"Careful, Boss is here".




I was really astonished reading the bible when I found some verses that fore-spke about our prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).
This verse speaks about raising up a prophet who later came to be Muhammad.


Deutronomy 18:18
I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Any christian debator?

You do know that there have been a lot of prophets after Moses, don't you? Isaiah is one of them. So no, it does not even refer to Mohammed, since in the first place Israel then and now do not recognize Mohammed to be one of them.

"Careful, Boss is here".



First of all, are u chri or jew?

And, does that mean u beleive Ishaia was the prophet meant?

I am Christian. And no, I didn't say it is Isaiah who's being pointed at here. All I'm saying that there have been a lot of prophets after Moses--Isaiah, Jeremiah, Jonah were all prophets to Israel. I highly doubt the verse would pertain to Mohammed alone, nor would that even be acceptible among the Jews, or Christians for that matter.

Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft
I am Christian. And no, I didn't say it is Isaiah who's being pointed at here. All I'm saying that there have been a lot of prophets after Moses--Isaiah, Jeremiah, Jonah were all prophets to Israel. I highly doubt the verse would pertain to Mohammed alone, nor would that even be acceptible among the Jews, or Christians for that matter.

If he is not profet Mohammed PBUH the one pointed then it will not be mentioned in the Quran that his name is written in their books. This prove that he is indeed the one, simple as that.

"Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet, the Ummi whom they find mentioned in the Torah and the Gospel which are with them. He enjoins on them good and forbids them evil and makes lawful for them the good things and forbids them the bad things and remove from them their burdens and shackles that were upon them. So those who shall believe in him and honour and support him and help him and follow the light that has been sent down with him - these shall prosper.'"

Another one:

"And call to mind when Jesus, son of Mary, said, `O children of Israel, surely, I am ALLAH's Messenger unto you, fulfilling that which is before me of the prophecies of the Torah, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger who will come after me, his name being Ahmad. And when he came to them with clear proofs, they said, this is manifest sorcery.'".

I don't know what more then this you want, the truth is clear like a sunny day without single cloud.

Like I said, Icebag, since Jewish Israel does not subscribe to the Qur'an then or now, the Qur'an as far as this verse is concerned is not acceptable, nor would Judaism even accept it as such. Since the Qur'an is but a corruption of the Old Testament manuscripts (yes, it is a corruption, or else Judaism would have accepted it), then it is invalid. The Qur'an's purpose is to simply uphold MOhammed and Islam; it does not necessarily reflect to the realities of the Old Testament as known to both Christianity and Judaism.

''Judaism is a religion that came for the Hebrews, the children of Israel, who descended from Abraham through Isaac. Allah sent for them Moses with the Holy Torah, the suhuf, and the Tablets.''
Source: http://www.missionislam.com

The Torah, did mention prophets to come and prophet Mohammed PBUH. It had in it, prior to many changes that occurred, mentioning of the laws that the coming prophet (Mohammed) will bring. There is a mention of Abraham and his son Ishmael, and that Allah has accepted Abraham’s prayers to give blessings to the offspring of his son.

Nope, it does not mention Mohammed to be one of the prophets, no matter what your "scholars" told you to believe. One sure way to know is that Judaism does not (and again I will emphatically say this) recognize Mohammed or Islam, and we can see this in the Old Testament manuscripts. Even the Dead Sea Scrolls make no mention of Mohammed, Islam, or Ahmed.

Milliardo Peacecraft

she believes in all prophets except the prophet Mohammed (s)!!!!
:confused:

SR, for once, you are right.

Not just MP, but me as well.

Originally posted by sanwin25
SR, for once, you are right.

Not just MP, but me as well.



Why?

Why what ?

Originally posted by sanwin25
Why what ?

why do u believe in all prophets except prophet mohammed (s) ??

1) Because I do not believe he was a Prophet.
2) Because I do not like many of the things he did.
3) Because I do not like many of the things he did not do.

and many many more.

Would you like me to continue ?

Originally posted by sanwin25
1) Because I do not believe he was a Prophet.

still asken u WHY?

2) Because I do not like many of the things he did.
give examples !!like what ?

3) Because I do not like many of the things he did not do.
give example . like what ?

and many many more.

Would you like me to continue ?

yes please

Some more ?

How about, because I am not a Muslim ?

I have no time to waste discussing things with you anyway Silver Ring.

Originally posted by sanwin25
Some more ?

How about, because I am not a Muslim ?

I have no time to waste discussing things with you anyway Silver Ring.
i am sure you have .. thats why you are in here ...


anyway .. you cant mention any thing

Which part of "I have no time to waste discussing things with you anyway Silver Ring" did you not understand ?

I would not like to waste my time discussing things with you, Silver Ring.

I hope you get it now.

Originally posted by sanwin25
Which part of "I have no time to waste discussing things with you anyway Silver Ring" did you not understand ?

I would not like to waste my time discussing things with you, Silver Ring.

I hope you get it now.

so dont post some thing you wouldn't like to discuss again

"Careful, Boss is here".

It's not very strange that these christians dont beleive on Muhammad (pbuh), but what's strange is their lack of information and reading.
Didnt your preists tell u that u christians beleive that Jesus is the prophet being spoken about?
Hh!

Besides, it seems that u r all week at history, aren't ya?
The verse specified the prophet will be "from among their brethren" not from among themselves.

It's widely known that Abraham(pbuh) had two wives; Hagar who bore Ishmael and Sarah who - after 13 years of Ishmael's birth - bore Isaac. That means:

1) Ishmael and Isaac are brothers and therfore the children of the one are the brethren of the children of the other. In other words, and because jews are descendants of Isaac and Arabs are descendants of Ishmael, Arabs(descendants of Ishmael- the broth. of Isaac) are the brethren of jews. Hence the prophet in the verse can be no one but the prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

2) The bible itself confirms this by saying: (and he( Ishmael) shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.) Genesis 16:12

Which prophet is a descendant of Ishmael except Muhammad(pbuh), and was from among Jews' brethren, not from among themselves or from "the children of Israel" , so called in the bible.

There's yet another condition mentioned in the verse; that this prophet MUST be LIKE Moses.

I continue In Shaa' Allah

"Careful, Boss is here".

Another piece of evidence is found in the bible:

Isaiah 29:12
(And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.)

This verse says:
1) The book (This is one of Quraan's names - also Reading - Recitation - the arabic word is Al-Kitaab'The Book") is given to the prophet and the Angel commands him to Read.

2)The prophet responds that he is not learned (unable to read or recite because he is not learned or unlettered- as if saying: how can I read- recite while I am an unlettered.

If u have read about Islam u will definately have come across the story of Ghar Hira' (Hira cave) where the prophet used to go for meditation. One time, the Angel Gabriel came and commanded him to (Read - Recite) saying Iqraa'.This happened two times and in every time the prophet responded with ( Maa Ana Bi Qaarie' -ãÇ ÃäÇ ÈÞÇÑÆ) the literal translation of I Am Not Learned!

Does this apply to anybody on earth except Muhammad (pbuh)?

Why do u deny verses from ur own Holy book?

Note: plz tell me how to quote from other threads.

"Careful, Boss is here".



Another piece of evidence from (Collins Gem Dictionary of the Bible) "Reverend James L.Dow" that mentions on page 403 :

(The only man of history who can be compared even remotely to him (Moses) is Mohamet.) Mohamet= Muhammad.


We, Muslims, didnt write this, christians did as if pointing to the above-mentioned verse

(like unto thee) means like u Moses.

"Careful, Boss".


(And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.)


This prophet Must speak In the name of God (Allah).

Nobody on earth can deny the fact that every single chapter (except one) in the Holy Quran starts with:

In The Name Of God(Allah), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.


That was another piece of evidence.

only blind ppl deny these.!

Originally posted by Boss
"Careful, Boss is here".

It's not very strange that these christians dont beleive on Muhammad (pbuh), but what's strange is their lack of information and reading.
Didnt your preists tell u that u christians beleive that Jesus is the prophet being spoken about?

Actually I am aware of it; I didn't post it because I know thatr if I say that the verse speaks of Christ, you guys will say it is not so (yes, you are very predictable already). So you now say it is about Jesus and not about Mohammed. That is good.

1) Ishmael and Isaac are brothers and therfore the children of the one are the brethren of the children of the other. In other words, and because jews are descendants of Isaac and Arabs are descendants of Ishmael, Arabs(descendants of Ishmael- the broth. of Isaac) are the brethren of jews. Hence the prophet in the verse can be no one but the prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

As I've explained in another thread, because Sarah asked that Hagar and Ishmael be banished, Ishmael's inheritance was as well taken away from him. That inheritance alotted to him was given over to Isaac, and indeed to Jacob, who would be renamed Israel. So it is that the prophet said shall be from among the Jewish people, not from those who have not received the inheritance due.

2) The bible itself confirms this by saying: (and he( Ishmael) shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.) Genesis 16:12

It is also recorded that Ishmael and his descendants shall go against his kin. You also misquote Genesis 16:12, for it actually reads of Ishmael:

He shall be a wild *** of a man, his hand against everyone
and everyone's hand against him;
In opposition to all his kin shall he encamp.

And so it is that the enemies of Israel shall surround her, as said in Genesis. So really, it will not come from the line of Ishmael that the prophet will arise, but from among Jewish Israel.

Originally posted by Boss
Another piece of evidence is found in the bible:

Isaiah 29:12
(And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.)

To understand the verse, go back first to verse 9 until verse 12:

Isaiah 29:9-12:

9 Be irresolute, stupefied; blind yourselves and stay blind! Be drunk, but not from wine, stagger, but not from strong drink!
10 For the LORD has poured out on you a spirit of deep sleep. He has shut your eyes (the prophets) and covered your heads (the seers).
11 For you the revelation of all this has become like the words of a sealed scroll. When it is handed to one who can read, with the request, "Read this," he replies, "I cannot; it is sealed."
12 When it is handed to one who cannot read, with the request, "Read this," he replies, "I cannot read."

This is actually a woe against Jerusalem, as found in verse 1 (Ariel understood to either be lion of God or alter of God--the very
descriptions of Jerusalem). Verse 10 tells that Jerusalem has denied the prophets. In verse 11 the situation is likened to a sealed scroll--Jerusalem's denial is hieghtened later on with its denial of the Messiah. Note also that Jesus bewails this woe as well. The verse in question then hardly relates to Mohammed, but is against Jerusalem. If you will read from Isaiah 29:1-12 then:

1 Woe to Ariel, Ariel, the city where David encamped! Add year to year, let the feasts come round.
2 But I will bring distress upon Ariel, with mourning and grief. You shall be to me like Ariel,
3 I will encamp like David against you; I will encircle you with outposts and set up siege works against you.
4 Prostrate you shall speak from the earth, and from the base dust your words shall come. Your voice shall be like a ghost's from the earth, and your words like chirping from the dust.
5 The horde of your arrogant shall be like fine dust, the horde of the tyrants like flying chaff. Then suddenly, in an instant,
6 you shall be visited by the LORD of hosts, With thunder, earthquake, and great noise, whirlwind, storm, and the flame of consuming fire.
7 Then like a dream, a vision in the night, Shall be the horde of all the nations who war against Ariel with all the earthworks of her besiegers.
8 As when a hungry man dreams he is eating and awakens with an empty stomach, Or when a thirsty man dreams he is drinking and awakens faint and dry, So shall the horde of all the nations be, who make war against Zion.
9 Be irresolute, stupefied; blind yourselves and stay blind! Be drunk, but not from wine, stagger, but not from strong drink!
10 For the LORD has poured out on you a spirit of deep sleep. He has shut your eyes (the prophets) and covered your heads (the seers).
11 For you the revelation of all this has become like the words of a sealed scroll. When it is handed to one who can read, with the request, "Read this," he replies, "I cannot; it is sealed."
12 When it is handed to one who cannot read, with the request, "Read this," he replies, "I cannot read."

So you say in eahc post, Careful, Boss is here. Yes, indeed, careful, because Boss will misquote and will mislead you. Be careful of Boss--he is misguiding you.

Originally posted by sanwin25
1) Because I do not believe he was a Prophet.
2) Because I do not like many of the things he did.
3) Because I do not like many of the things he did not do.

and many many more.

Would you like me to continue ?

And who cares about what you like and what you don't. It's time for you to use your brain properly before it disapears.

Ha ha ha ha.
Is that how christians debate and think about things? You really made me laugh so much. Now I can really see that all christians have some kind of Mania(let me call it) to reject and change the truths, even those widely known in history. I dont blame u, coz I know that u all have been (filled) with such ideas.



The pieces of evidence up are still waiting for someone to discuss, for I dont consider urs as GOOD responds. They r stupid.

Dear Silver Ring.
“so don’t post some thing you wouldn't like to discuss again.”
So far I think this not a correct approach.
In comparative study on religion, primary condition is that we are to be transparent and neutral.
Honestly it is very difficult.
Gentleman placed three points before you the members of the Sabla.
Obviously for the discussion publicly.
He claimed that he has many other reasons for disagreeing with you.
Lately he declared, he is not a Muslim and has no time to waste on discussion.
So he placed total 4 points.
Due to the acrobatic character of the gentleman, instead of “many more” he has spoken loudly that he is not a Muslim, this is the other point.
Mr. IceTea,
It is not a matter of who cares or who does not cares.
This is not an answer.
Please do not provoke those people who will not be able to discuss sensitive issue with due respect.
Here I mean all religion, all prophets.

Originally posted by Boss
[B
It's widely known that Abraham(pbuh) had two wives; Hagar who bore Ishmael and Sarah who - after 13 years of Ishmael's birth - bore Isaac. That means:

1) Ishmael and Isaac are brothers and therfore the children of the one are the brethren of the children of the other. In other words, and because jews are descendants of Isaac and Arabs are descendants of Ishmael, Arabs(descendants of Ishmael- the broth. of Isaac) are the brethren of jews. [/B]

I would LOVE to see what the scientific evidence we can gather from mitochondrial DNA and Y-chromosome analysis would tell us about the truth of that!!!!

Wouldn't it be neat to see hard evidence of the story that claims that arabs and jews can trace ancestry back to a single father.

It can be done.

Originally posted by Boss
Ha ha ha ha.
Is that how christians debate and think about things? You really made me laugh so much. Now I can really see that all christians have some kind of Mania(let me call it) to reject and change the truths, even those widely known in history. I dont blame u, coz I know that u all have been (filled) with such ideas.

And what is your response then again? Let us for a moment say that Isaiah 29:12 does speak of Mohammed--from verse 1-11 it speaks of God going against him then. So, in essence, God is against Mohammed that He will heap woe upon woe on him? From verse 13 to 16 speaks of more woes against him then:

13 Lord said: Since this people draws near with words only and honors me with their lips alone, though their hearts are far from me, And their reverence for me has become routine observance of the precepts of men,
14 Therefore I will again deal with this people in surprising and wondrous fashion: The wisdom of its wise men shall perish and the understanding of its prudent men be hid.
15 Woe to those who would hide their plans too deep for the LORD! Who work in the dark, saying, "Who sees us, or who knows us?"
16 Your perversity is as though the potter were taken to be the clay: As though what is made should say of its maker, "He made me not!" Or the vessel should say of the potter, "He does not understand."

But as you can see, verse 13 to 16 speaks of "this people", which is connected all the way from verse 1, so you can see that verse 12 can't be interpreted to mean about Mohammed. Boss, do read the whole passage before making such strange conclusions. As Vin Diesel said in Fast and the Furious--You're embarrassing me. You're turning into a big embarrassment for Muslims by making claims that aren't there. I could go on from verse 17 onwards, but I hope you got the point already.

And who cares about what you like and what you don't. It's time for you to use your brain properly before it disapears.

Who cares ?

For a start, I was just responding to queries from Enigma and Silver Ring.

So shove that where the sun don't shine.

Now my old friend (and I mean old, literally) if am a Christian, why on earth would I believe in the Prophet Mohammed ? Try to use your brain, even if only this one time.

If I believe in the Prophet, then I would not be a Christian, I would be a Muslim.

Did you understand that ?

Christians believe in Christ.

Muslims believe that Mohammed was a Prophet.

Quite simple, if you really think about.

And why are you so scared of discussing this topic, that you are busy warning members of the rules ?

Originally posted by sanwin25


If I believe in the Prophet, then I would not be a Christian, I would be a Muslim.

so use ur brain and ask ur self again..why you not believing in muhammed ? is that bcuz ur a christian or cuz u have faith that mohammed wasn't a prophet !!!

Silver_Ring ... ask yourself ... why are you so dumb? Is it because you're too young, or is it because you're not well aware of how the world works?

Sorry, but your stupidy gets on my nerves!!

Originally posted by Shinoda LP
Silver_Ring ... ask yourself ... why are you so dumb? Is it because you're too young, or is it because you're not well aware of how the world works?

Sorry, but your stupidy gets on my nerves!!

am not asking u

I just asked you.

Originally posted by sanwin25


Now my old friend (and I mean old, literally) if am a Christian, why on earth would I believe in the Prophet Mohammed ? Try to use your brain, even if only this one time.

If I believe in the Prophet, then I would not be a Christian, I would be a Muslim.

Did you understand that ?

Christians believe in Christ.

Muslims believe that Mohammed was a Prophet.

Quite simple, if you really think about.

And why are you so scared of discussing this topic, that you are busy warning members of the rules ?

A true believer should believe in all profets, like us muslims.

Are you saying that all Christians like you, they only believe in Profet Jesus and they don't believe in the final messanger Profet Mohammed PBUH?

"Careful, Boss is here".



I would LOVE to see what the scientific evidence we can gather from mitochondrial DNA and Y-chromosome analysis would tell us about the truth of that!!!!

hmm. An expected answer from u! Due to lack of knowledge. But anyway, I shall ignore silly posts.


Still my pieces of evidence r there waiting.

chritians envy Muslims, because we have the last and fianl messenger. That's why, they're trying as much as possible to insult Islam or change the Holy Quran.
Noway!

Unfotunately, I dont have a scanner otherwise I would show u a prddf which confirms my words that they tried to produce their gospels in Quranic style. Plagiarism!.
Of course, not forgetting the BISMILLAH. How unsure and unconfident about ur beleifs!

chritians envy Muslims, because we have the last and fianl messenger

Pity would be a more appropriate word.

Originally posted by Boss
Still my pieces of evidence r there waiting.

Despair in your wait, then, because they've been soundly refuted. It's time you look for evidence elsewhere.

chritians envy Muslims, because we have the last and fianl messenger. That's why, they're trying as much as possible to insult Islam or change the Holy Quran.

Actually, we don't even envy Islam. Why should we when we have the King of kings? So no, we in no way envy you. And insult Islam? If you look at the posts here, it is your fellow Muslims who are insulting Christians, not us insulting you.

Unfotunately, I dont have a scanner otherwise I would show u a prddf which confirms my words that they tried to produce their gospels in Quranic style. Plagiarism!.

Unfortunately, you need to go back and study history, since you know very well that the Bible came first before Mohammed hijacked it wholesale, producing the Qur'an. Maybe we should charge you with plagiarism, but then we'd be stooping to your level if we do so.

Originally posted by Boss
hmm. An expected answer from u! Due to lack of knowledge. But anyway, I shall ignore silly posts.

LOL, you DIDN'T ignore my post, does that mean it's not one of the silly ones? :p I love your logic :)

By this same "logic", my comment that it is scientifically possible to gather hard evidence to test a biblical assertion is "silly" due to my "lack of knowledge".

Implying that, were I more knowledgeable, like you, I wouldn't be interested in evidence.

Where is your faith? If you had any, you would be eager to see science that would validate your faith and prove it to the unbelievers. However, your eagerness to dismiss the the idea of seeking proof and insult the one who makes the suggestion, shows us your fear and lack of faith.


Still my pieces of evidence r there waiting.

What you wrote before is logically flawed in every sentence, besides being based on other scriptures.

chritians envy Muslims, because we have the last and fianl messenger. That's why, they're trying as much as possible to insult Islam or change the Holy Quran.

Well, this comment is completely unrelated to the rest of your post, but I'll answer it because it's wrong. I've never met a Christian who envied a Muslim, and I'm certain I know far more Christians than you do. In fact, the vast majority of Christians I've met don't know and don't care about Islam and have no particular opinions about muslims.

Unfotunately, I dont have a scanner otherwise I would show u a prddf which confirms my words that they tried to produce their gospels in Quranic style. Plagiarism!.

when did this red herring pop up and what does it have to do with anything? I've no interest in whether someone tried to write gospels in the Quranic style. But it would be a neat trick, indeed, to convince me that the writers of the Bible plagiarized from the Quran, which wasn't written until 500 years later :p I invite you to try.

How unsure and unconfident about ur beleifs!

My post made no mention of my beliefs, so what have you assumed my beliefs to be? If you don't know what my beliefs are, how can you so casually pass judgement on my confidence in them? I merely expressed an interest in applying new scientific techniques to test the truth of a bible verse. I'm quite sure and confident that the science would give us the truth.

However, your statement DOES serve to illustrate for interested observers your lack of critical thinking skills. How DID you make the leap from "Moonchild wants to see a scientific test to see if Jews and Arabs descended from a single person (presumably Abraham)" to "Moonchild is unsure about her (unknown) beliefs"?