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This questions is more for the non-muslim members, but the others are welcome to comment:

Though we are each entitled to our own believes, what would be your reaction if, in Judgement Day, you were told by God that the Quran was indeed His last message, sealing what was revealed before and up to Prophet Mohammed (pbuh)?

Let's not divert the topic and let's imagine that you are facing God and that He says to you that we, muslims, were not wrong all this time.

What would you say to Him?

What would you say to Him?I would say I'm sorry, but I just could not believe that you would allow and sanction slavery, beating of my wife or wives and other things in the Quran.

What ya goin to do with me now God?

Originally posted by jack
allow slavery of my wife or wives

:eyes:

First of all, it would not even happen, as it is affirmed that the alpha and the omega, the one who shall be Judge and King, is none other than Jesus Himself--not Mohammed nor any angel, so this scene will not even play.

MP its affirmed only to you, but there are other people who dont think so.

What if it wasnt, what would you tell Allah?

I would tell Allah that he should have been a little bit more wiser while implementing his 'religion' over the world. Stoning people to death, allowing a man to marry 4 wives, beating ladies with canes etc do not come in my good books.

I believe he'll let me into heavens (if there is one), because I spoke my mind unlike millions those who blindly follow what their dads told 'em.

....

But, this looks like fiction to me ... so far.

I would ask why He didn't make more sense!!!

I mean, the Architect of the Universe can certainly write an "instruction manual" for life and salvation that's at least as rational and well-organized as any given graduate thesis - if He wanted to.

So my second question is why did He play such a cruel game with humanity?


Oh, there would be so MANY questions, if God took the time to explain Himself :)

OK....HERE GOES.....here's my scenerio........

Fatak:" ok....Allah, it's like this.....as you know I have Irish/Scottish blood.....so you know we are a stubborn people.....you did CREATE US, RIGHT?
Actually.....you did say we had "free will", right?

So what's the problem? I led a good life I was good to people.....and gave to the poor. Sorry I didn't learn Arabic.....well just the bad words.

If you wanted me to throw myself on the floor 5 times a day and thank you and praise you.....Sorry about that. I was too busy trying to raise my family and stay out of trouble.......so please accept my thanks now........and by the way Is Sister Pauline here from my Cathoilc school, you remember her, she used to beat me all the time.........oh and I hear there is wine here......do you mind?

If you want me to go to hell, heh....I won't take it personal, just business right? You got an image to protect, I know. "

AND ONE LAST THING.....why did my favorite dog.....Nikkie.get run over by that car.......when I was 8 years old, that really hurt.......why get you take her......what's a little cute puppy dog to you........???

Oh well......do I have time for a few drinks before I leave......where's the bar?

PS......I always liked those muslims....especially those Omanis....

Cheers
fatak

Originally posted by fatak
OK....HERE GOES.....here's my scenerio........

Fatak:" ok....Allah, it's like this.....as you know I have Irish/Scottish blood.....so you know we are a stubborn people.....you did CREATE US, RIGHT?
Actually.....you did say we had "free will", right?

So what's the problem? I led a good life I was good to people.....and gave to the poor. Sorry I didn't learn Arabic.....well just the bad words.

If you wanted me to throw myself on the floor 5 times a day and thank you and praise you.....Sorry about that. I was too busy trying to raise my family and stay out of trouble.......so please accept my thanks now........and by the way Is Sister Pauline here from my Cathoilc school, you remember her, she used to beat me all the time.........oh and I hear there is wine here......do you mind?

If you want me to go to hell, heh....I won't take it personal, just business right? You got an image to protect, I know. "

AND ONE LAST THING.....why did my favorite dog.....Nikkie.get run over by that car.......when I was 8 years old, that really hurt.......why get you take her......what's a little cute puppy dog to you........???

Oh well......do I have time for a few drinks before I leave......where's the bar?

PS......I always liked those muslims....especially those Omanis....

Cheers
fatak


Youe weired man!? Learning arabic would not get ya into heaven ohh and about 'free will' you always had the choice to govern yourself...why did you not take it. If we as muslims have the time to take care of our business and ''throw'' our self to the ground five times a day why cant you?

On the Day you shall see the believing men and the believing women their light running forward before them and by their right hands. Glad tidings for you this Day! Gardens under which rivers flow (Paradise), to dwell therein forever! Truly, this is the great success!
13.
On the Day when the hypocrites men and women will say to the believers: "Wait for us! Let us get something from your light!" It will be said: "Go back to your rear! Then seek a light!" So a wall will be put up between them, with a gate therein. Inside it will be mercy, and outside it will be torment."
14.
(The hypocrites) will call the believers: "Were we not with you?" The believers will reply: "Yes! But you led yourselves into temptations, you looked forward for our destruction; you doubted (in Faith); and you were deceived by false desires, till the Command of Allâh came to pass. And the chief deceiver (Satan) deceived you in respect of Allâh."
15.
So this Day no ransom shall be taken from you (hypocrites), nor of those who disbelieved, (in the Oneness of Allâh Islâmic Monotheism). Your abode is the Fire, that is the proper place for you, and worst indeed is that destination.
16.
Has not the time come for the hearts of those who believe (in the Oneness of Allâh - Islâmic Monotheism) to be affected by Allâh's Reminder (this Qur'ân), and that which has been revealed of the truth, lest they become as those who received the Scripture [the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] before (i.e. Jews and Christians), and the term was prolonged for them and so their hearts were hardened? And many of them were Fâsiqûn (rebellious, disobedient to Allâh).
17.
Know that Allâh gives life to the earth after its death! Indeed We have made clear the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) to you, if you but understand.
----------------------
44. Ad-Dukhân

Verily, the Day of Judgement (when Allâh will judge between the creatures) is the time appointed for all of them,
41.
The Day when Maulan (a near relative) cannot avail Maulan (a near relative) in aught, and no help can they receive,
42.
Except him on whom Allâh has Mercy. Verily, He is the All-Mighty, the Most Merciful.
43.
Verily, the tree of Zaqqûm,
44.
Will be the food of the sinners,
45.
Like boiling oil, it will boil in the bellies,
46.
Like the boiling of scalding water.
47.
(It will be said) "Seize him and drag him into the midst of blazing Fire,
48.
pour over his head the torment of boiling water,
49.
(this)! Verily, you were (pretending to be) the mighty, the generous!
50.
is is that whereof you used to doubt!"
51.
Verily! The Muttaqûn (pious - see V.2:2), will be in place of Security (Paradise).
52.
Among Gardens and Springs;
53.
Dressed in fine silk and (also) in thick silk, facing each other,
54.
So (it will be), and We shall marry them to Houris[] (female fair ones) with wide, lovely eyes.
55.
They will call therein for every kind of fruit in peace and security;
56.
They will never taste death therein except the first death (of this world), and He will save them from the torment of the blazing Fire,
57.
As a Bounty from your Lord! That will be the supreme success!
58.
Certainly, We have made this (Qur'ân) easy in your tongue, in order that they may remember.
59.
Wait then (O Muhammad SAW); Verily, they (too) are waiting.

Originally posted by jack


What ya goin to do with me now God?

He can send you to the hell and burn in it forever.

So do you think you can get out of it?

I'd say:

"Wassup G! How goes plans for the judgement day!!!"

"Running out of space in hell for all those misguided hypocrties who have killed in your name and lived false lives while 'practicing' your religion?"

Originally posted by Pretender
I'd say:

"Wassup G! How goes plans for the judgement day!!!"

"Running out of space in hell for all those misguided hypocrties who have killed in your name and lived false lives while 'practicing' your religion?"

Oh my God!! I thought you were Muslim ... Come on now.. ! This isn't a joke, and remember, for every word you say; the angels on both, your left and right, write down what you say..

Okay, let's not change the topic.. let's here what other NON Muslim say.. and let's see the Muslim supporting this course!

i dont know what to say but all i know that allah will sent jesus back to earth again and he will going to kill that monster named "al-masee7 al-dajal" (( Demasaya ))
and jesus will become muslim ...
and all those sinners shell know that islam is the only religion which leads you to heavans .....

On the Day you shall see the believing men and the believing women their light running forward before them and by their right hands.Then I should not have any problem. I am a true believer. I just don't believe what you believe.
He can send you to the hell and burn in it forever.The man has spoken........
all those sinners shell know that islam is the only religion which leads you to heavans .....Do you think that God will only allows Muslims in heaven, so there won't be any fighting and killing over who gets what cloud in heaven?

Originally posted by Areej
Oh my God!! I thought you were Muslim ... Come on now.. ! This isn't a joke, and remember, for every word you say; the angels on both, your left and right, write down what you say..

Okay, let's not change the topic.. let's here what other NON Muslim say.. and let's see the Muslim supporting this course!

I rest my case ...

Originally posted by jack
Do you think that God will only allows Muslims in heaven, so there won't be any fighting and killing over who gets what cloud in heaven? [/B] u r not believing in HIM and u want HIM to allow u to join heaven ?

u r not believing in HIM and u want HIM to allow u to join heaven ?

You sound like HIS secretary who knows a bit about who he'll let in.

Get a life. :)

what if some one telling u ,that u r living on The Mars planet not on the earth. what would you be your reaction ?

my reaction would be same

SRThen I should not have any problem. I am a true believer. I just don't believe what you believe.Not sure which part of "Believe" you don't understand? Is it in the Quran or a hadeth or Mohammed himself that said, if an unbeliever country/society refuses to allow the word of Islam to be spread, the peacful Islam has the right and duty to use force to spread the word of peaceful Islam?

Somehow PEACEFUL and FORCE don't seem to belong in the same sentence.

Sort of like GENTLE and MURDERER.

But thats only me.

What do I really know about the religion of peace ?

Originally posted by Pretender
"Running out of space in hell?"

{On the Day when We will say to Hell: "Are you filled?" It will say: "Are there any more (to come)?"}

[50:30]

Originally posted by X-press
Let's not divert the topic and let's imagine that you are facing God and that He says to you that we, muslims, were not wrong all this time.

What would you say to Him?
As a non-muslim, I'd say,
'You are a great forgiver, so you'll surely forgive me, that was a tough exam out there, I couldn't cope with it, you are GOD, most merciful, so you'll give me another chance!';)

I am sure he would!!

Originally posted by sanwin25
Somehow PEACEFUL and FORCE don't seem to belong in the same sentence.

Sort of like GENTLE and MURDERER.

But thats only me.

What do I really know about the religion of peace ?
This is what a famous Americam muslim has to say about peaceful Islam.

http://www.cmgww.com/historic/malcolm/quotes.html

"There is nothing in our book, the Koran, that teaches us to suffer peacefully. Our religion teaches us to be intelligent. Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. That’s a good religion."
"Message to the Grass Roots," speech, Nov. 1963, Detroit (published in Malcolm X Speaks, ch. 1, 1965).

My first introduction to Islam ;)

Originally posted by Seham
As a non-muslim, I'd say,
'You are a great forgiver, so you'll surely forgive me, that was a tough exam out there, I couldn't cope with it, you are GOD, most merciful, so you'll give me another chance!';)

I am sure he would!!

i like your answer .....


and u still alive .. maybe HE gaves u a second chance now to THINK .. who knows when u 'll die ?!!

Originally posted by jack
This is what a famous Americam muslim has to say about peaceful Islam.


NATION OF ISLAM - nothing to do with REAL Islam!

Originally posted by MoonChild
NATION OF ISLAM - nothing to do with REAL Islam!

It seems that you know the real Islam, so why don't you enter Islam and forget about nation of Islam.

Originally posted by Pretender
I rest my case ...


Which was ???? :lost: was there ever a case

But at one time either you or Silver Ring were posting articles praising the Nation of Islam.

Which is it ?

The Nation of Islam group in the US had nothing to do with the real Isma. they used to preach that all white people are evil (and if you're a black person living in the US in 60s you'd probably believe it's true). They also used to hail their leader Elajah Mohammed as a prophet of Allah. Malcolm X himself condemed the movemet and got out if it after discovering the true Islam in during his pilgrimage in Mecca. On his return to the US he strated a new movement which taught the real Islam.

I know that Big Mo.

But the two 'outstanding' muslims members on this forum were at one time popagating the Nation of Islam and it's ideology.

Seems that every sect of Islam claims that theirs is the right one. Wahabbi, Shia, Sunni, Nation of Islam, yet, you claim you are all "brothers".

Arabs have a saying, "Brother against brother, except when brother against cousin." That seems to be more telling then any lip service about one not being "true Islam".

But back to the subject. I'm pure Scottish, no mix, and I'm not stubborn, merely correct. I would stand in front of God and say, "Well, why didn't you make it clear to ALL people? I mean, you have religions all over the world that speak of you. Whether it be God, Allah, Great Spirit, so on so forth. Does it really matter what book they read, what traditions they used to worship you, so long as they understood your presence? In any case, it seems to me, you've made quite a muck up of the whole thing, with people killing each other merely on the whimsical idea of what particular book they read, or were taught. You gave us the instrumentation of greatness or folly, depending on it's use. You gave us the ability to make whiskey and beer (thank you). You gave us the ability to do great and righteous things, or delve deep into depravity. You gave us the right of FREE WILL. And you gave others the ability to deprive that free will. Just out of curiosity, what exactly were you thinking? I mean, why not make us all look alike, think alike? That would have helped some blokes that seem to believe that their color of their skin or affiliation of their tribe is more important then the character of the man or woman that stands before them. For that matter, what is up with the whole man/woman thing? You gave the woman the gift of life. Gave her the most important job between the two, yet, allow men to run their lives like they're nothing. Why do you allow that? I think that the women should be in charge. Not the other way around. You gave the men muscle merely to hunt and gather. But gave the women the brains. Was it your intention to make brawn more important then brains? If so, a large bloke like me, should be able to put a smaller bloke to task, and have him do all me work for me. Some things you've done just make no sense. Was that your intention? I mean, you've already made your decision whether I pass through to heaven, or pass through to hell, so answering my questions aren't going to hurt you, or make you change your mind. So, (looking back at earth, hiking my thumb in it's direction), what was that all about?"

Originally posted by Scottish
Seems that every sect of Islam claims that theirs is the right one. Wahabbi, Shia, Sunni, Nation of Islam, yet, you claim you are all "brothers".


Yes unfourtuntly we have sects, but it is not true that we all beleive that any different sect is the rght one!!
there is a topic called Mathahib that exaplains what am saying!

Originally posted by Shinoda LP
I would tell Allah that he should have been a little bit more wiser while implementing his 'religion' over the world. Stoning people to death, allowing a man to marry 4 wives, beating ladies with canes etc do not come in my good books.


sorry dear..
i want to mention in one point only and its by saying why Allah Allowed muslim men to marry 4 wives not like u only one and she will be with him forever in good and bad time ..
but excuse me by saying that its true that u marry one but u go out with thousands men and u get pregnant and u dont know who is the father,, so that make sense to u ???
or marrying 4 and they all know that this child only got one father .. seriously i feel if u read more about islam as u wanna know what in it .. u'll feel there will be more sense to u but u read it and u put in ur mind that u dont wanna believe anything in it ,, so what is the use of reading it ,,,

but excuse me by saying that its true that u marry one but u go out with thousands men and u get pregnant and u dont know who is the father,, so that make sense to u ??

If you know people like this, then all I can say is you are moving in the completely wrong sort of company.

Originally posted by Miss Naughty
sorry dear..
i want to mention in one point only and its by saying why Allah Allowed muslim men to marry 4 wives not like u only one and she will be with him forever in good and bad time ..
but excuse me by saying that its true that u marry one but u go out with thousands men and u get pregnant and u dont know who is the father,, so that make sense to u ???


That makes as much sense as saying, because 1+1 does not equal 4, then 1+1 must equal 3.

geez, people.

Originally posted by Milliardo Peacecraft
First of all, it would not even happen, as it is affirmed that the alpha and the omega, the one who shall be Judge and King, is none other than Jesus Himself--not Mohammed nor any angel, so this scene will not even play.


have you missed something about the question or you've just decided to pre-empt the question ? You made GOD redundant :rolleyes:

Yes unfourtuntly we have sects, but it is not true that we all beleive that any different sect is the rght one!!

If that is true Lass, please explain to me the clashes between them, and why they feel the followings of either Mohammad or Mohammads Son is what?

I mean, isn't that the whole thing, is Islam about God? Or is it about the prophet? Or his son? Or a scolar?

If a kufr is a non believer. And I am a believer in God, then it would seem to me, there is no fight against the west. Who is making it one? Oil does not last forever. What's next?

Originally posted by jack
I would say I'm sorry, but I just could not believe that you would allow and sanction slavery, beating of my wife or wives and other things in the Quran.

What ya goin to do with me now God?

exuse me jack, but i think you have to respect others in religion, i know that you are not muslim and i respect your religion, ofcourse everyone would try to convert somone else to his/her religion BUT WITH OUR RESPECT TO THE OTHER RELIGIONS.

so now what we belive is that QURAN is true and we are in the right path, SO WHATS YOUR PROBLEM???!! non has forced you to be a muslim , ANYWAY thank god that am muslim:D

exuse me malak84

Your religion allows and sanctions slavery, beating of a wife or wives and other things in the Quran. This is per the Quran as you very well know. Not something I made up from thin air.

If you have a problem with that take it up with God, not me.

Originally posted by jack
exuse me malak84

Your religion allows and sanctions slavery, beating of a wife or wives and other things in the Quran. This is per the Quran as you very well know. Not something I made up from thin air.

If you have a problem with that take it up with God, not me.

well dont talk about somthin you dont know about , well it is true that the quran has mentioned about bitting the wives ,? But did you know HOW THEY SHOULD BIT THEM?DID YOU KNOW WHY SHOULD THEY BIT THEM?

well ofcourse not, iwill tell you that to beat the wife it has to be NOT HARD, thats what the verse meant, its not as you think .

Note:that it is forbiden in islam to beat a women hardly espicly in her face.

Of Course. Beat them "lightly".

That makes it wonderful, does it not? Unless you're the one being lightly beaten? Under whose opinion is "lightly".

And it matters not your "justification", it is barbaric to "lightly" beat someone you purported love. I suppose, it would be dandy for wife to lightly beat me for same offenses? She'd have to use a car to hurt me, and a lorry to teach me a lesson.

Originally posted by Scottish
Of Course. Beat them "lightly".

That makes it wonderful, does it not? Unless you're the one being lightly beaten? Under whose opinion is "lightly".

And it matters not your "justification", it is barbaric to "lightly" beat someone you purported love. I suppose, it would be dandy for wife to lightly beat me for same offenses? She'd have to use a car to hurt me, and a lorry to teach me a lesson.

well under no ones opinion , becouse thats not from my mind , thats what all quran translations say, that means it is Gods words so no any discusion should be made about it . by the way the one who you love is not always in the right path becouse we are humen being and we do mistakes,

Originally posted by Scottish
Of Course. Beat them "lightly".

That makes it wonderful, does it not? Unless you're the one being lightly beaten? Under whose opinion is "lightly".

And it matters not your "justification", it is barbaric to "lightly" beat someone you purported love. I suppose, it would be dandy for wife to lightly beat me for same offenses? She'd have to use a car to hurt me, and a lorry to teach me a lesson.

i dont think that you know what is islam means so pls dont just say somthin you dont know .

i dont think that you know what is islam means so pls dont just say somthin you dont know .

Very rude. I can say the same to you on many subjects.

that means it is Gods words so no any discusion should be made about it

And why not? If I "lightly" beat her, and she's in the hospital. I have nothing to answer for? Rather sick.

by the way the one who you love is not always in the right path becouse we are humen being and we do mistakes,

And that justifies a beating? Who makes the opinion on the right path?

I suppose, by advancing your logic train forward. If I feel you are not right, and not on the right path. I should lightly beat you, to help you along to the right way of thinking. After all, we are all children under Gods eyes, and I love you enough to try to help enlighten you. A good light beating never hurt anyone.

Go to a shelter, and tell them how Islam is perfectly legitimate in their spouses lightly beating them. Good luck.

Your opinion that I should not speak out on Islam, is precisely the problem. Closed debate is no debate. It leads to a closed mind, ignorance and failure.