and i got shoucked and tryed to ask here a gain to make sure you know i didnt got the answer so its very nice of you to talk about this topic in my openion ithink they should forget that and go on in their life


well that's what i thought too but wanted to know more opinions