Well according to my knowledge, Christians beleive that you have to beleive that Jesus is the son of God inorder to enter heaven. Which means that no one will enter heaven except christians.

I got this information from my christian friends and from some members in the sabla ..
However, to my surprise .. some christians condem muslims for beleiving that!!

This got me confused, so what do christians beleive??

Yes, that is correct--to enter Heaven, one must follow and obey Jesus. However, it is also true that there are those, through no fault of their own, have not heard of Jesus or the Gospel. Since it is not their fault, God does not take it against them and judge them according their merits. If, though, one has heard of Jesus and the Gospel, but refuse to believe, then the judgment against him will be severe.

with the excellent media capabilities we have in the world now lets assume that 90% of world population have heard of Jesus and Mohammed (PBUH).

* nearly 2/3 of world population are neither muslims no christians.
* lets assume that about 50% of muslims and christians do not follow their religion.

now muslims and christians: are you telling me that god will send all those billions of people to hell regardless of their good deeds here on earth.

why this doesn't make sense to me?

I think everybody who lives a good life goes to heaven.

Irrespective of his religion / lack of religion.

Big Mo, I agree with you .. I beleive that Allah is fair and we dont know what critieria is he judging in .. Yes no one will enter heaven except beleivers but who are us to know who is a beleiver and who is not.

ya3ni, we shouldnt start judging who will enter heaven and who will .. we should concentrate instead on making good deeds so it will help us in the judgment day.

Originally posted by Arabian Princess
Big Mo, I agree with you .. I beleive that Allah is fair and we dont know what critieria is he judging in .. Yes no one will enter heaven except beleivers but who are us to know who is a beleiver and who is not.

ya3ni, we shouldnt start judging who will enter heaven and who will .. we should concentrate instead on making good deeds so it will help us in the judgment day. Good deeds wiythout asking for a immediate or expected results that is!

yes, just for the sake of helping us in the Judgement day!

Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft
Yes, that is correct--to enter Heaven, one must follow and obey Jesus. .

But Jesus PBUH didn't tell his people to worship him or his mother. Otherwise how do you obey him if you believe in such things.

Originally posted by Arabian Princess
[B] I beleive that Allah is fair and we dont know what critieria is he judging in ..

[B]

I don't know why you are saying "we don't know the criteria", and it's clearly mentioned in the Quran in many verses, which I have posted in that thread.

who are the beleivers???

who beleive in Islam .. yet in Islam the first muslim was prophet Ibrahim!!

I think its a complicated thing and no one has the right to decide anything. Its for us to work hard and for Allah to Judge.

You as a muslim and should know yourself what is a true believer means to you otherwise how do you practice your religion.

You are mixing two things here, the first one is the criteria to enter heaven, do't tell me you don't know the criteria because it's mentioned in the Quran, otherwsie why Allah will mention them to people to work on them and to know what will lead them to heaven. The second point you are mixing knowing the criteria and who will decide if the criteria are really met or not by each person. Here we all agree that only Allah will decide if the criteria are met or not based on each person performance in his life.


I hope it's clear to you now.!

Originally posted by sanwin25
I think everybody who lives a good life goes to heaven.

Irrespective of his religion / lack of religion. even those people who believing in cow as a god ?

I know this. Those who condemn other religions don't go to heaven.

Silver Ring ... sorry mate.

Isn't it considered in christianity that the soul enters heaven?

Christian Beliefs:
* that the soul is embodied for a single life time, but is immortal and accountable to God for all thoughts and actions.
*that upon death and according to its earthly deeds and its acceptance of the Christian faith, the soul enters Heaven, Purgatory or Hell, there awaiting the Last Judgement when the dead shall rise again, the redeemed to enjoy life everlasting and the unsaved to suffer eternally.

Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft
Yes, that is correct--to enter Heaven, one must follow and obey Jesus. However, it is also true that there are those, through no fault of their own, have not heard of Jesus or the Gospel. Since it is not their fault, God does not take it against them and judge them according their merits. If, though, one has heard of Jesus and the Gospel, but refuse to believe, then the judgment against him will be severe.

why I'm not a Christian. that just doesn't make any sense.

Originally posted by MoonChild
why I'm not a Christian. that just doesn't make any sense.

sanwin and his troops will be upset from you. Can you tell us why do you think it doesn't make sense?

Originally posted by IceTea
sanwin and his troops will be upset from you. Can you tell us why do you think it doesn't make sense?

I simply don't believe that a sane God would set up the world that way. There's 10,000 years of civilization before Jesus, all people believing whatever they believe... searching for answers about origins, meaning of life etc.

the Jews, a small tribe, were the first to claim (as far as I know) divine revelation of their religion, but they never made claims that everyone else would go to some "hell" if they didn't believe in the same God.

Then suddenly 10,000 years later Jesus shows up and claims that the only way to Heaven/eternal life/avoid Hell is to believe that he's the Son of God (the One True Representative of the One True God). And whatever the last 10,000 years of people were doing (without the benefit of His guidance) was wrong ... and just because people started spreading tales about miracles, you'll go to HELL and be TORMENTED FOREVER if you don't believe the strangers that show up in your town talkign about the dude who did a few miracles before you were born to prove he was the Messiah (a Jewish concept to begin with, and unheard of by the Celts, Chinese, !Kung, etc).

It just doesn't make sense.

If it was THAT DARNED IMPORTANT TO GOD - so important that He will torture unbelievers forever - for everyone to KNOW he's the ONE TRUE GOD, and that certain behavior is necessary to avoid that torture, then He would make that clear from Day 1, to all societies in all times, in their language, in a consistent message that no one would feel the need to fight over.

anything less is just plain cruel.

Therefore, logically, either that God and that Message is WRONG, or we are in the iron grip of an insanely cruel deity.

MoonChild, it certainly doesn't make sense either that someone comes 500 years later and claims that the religion he puts is the true religion, and then his followers spread this religion by the sword either, does it now?

even those people who believing in cow as a god ?

Yes, even they.

You have no business passing judgement on other people and other religons.

You are a pretty miserable example of a so called Muslim as most members here would agree.

If a persons faith asks them to worship a tree, and they truly follow the tenents of their faith, they will be rewarded.

Too bad, you might just pop it and find heaven full of cows. (not that you would be staying there, you would be sort of a 'transit passenger' so to speak, in transit towards a much hotter place).

Would be quite a sight to see Silver Ring covered in cowdung.

Very fitting, but quite hilarious.

Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft
MoonChild, it certainly doesn't make sense either that someone comes 500 years later and claims that the religion he puts is the true religion, and then his followers spread this religion by the sword either, does it now?

I understand you dont beleive in Islam, but why do you have to relate what MoonChild is saying to it!!

Plus, christianity is certainly at the same place as Islam .. Prophet Jesus (may peace be upon him) came and said that Jews were not following the right path!!

Originally posted by MoonChild

Therefore, logically, either that God and that Message is WRONG, or we are in the iron grip of an insanely cruel deity.

What you said is true about the none sense of what Milliardo Peacecraft posted.

There is nothing wrong with the message, Allah ordered all profets to spread the same message to people. But the problem is with people themselves they change the message according to their personal desires and they didn't listen to their profets. And thats why Allah punished the previous civilizations for what they did.

Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft
MoonChild, it certainly doesn't make sense either that someone comes 500 years later and claims that the religion he puts is the true religion, and then his followers spread this religion by the sword either, does it now?

How can you say it doesn't make sense if Profet Jesus PBUH said himself that another messanger will be coming after me his name is Ahmed.

Originally posted by Arabian Princess
I understand you dont beleive in Islam, but why do you have to relate what MoonChild is saying to it!!

I'm just making a point there. It happens that Islam is the one pointed at, but it could very well be any other religion.

Plus, christianity is certainly at the same place as Islam .. Prophet Jesus (may peace be upon him) came and said that Jews were not following the right path!!

Not really. Jesus didn't say that Judaism is the wrong path. You can search the whole Bible for Him saying it; you will not find it. What He said is that He is the fulfillment of everything that the Jews waited for and believed. Of course most of the Jews didn't think so, which is another matter.

How can you say it doesn't make sense if Profet Jesus PBUH said himself that another messanger will be coming after me his name is Ahmed.

That's according to your book, which neither the Jews nor Christians subscribe to. Jesus did send a messenger--but that is the Holy Spirit, to guide the Church He raised. I am not sure if the Holy Spirit's name is Ahmed, but I would be willing to bet that the Holy Spirit will not let Himself be addressed as Ahmed.

Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft
I'm just making a point there. It happens that Islam is the one pointed at, but it could very well be any other religion.
What I dont understand is why people try to explain what people think wrong with thier religion with whats they think wrong in Islam!!
She didnt beleive in christianity, explain it her within the boundries of christianity and dont derive another Islamic discussion into it!!


Not really. Jesus didn't say that Judaism is the wrong path. You can search the whole Bible for Him saying it; you will not find it. What He said is that He is the fulfillment of everything that the Jews waited for and believed. Of course most of the Jews didn't think so, which is another matter.
[/B]
but there is something that Jews and Chsitians didnt agree with right??!
same as muslims and christians, the basics are the same ... we beleive in the same god and all the prophets until prophet Jesus. We have parts that we dont agree with but we basicly beleive in the same thing!!

Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft



That's according to your book, which neither the Jews nor Christians subscribe to. Jesus did send a messenger--but that is the Holy Spirit, to guide the Church He raised. I am not sure if the Holy Spirit's name is Ahmed, but I would be willing to bet that the Holy Spirit will not let Himself be addressed as Ahmed.

My book and your book are from one source, Allah sent both of them to profet Mohammed and Profet Jesus PBUT. Now the difference is the Bible changed by humans many times on the other hand the Quran is the truth and never changed.

And profet Jesus PBUH is a human being like us, so he doesn't have any control on the Spirit, only Allah knows about the spirit.

The almost unbelievable aspect of Islam is that muslims declare that it is the final message.......

since humans have been here on the planet for maybe 4 million years and will probably stay another 4 million......

I am certain the ideas will change......hopefully to a broader message of peaceful co existence........

And possibly man may discover for the first time in human history the exact DNA of human evolution.......this may run counter to all information from anicent times.......as to the orgin of man.

These religions from 2000 years ago can't cope with with changes.........like this.

They are stuck in the past clinging to an old world..........that never imagined the human spirit being FREE to discover the universe.

Cheers
fatak

Originally posted by fatak
The almost unbelievable aspect of Islam is that muslims declare that it is the final message.......


and so does chrstians and Jews and every other religion!!

It is stupied not to beleive that your religion is the final message coz what makes you beleive in it in the first place :rolleyes:

Originally posted by fatak
The almost unbelievable aspect of Islam is that muslims declare that it is the final message.......



Thats the truth. Even if you will live for 1 million years yourself you won't see any other message or another profet. Allah sealed everything with Profet Mohammed PBUH as the final messanger and the holy Quran as the final book.

Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft
MoonChild, it certainly doesn't make sense either that someone comes 500 years later and claims that the religion he puts is the true religion, and then his followers spread this religion by the sword either, does it now?

I apply the same criteria to all religions.

You notice I belong to none of them.

Originally posted by sanwin25
Yes, even they.

You have no business passing judgement on other people and other religons.
Too bad, you might just pop it and find heaven full of cows. (not that you would be staying there, you would be sort of a 'transit passenger' so to speak, in transit towards a much hotter place).


Didin't you just say that nobody has buisness passin judjment on others and there relegion?....If so....how do u know he's goin to make a transit to heaven then go to a hotter place?

The thing I find most rediculious about any religion are the insistant arguments over who will go to heaven or not.

Follow your path and God will be the judge in the end.

and don't forget the recuitment drive......

You need to be able to offer the new recuit some incentive.......

Alomost all religions will tell you that you will only go to heaven with their religion..........and burn in hell for eternety with the others.......

Some of them are worse then used car salesmen. (salespersons)

We offer paradise........etc etc......

Cheers
fatak

Didin't you just say that nobody has buisness passin judjment on others and there relegion?....If so....how do u know he's goin to make a transit to heaven then go to a hotter place?

Ah well, I never did expect you to understand the delicacies of sarcasm.