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Allah has sent down the Quran and He will preserve it
Asalamu alaikum :

here is an open challenge to all.

Let us throw all available copies of all the Holy books we have today in the ocean or burn them all (including, Bible, Torah, Quran, Gita, Vedas, every holy book available, in all its forms, printed, electronic etc.). Then let us call people from each religion to reproduce their Holy Books if they can . I am sure none will be able to reproduce even part of their
books and I just wonder how many different fractions/versions they will produce.

But Muslims from more than 20 countries and from countless
nationalities, cultures will produce the same Quran, chapter by
chapter, verse by verse, letter by letter and you will not find one single discrepancy!!!! Thus is the Quran protected. As Allah Says in the Holy Quran

"Indeed it is We who have sent down the reminder (the Qur'an), and indeed it is Us who shall preserve it" (Surah Al-Hijr 15:9).


Thus the Quran remains pure even after 14 centuries and will remain so forever, for it resides in the hearts and minds of millions of Muslims. In this is a clear sign for people with intelligence, for people who reflect. Till date, I do not know any person from other religion who has memorized his holy book !!! The scientific facts presented in The Quran attests its divinity and rules out any doubt that the Quran is man-made because it cannot just be the creation of any human, it just cannot be, impossible.

Of all the acclaimed masterpieces that the world has seen, nothing can be compared to the book known as the Qur'an. Millions have become Muslims upon simply hearing a verse from this amazing book, yet still the majority knows nothing of it. The Qur'an is the Final Revelation from the Creator to humanity. It was revealed in the year 610 CE to the Prophet Muhammed (saws), and completed over a period of 23 years.
These23 years of revelation resulted in a book which comprised of 114 chapters and 6,666 verses. All of this was to become the primary source of law for the whole of mankind to live and die by.
The impact of this book is such that Allah says :

"Had We revealed this Qur'an upon a mountain, surely you would have seen it humble itself and crumble out of the fear of Allah. Such are the parables We put forward to mankind so that they may reflect" (Surah Al-Hashr 59:21)


thus ,Allah has promised that he will protect our Quran , and he fulfilled his commitment.



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Great thread
thanx for sharing

Now this is completely ridiulous, for the simple reason that not even most Muslims can memorize a whole book, let alone any person. It's like the Evangelical Protestant claiming to know the whole Bible by being able to recite a few verses--they think they know the whole Bible, yet they don't. The same is true with most Muslims: they can recite a few verses, but that doesn't prove squat. Most often, you will find, these verses are only the key verses, which is the core beliefs of a religion. These are the ones most often used, and so one would think they know each and every line. There might some Muslims who know the whole Qur'an, just as there are some Jews who know the Torah, or some Christians who know the whole Bible, etc. Practicality and common sense dicates that the majority are not even close to memorizing 1/4 of the whole Qur'an.

Nor was the Qur'an unchanged, as we have demonstrated and debated so many times already. Look at the other topics here before making another one that practically rehashes the same old lines, the same old arguments, which no Muslim (and that is no exaggeration--anyone can look up at the other threads here and the other religion forums in this board for proof) has reven been able to defend. Instead each and every one made the same old line--and left the issue about this hanging, "until we (Muslims) can find a suitable answer" (I'm not holding my breath).

Just wanted to say that many Muslim people memorize the whole Quran and they are hundreds if not thousands. There are lots Muslims who have memorized chapters of the Quran as well. Muslims memorize the holy Quran because they get to read vreses or chapters of it every day in their life. I'm just wondering how many christens in this world have memorized the bible or even care to read it.

Amazing thread... and as SadLad said many Muslims have memorised the Quran.. not one or two,, but millions of them,, mashalla.

Has anyone on this Sabla memorized the Quran? Do you know anyone PERSONALLY who has?

Originally posted by MoonChild
Has anyone on this Sabla memorized the Quran? Do you know anyone PERSONALLY who has?

Not me. But I know MANY AND MANY. Those Shiekhs who read in Makka and Madina, the ones who guide the prayers have memorised the Quran, one of them is Al Sudais. The person who leads the prayer in the mosque in front of our house have memorised the Quran too.

Originally posted by A7MED
[B][COLOR=sienna][FONT=courier new]...
here is an open challenge to all.

What a silly thing to say. As if any one person could collect all the books in the world and destroy them. If the non-muslims on this board fail to take up your challenge, will you then claim some sort of victory? :rolleyes:

I am sure none will be able to reproduce even part of their books

On the contrary, there are large communities of christians and jews who diligently memorize scripture - a quick Google search will pull up on-line "support" groups for doing so, with plans to memorize a "2 books a year", memorization tips and techniques, etc. If called upon to "reproduce" the memorized scripture, of course there will be translation variances, as most learn them in a tongue that has meaning to them rather than going back to the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek.

But Muslims from more than 20 countries and from countless
nationalities, cultures will produce the same Quran, chapter by
chapter, verse by verse, letter by letter and you will not find one single discrepancy!!!! Thus is the Quran protected.

I believe that the last time this was done, Uthman weeded out the discrepencies and burned the originals, thus obliterating forever the evidence of what had gone before. It's nice for you if you believe that this is what will happen, but that doesn't constitute proof...

Till date, I do not know any person from other religion who has memorized his holy book !!!

How hard have you looked? And do you know anyone PERSONALLY (not hearsay or rumor) who has memorized the Quran?

Millions have become Muslims upon simply hearing a verse from this amazing book, yet [b]still the majority knows nothing of it.

And you think this is a good thing?!

Originally posted by Delicate
Not me. But I know MANY AND MANY. Those Shiekhs who read in Makka and Madina, the ones who guide the prayers have memorised the Quran, one of them is Al Sudais. The person who leads the prayer in the mosque in front of our house have memorised the Quran too.

Well, that's good. I didn't really expect anyone in their teens or 20's to have done it, I was just wondering if it was "real" or just something ya'll say for effect :)

then you really could test the hypothesis, by having a couple of hundred Sheikhs dictate the entire Quran on tape, then comparing them. It would be interesting to see the results :)

One more thing... My brother who hasn't reached his teen life yet has memorised eight chapters from the Quran, Mashalla!!


All possible :)

Originally posted by MoonChild
Has anyone on this Sabla memorized the Quran? Do you know anyone PERSONALLY who has?
Well, pesonally I have memorized some chapters of it, but I know many people in my villiage who have memorized almost the whole book or at least most of it take as an example my cousin who is 13 years old now.

Originally posted by MoonChild

then you really could test the hypothesis, by having a couple of hundred Sheikhs dictate the entire Quran on tape, then comparing them. It would be interesting to see the results :)
Actually, there are already hundreds of sheikhs who have made tapes in which they recite the entire Holy Quran but I cant see any diffrences in their recitation regarding grammer, cotent or even pronuncition. Maybe the only differnce is on the quality of the Sheikh's throat. ( how good the Sheikh's voice is)

Cool :c2:

Well, Christians do it too... now ya know :kewl:

Originally posted by SadLad
Just wanted to say that many Muslim people memorize the whole Quran and they are hundreds if not thousands.

Now you say it must be hundreds if not thousands, when before you agree to what was posted above, which in essence says it is practically all of the whole Muslim world. It does get fewer in number.

There are lots Muslims who have memorized chapters of the Quran as well.

That's not the whole Qur'an then.

I'm just wondering how many christens in this world have memorized the bible or even care to read it.

Don't wonder--there are many who do so. These are priests, pastors, seminarians, theologians, Bible scholars, etc. who study the Bible diligently. As well ordinary men and women who read the Bible on a daily basis. So the balance is actually made--there are some Christians and Muslims who have memorized their holy books in whole, but certainly not all have done so, or would even care to do so. What is important for most is how one follows and obeys his religion, not how much one knows of his book.

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Hi a gian ...

I wanna add that a person who memorized whole the Quran, It is actualy a gift from ALLAH to him or her ...

I have heard about a girl from Oman, she memorized whole the Quran in just a week (MAZING) .... when I heard that news I realy wondered who can she memorized who the Quran in a weed and in spite we read the Quran in years and we can't memorize it ... Then I knew that was a gift from ALLAH to her becuz she trusts ALLAH and that was her prize, it greater that nobal prize ...

OH , loOok who much the beneficent of ALLAH

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Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft
Now you say it must be hundreds if not thousands, when before you agree to what was posted above, which in essence says it is practically all of the whole Muslim world. It does get fewer in number.

Is it really saying that?


That's not the whole Qur'an then.
[/B]
Did I say that all muslims memorize the whole Holy Quran? i said a lot of Muslims do that not all.....
Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft
Don't wonder--there are many who do so. These are priests, pastors, seminarians, theologians, Bible scholars, etc. who study the Bible diligently. As well ordinary men and women who read the Bible on a daily basis. So the balance is actually made--there are some Christians and Muslims who have memorized their holy books in whole, but certainly not all have done so, or would even care to do so. What is important for most is how one follows and obeys his religion, not how much one knows of his book. [/B]
U might be right there, but generally speaking, Christians don't really care to memorize or even read their book. You can hardly find a Christian who memorizes 15% of the bible or even read it that's while Muslims read vreses or chappters of their book every day. Besides, you can almost find no Muslim who doese not read at least vreses of the Holy Quran every day since Muslims at least read the Holy Quran five times a day (during their prayers time) .
Mind My English!

Originally posted by SadLad
Is it really saying that?

To wit:

[quote]But Muslims from more than 20 countries and from countless nationalities, cultures will produce the same Quran.... and Thus the Quran remains pure even after 14 centuries and will remain so forever, for it resides in the hearts and minds of millions of Muslims...

In effect, the thread starter is trying to say that all, or certainly most, Muslims know the whole Qur'an as opposed to followers of other religions and their holy books.


[b]Did I say that all muslims memorize the whole Holy Quran? i said a lot of Muslims do that not all.....

You agreed in your very first post, did you not?

[COLOR=deeppink]U might be right there, but generally speaking, Christians don't really care to memorize or even read their book.[//color]

Again, wrong. Christians care a lot about the Bible, and read it a lot daily.

You can hardly find a Christian who memorizes 15% of the bible or even read it that's while Muslims read vreses or chappters of their book every day.

Memorization is never the point of Christianity--it is living the Faith, not merely studying it. It is well and good to study one's book, but if one does not live it, then that knowledge is nothing but head knowledge. There's much more to religion than simply knowing.

Besides, you can almost find no Muslim who doese not read at least vreses of the Holy Quran every day since Muslims at least read the Holy Quran five times a day (during their prayers time) .

The same is true with most Christians, in fact.

Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft
and

In effect, the thread starter is trying to say that all, or certainly most, Muslims know the whole Qur'an as opposed to followers of other religions and their holy books.[/font]

I can't see it saying that but also that might be because of my poor English. If the Writer stated that all or most Muslims have memorized the whole Holy Quran then he is of course mistaken because I would just say that lots lots Muslims have memorized it.

Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft

You agreed in your very first post, did you not?


Well...yes I did agree with it in my first post but mind you that I made it clear in my next posts before you came and jump to your conclusion.
Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft

Again, wrong. Christians care a lot about the Bible, and read it a lot daily.

It's my first time to hear that. I have lots Christine friends and never heard such thing from them and I remember 2 years back a christen family paid us a visit and during the visit we talked a little about religion and for my astonishment the father of the family told me that it's not important to pray or go to church as far as one is doing good deeds, respecting others and harming no one but also maybe I was with the wrong christens
Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft

Memorization is never the point of Christianity--it is living the Faith, not merely studying it. It is well and good to study one's book, but if one does not live it, then that knowledge is nothing but head knowledge. There's much more to religion than simply knowing.

And I think the point which the writer was trying to deliver to us here was that because so many Muslims care to memorize the Holy Quran we can grantee that this book has never been changed and will never be.
Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft
and
The same is true with most Christians, in fact.
Are you sure about what you are saying here?!
Peace

Sorry to say that as far I know there is small differences in Quaran which Siah and Sunni follow.

Can some one tell me about it please?
:confused:

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Hey there ...


WHY r u fighting ???

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Brother Hasnain......
As far as I know, all the copies of the Quran which you can find in this earth are the same, but there are some few diffrencecs in the interpretation of the Quran between the Islamic sects.

Originally posted by SadLad
Brother Hasnain......
As far as I know, all the copies of the Quran which you can find in this earth are the same, but there are some few diffrencecs in the interpretation of the Quran between the Islamic sects.


Thanks SadLad for the post, may be I was misleaded.


Regards

Originally posted by SadLad
I can't see it saying that but also that might be because of my poor English. If the Writer stated that all or most Muslims have memorized the whole Holy Quran then he is of course mistaken because I would just say that lots lots Muslims have memorized it.

Yeah, I think it is your poor English because you now say that he is mistaken, and at the same time say that lots of Muslims have memorized it, in effect contradicting yourself. You know I am just ragging you about it (your English). :D

Well...yes I did agree with it in my first post but mind you that I made it clear in my next posts before you came and jump to your conclusion.

Well, since you agreed then I did not jump into any premature conclusion on my part. It's just that later on you clarified your position after my comment. But that's nitpicking.

It's my first time to hear that. I have lots Christine friends and never heard such thing from them and I remember 2 years back a christen family paid us a visit and during the visit we talked a little about religion and for my astonishment the father of the family told me that it's not important to pray or go to church as far as one is doing good deeds, respecting others and harming no one but also maybe I was with the wrong christens

Praying, going to church, reading the Bible--all are important, but what is most important is how you live the Faith. This is universal, not just in Christianity. You can be a learned Muslim, even a scholar, but if you do not live your faith, all you have is head knowledge.

And I think the point which the writer was trying to deliver to us here was that because so many Muslims care to memorize the Holy Quran we can grantee that this book has never been changed and will never be.

If that is his only point then there is no debate. But to say that it is only the Qur'an, which in effect is what he is saying, is uncorrupted or would remain so would not be exactly correct nor true. This we have discussed in other threads already, and have been soundly refuted. So many followers of other faiths care so much about their holy books as well, and so they will also preserve it as best they could. As you can see it is not only Islam.

[b]Are you sure about what you are saying here?!/B]

Yes, and yes.

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Hey there

I said stop fighting or I will never post a thread here

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Originally posted by A7MED
...I said stop fighting or I will never post a thread here...

It's called a debate, or discussion. It happens all the time, so don't worry about it.

Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft
Yeah, I think it is your poor English because you now say that he is mistaken, and at the same time say that lots of Muslims have memorized it, in effect contradicting yourself. You know I am just ragging you about it (your English). :D

I said that if the writer really indicates that all Muslims have memorized the whole Holy Quran (mind you that I don't think he indicates any such things) then he is mistaken. And in my first posts I said that lots (hundreds if not thousands) have memorized the holy Quran. So, how the hell i'm contradcting myself here!!? strange way of thinking
By the way, dont you think that any one who thinks or come to think that all the Muslims in this world can memorize the whole Holy Quran is a dumb person. You should directly understood that the writer didn't mean such thingsunless you are a stupid dumb person and personally, I don't think you are that dumb.


Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft

Well, since you agreed then I did not jump into any premature conclusion on my part. It's just that later on you clarified your position after my comment. But that's nitpicking.
[/B]

Well, I agreed to the topic and then rememberd that there might be dumb members here who don't understand things unless they were made concrete for them so...
Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft
Praying, going to church, reading the Bible--all are important, but what is most important is how you live the Faith. This is universal, not just in Christianity. You can be a learned Muslim, even a scholar, but if you do not live your faith, all you have is head knowledge.
[/B]
But they didn't say that Praying, going to church, reading the Bible all are important!!! They said, they are not.
Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft
If that is his only point then there is no debate. But to say that it is only the Qur'an, which in effect is what he is saying, is uncorrupted or would remain so would not be exactly correct nor true. This we have discussed in other threads already, and have been soundly refuted. So many followers of other faiths care so much about their holy books as well, and so they will also preserve it as best they could. As you can see it is not only Islam.
[/B]

Passed
Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft
Yes, and yes. [/B]
If it yes then I have nothing to argue here.

Originally posted by SadLad
I said that if the writer really indicates that all Muslims have memorized the whole Holy Quran (mind you that I don't think he indicates any such things) then he is mistaken.

I have already quoted where he indicated such things. It might not be direct, but then there is such a thing as implying what you mean. Meaning, you might not say it directly, but then the thought is there in the message. So yes, he has said as much just by reading his post.

And in my first posts I said that lots (hundreds if not thousands) have memorized the holy Quran. So, how the hell i'm contradcting myself here!!?

First, because you agreed to what he posted, and when I posted that it could not be so, you backtracked and said you merely meant only hundreds, so in there you already contradicted to what you agreed with earlier.

By the way, dont you think that any one who thinks or come to think that all the Muslims in this world can memorize the whole Holy Quran is a dumb person.

Now where did you get such an idea? I only said the notion is ridiculous or, rather, not feasible, and certainly not realistic. It doesn't necessarily mean the person saying it is dumb.

But they didn't say that Praying, going to church, reading the Bible all are important!!! They said, they are not.

Again, there are some who think this way. It would help meeting other Christians first and get their assessment on this. Most Christians agree that praying, going to church, etc. are important. However, it should also be made clear that the most important point is how one live one's Faith, not merely just knowing about it or attending its rites.

Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft
I have already quoted where he indicated such things. It might not be direct, but then there is such a thing as implying what you mean. Meaning, you might not say it directly, but then the thought is there in the message. So yes, he has said as much just by reading his post.


Seems that you are too concrete.!! well if I told you that Somalis were poor people. Am I right?.. of course I’m right even though not all the Somalis are poor but a lot of the Somalis are.
Well, it's the same with that writer I guess. He writes "Thus the Quran remains pure even after 14 centuries and will remain so forever, for it resides in the hearts and minds of millions of Muslims..." meaning many or lots Muslims and not necessary all and the same thing applies to the next sentence
"quote]But Muslims from more than 20 countries and from countless nationalities, cultures will produce the same Quran."
so i guess you had faced some difficulties understanding the writers' opinion until I made thing concretes to you.

I want to hear your response regarding what i have said above then we may discuss the other things you mentioned there.

Originally posted by SadLad
Well, it's the same with that writer I guess. He writes "Thus the Quran remains pure even after 14 centuries and will remain so forever, for it resides in the hearts and minds of millions of Muslims..." meaning many or lots Muslims and not necessary all and the same thing applies to the next sentence "But Muslims from more than 20 countries and from countless nationalities, cultures will produce the same Quran."
so i guess you had faced some difficulties understanding the writers' opinion until I made thing concretes to you.

You'll have to look at the context in which the post is made. The meaning is really very clear, and in this regard he tries to demonstrate that many or even most Muslims can replicate the Qur'an word for word--an impossibility. It's demonstrated already even by scientific experiment that a message passed on will change its meaning, order, etc. the further it goes away from the originator. The same then can be shown here. So even if we should say many or most, it still won't cut it. Like I said, the most one can say is that some might be able to do it, but certainly not a majority will.

Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft
Now this is completely ridiulous, for the simple reason that not even most Muslims can memorize a whole book, let alone any person. It's like the Evangelical Protestant claiming to know the whole Bible by being able to recite a few verses--they think they know the whole Bible, yet they don't.

Your comparison between the Quran and the Bible is not valid. When you read the Quran with full concentration and complete submission to Allah you well see it's verses entering your heart and brain easly becuase it's God words and not mixed with human words which is the case of today Bible changed many times.

Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft
You'll have to look at the context in which the post is made. The meaning is really very clear, and in this regard he tries to demonstrate that many or even most Muslims can replicate the Qur'an word for word--an impossibility.

I will agree with you you that he was trying to say that many Muslims but I will never agree with you that he was trying to say most Muslims can do that.
B.T.W weren't you insisted in your above posts that the Writer indicated or said in an indirect way that all or most Muslims can do that. I can see you trying to withdraw little by little. Is it because you are not sure about yourself?!!


Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft It's demonstrated already even by scientific experiment that a message passed on will change its meaning, order, etc. the further it goes away from the originator. The same then can be shown here. So even if we should say many or most, it still won't cut it. Like I said, the most one can say is that some might be able to do it, but certainly not a majority will. [/B]
If something is kept or stored in books then maybe that thing will be changed or lost when those books are burned or lost, but if something was saved in hundreds or thousands people's minds and hearts beside being stored in leathers leaves, and then in books then I think it will never ever be changed.

Originally posted by SadLad
I will agree with you you that he was trying to say that many Muslims but I will never agree with you that he was trying to say most Muslims can do that.
B.T.W weren't you insisted in your above posts that the Writer indicated or said in an indirect way that all or most Muslims can do that. I can see you trying to withdraw little by little. Is it because you are not sure about yourself?!!

Nope, I am sure of it. What I am not sure of is what the poster wants to achieve in this. You can then go on and on about your little delusion that the poster does not mean most Muslims, yet I have shown you already that that is precisely his point.

If something is kept or stored in books then maybe that thing will be changed or lost when those books are burned or lost, but if something was saved in hundreds or thousands people's minds and hearts beside being stored in leathers leaves, and then in books then I think it will never ever be changed.

But since there is no way of verifying whether or not it has been changed, due to it being conveniently burned, then how can one verify it to be true? Add as well to the fact that the penalty is severe for even attempting to translate the Qur'an to any other language, then you can see why it is indeed "preserved"; it was not preserved out of love, but out of fear. Now that is different. As you can see, you only preserve it because to write it any other way have dire consequences, and I think that would be death or banishment. It is not then out of love that you preserve it, but one of fear.

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Milliardo Peacecraft

It does not seems like adebate or a discussion ... actualy it seems that u will gat a nice BoX from that guy ...


Ok ... Keep going and see what will happen

also be here with ur self cuz I said I will never post a thread here...

Catch u later

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Originally posted by A7MED
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Milliardo Peacecraft

It does not seems like adebate or a discussion ... actualy it seems that u will gat a nice BoX from that guy ...


Ok ... Keep going and see what will happen

also be here with ur self cuz I said I will never post a thread here...

Catch u later

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... Hey man!
What's wrong with you?!
We are just debating and exploring each other's religion. There is nothing wrong if we had some different points of view and tried proving that the other side is wrong; otherwise, how are we going to solve our problems and come to term that we all agree upon.
Calm down and inshaAllah we will not ever offend each other or even hate.
It's an open forum where there are people from diffrente nations and religons.
So disagreement is some thing expected.
Peace