The Pointlessness of Prayer

It is common practice among Christians to pray for people who are sick or are in need. Suppose that a few Christians know a boy who has cancer. The disease is inoperable and untreatable in this case, so our Christian friends pray for the boy. A few weeks later, the boy dies. This is a familiar scenario which is often encountered in the creationist world. One can't help but wonder why the praying didn't work. Was the boy a sinner, and therefore deserved to die? Did his friends simply not pray hard enough? Probably not. The explanation that most Christians use is that it was not God's will for the boy to live. In other words, written in God's big book of how things are going to happen, Timmy is supposed to reach the end of the line at such and such date. At first glance, this seems to make sense. For whatever mysterious reason, it was the boy's time to go, and because of that, no amount of prayers could change it. Most Christians agree to this reasoning.

But let's back up a bit here. We said that no amount of prayers could change the outcome of the boy with cancer situation because it is God's will that the boy die. This actually says a lot more than you might think. This means that we can't change something that is in God's plan. If God wants the boy to die, then he is going to die. Doesn't this make praying pointless? Doesn't this mean that you can't change what God is going to do, so it doesn't matter if you pray or not? At this point of the argument, most Christians tell me that prayer convinces God to change his mind about his divine plan. Here, I would like to take a small detour to prove that God cannot change his mind, due to the fact that he is perfect. The reason is simply this: there is always a best choice in any situation. For someone to change their mind, they have to deem their new choice better than their old one. Suppose, for example, that God thought that one plus one equals three. God then changes his mind to thinking that one plus one equals two. This situation is impossible because for God to change his mind to the best choice (one plus one equals two), he must have previously had a worse choice. This math situation cannot happen because God must be wrong in the first place. For him to change to thinking that one plus one equals two, he must first think that one plus one equals something else, which is wrong. God is never wrong, remember? He always knows the best choice, because he is omniscient. God always selects the best choice from the start. As a result, God can never change his mind. Granted, sometimes the best choice is only slightly better than the other choice, but it doesn't matter. All questions have a best answer. It is impossible to calculate the best answer to a question for us because we must look at every single tiny effect on everything else, but for an omniscient god, this is no difficult task at all. God always makes the best choice, because he is never wrong. Every choice he makes is perfect -- there is no better choice. Now, let's get back to the original argument.

I made that point to show that God cannot change his mind. The relevance to the argument is that God cannot be convinced to make a different choice. So let's get this straight: if God's plan is set in place, and God's mind is set in place, then how can prayer change anything? There exist two kinds of situations: (1) someone prays for something that is not according to God's plan, and (2) someone prays for something that is according to God's plan. As we've just discussed, praying for something that is not according to his plan is pointless, because we can't change his mind about anything, and what God wants to do is already set in place. The second situation, where someone prays for something that is according to God's plan, is equally pointless. If something is according to God's plan prior to the prayer, then it is going to happen regardless of whether you pray for it or not. If God wants some kid with cancer to live, then praying for him is pointless because before you even kneel down in front of your bed or in your church, God has already decided that the boy will live. What's the point of praying for something that is going to happen anyway? It's like praying for the law of gravity. It's going to happen anyway, so why pray for it? In both of the situations, prayer is pointless.

Either your prayer is against God's will and therefore won't happen because you can't change his mind, or your prayer is according to God's will but doesn't make a difference because God's will would have been carried out anyway. Prayer is pointless. It's a waste of time.

Does this make any sense?

Zsia!!
fatak

Fatak, nice topic.

However, you forgot one important thing ..God knows that you are going to pray and that you are going to be scincer to him and he would know what is best for the child and make him live for example if that was the best!!

understanding the concept of prayers is not easy. As you said, everything is pre set so our prayers dont count to change whats going to happen, but praying or not and following god is also preset !

Plus, prayers is not only about changing what happenes. It has faar more complex psychological effects. When a situation arasies, you see people who pray are calmer than those who dont ..

Originally posted by fatak
The Pointlessness of Prayer


Prayer is pointless. It's a waste of time.

Does this make any sense?

Zsia!!
fatak


No in fact the above topic does not make any sense. If praying for a sick is basic that he should get better then prayers won't make it work unless the sick himself does the apeal for himself. What other people's prayers does is psychological boost of the sick to feel a sooth over his sufferings. Out right cure on the basis of prayers and without the will of a patient himself is and I agree with you fatak as a waste of time, but aa created beings we ought not to loose faith that if with such psychological boost from those around us could not work if the patient has a will to hold on life but again not guaranteed. Why then prayers can not guarantee a cure ? the answer is simple if that was the case there would be only few deads of natuaral cause today because their loved ones would have applied the formula to hold onto them. Prophets would have been still around taking doses of prayers for their badly needed guidance the world finds itself in today then was in primitive time immemorial :rolleyes: So it is always better for one to fulfill his part lest a day comes when he utter prayers when it is too late cause he neglected his duty then. "One is accountable for the intentions and not wishes." "Inna al`A'amal beniyat."


So, let us keep praying for the well being of our world.

Prayer is not necessary to God, unless you believe that She is willing to change Her mind based on the desires of Her followers :) However, it is one of many ways that Mankind can stay focused on what is good in the world and him/her self, thus helping avoid what is evil.

that is, prayer is useful to the one who is praying. And if a sick person knows that others are praying for him, it gives him a psychological boost - we can't prove any further connection.

This is a tricky question which has bedeviled philosophers over the centuries. Christians believe that praying to the angels and saints, the Virgin Mary or St. Jude, for their intercession with the Almighty may somehow influence The Big Guy´s decision making process and prevent a child dying of leukemia.

If one believes in a unitary deity who knows us all individually and can remember what it was you did when you were 14 on that Saturday when you should have been doing something else, then prayer has indeed an internal logic of its own. If, on the other hand, you believe that when you die you simply stop living then - like all other religious practices - it appears to be irredeemably futile.

I think Gods ongoing projects are not changeable by praying. But convincing her by Prayer may change the upcoming events.