The other day i was sitting with an uncle of mine and he was reading about this economist named Steven Levitt, anybody ever heard of him? Well he has a theory that abortion prevents crime. Mainly, it goes that abortion leads to less unwanted children, and when children are unwanted, they are generally neglected, abused, etc. When that happens, as studys have proven, they are more likely to commit crimes. If there weren't all of those extra children, then those extra crimes wouldn't happen, therefore leading to abortion helps prevent crime, as proven then, by the crime drop since the legalization of abortion in the 70s. What are your views on it?!!

Excellent topic, don't know if it should be in politics or somewhere else, but we'll see the mod's decision?

Her XLNC,
I totally agree with Levitt!! The situation in Oman is even worst than that .... you are NOT allowed an abortion even if it is proven clinically that the child will have a severe diformity or will die at birth believe it or not!!!!

Originally posted by Seham
Her XLNC,
I totally agree with Levitt!! The situation in Oman is even worst than that .... you are NOT allowed an abortion even if it is proven clinically that the child will have a severe diformity or will die at birth believe it or not!!!!

*9ara7a 7aram 3alihom, I mean if the kid is diformed or will die or you will burn with a disease wela shay then why to make him suffer and bring him into this life?
well i dont quite agree abt the part of the un-wanted kids, there are alot of kids who have been abused and were un-wanted by their parents will still able to survive and became successful in their life

Ok everyone, wheater you agree with it or not, go to WWW.ABORTIONTV.COM, after you visit that website, tell me how you feel about abortion. After you read the sickening and sad stories about abortions, tell me that you think its ok. After you research it, and learn the facts, tell me how you feel about it. I think its ABO****ELY terrible, no matter what.
:(

The thread is locked , cause it’s not a Political Topic.
So , I close the tread.
Admin may shift it where it suits.

To start with abortion is a sin in the Religion point of View...and even if 2 ppl were married but the woman did not want to child .. it is still a sin!!

So what excatly do you want us to talk about?! becuase the bottom line its 100% sinful...got nothing more to add!

well Neena..it is a SIN .. but i do knwo ppl still doing it!! but r their listners 2 hear us cry out loud...that its Haraam..!!

exactly, abortion is haram.

If you just take the logical path of where what Steven Levitt was trying to find a solution to, you will find that that they are discussing adultry, and not really unwanted children, he is saying people should have sex as much as they like, with whoever they like because at the end if they abort children that could be born by mistake, then there is no problem. The real reason of crime is adultry and not the unallowence of abortion.

I am against abortion, because it is "killing" of a human soul, it all depends on the ethics of an individual, and your meaning of life. A baby in his mothers womb is a living organisim, in our Islamic system, we are not supposed to need abortion because we don't allow pre-marital sex nor sexual relationships outside marriage, of course there are expection when the life of the either the mother or the child could be in risk, abortion should be undertaken.

It will be a normal thing one day in Oman whether it is a sin or not!! Look the banks that operate on interest in Oman..... 90% of Omanis have their money into them... no one speaks!!

The idea is just new to you..... abortion should be a personal thing and no body's business... if a woman wants to have one it is upto her!! Just like if you want to put your money in a bank that provides interest which is a sin too..... it should be upto the individual!!

Seham, do you think that a mother has the right to KILL her child?

Abortion is done at less than 24 weeks of conception at the point it is NOT a child. Born below 24 would never survive!! After 24 it'd be alive and then it would be 'murder' if aborted!!

ok i dont agree with abortions but but what stevet levitt said makes absoulute sense. if you think of it religiously then having diformed children is a test from allah. i think the hole topic is alot more complecated then this and now after what her xlnc said im totaly confused. mmmmmmmm ill just sit back and see what you guys have to say

Originally posted by Seham
Abortion is done at less than 24 weeks of conception at the point it is NOT a child. Born below 24 would never survive!! After 24 it'd be alive and then it would be 'murder' if aborted!!

It all depens on a person's ethics; how you define life and death, and what does being alive really means to a person. You consider an embroy less than 24 weeks as a trashable object?

Originally posted by BLuE_Chi
It all depens on a person's ethics; how you define life and death, and what does being alive really means to a person. You consider an embroy less than 24 weeks as a trashable object?
Just like an ovum & a sperm .... would you consider them as dead or alive???

I would consider a settled fertilized egg as a living organism.

Living things can live independently.... a fertilized egg cannot live without the womb. At 24 wks it can live without the womb but with some human/medical help that is when it is really alive..... on the other hand a fertilized egg would never live outside the womb with or without human interventions, hence it is not really a living thing!

how can we even consider abortion? its like killing something/someone thats going to become a living soul

It is even forbidden in our islamic religion .....

whats so smart about abortion? Avoiding crime?
I believe its a crime itself

Being dependent does not mean that it does not have a soul or is not a living organism! There are some handicapped individuals that do not have any conciousness or could seem to have no meaning to their existence as they don't feel nor manage to communicate with the other world, but this does not mean that they should be considered as mere objects because. Thinking of it soul wise, you can't really tell when life really starts.

Living things can live independently.... a fertilized egg cannot live without the womb. At 24 wks it can live without the womb but with some human/medical help that is when it is really alive..... on the other hand a fertilized egg would never live outside the womb with or without human interventions, hence it is not really a living thing!

Long time ago, an embroy that is 6 months old would have never been able to carry on living on outside the women womb nor the available medical treatments of previous times, there is no proof that a near by future might find a method of maintaining the life of a fertalized egg, just teh the same a 24 weeks can live now, new health technologies might manage to save a 2 weeks embryo, you cannot simply judge life according to current time technologies. :rolleyes:

No woman gets an abortion by 24wks. Most women get an abortion early in pregnancy or as soon as she knows i.e. by 8 wks or latest by 12 wks, as an abortion may compromise her life as the fetus grows.

I am not saying women should be allowed an abortion freely, all I am saying it should be an alternative somewhere along the line and thourgh councelling should be provided. Examples of such cases:

- Pregnancies that will produce a newborn affected with severe and fatal genetic disorders i.e. the newborn may die within days/months of birth.

- Women who got pregnant as a result of rape! Why should a woman go ahead with a pregnancy from a man she never wanted and would hate for the rest of her life. It is like we know that the child is not wanted from the day it is born.

So all I am saying it should be legalized for cases like the above and a few others.

For your knowledge we get many cases in hospitals in Oman where women or even their male relatives begging with tears to get an abortion pill. Don't you think that's so 'ignorant' and inhumane to say to her get lost we don't care how you got pregnant and it is illegal!!! You know what happens to this woman then:

- She comes back to the hospital with an attempted suicide, she either takes an overdosage with some easily available drugs which in one way or another results an abortion but with other consequences such as liver failure because of the overdosage. So she eventually suffers and dies slowly as the hospital cannot perform a liver transplant.

- She kills herself with the fetus or gets killed by a MALE relative because she brought disgrace to the family.

- She goes to someone who performs such things illegally and in a non healthy way which compromises her life.

- She manages to go ahead with the pregnancy secretly but once she delivers, she dumbs the baby at a rubbish bin or a hospital door.

I haven't made up the above stories they are true events.

You can't stop pre-merital affairs so you might as well prevent bringing children that increase crime rate because they know they came to this world NOT wanted and dumbed in a rubbish bin..... that is what I call 'trashing a child' not when they are a 'fertilized egg'.

Well exactly, I've been saying the same thing from the start, read my very first post, I don't think that abortion should be allowed, but there should be some exceptions.

Even though they start the abortion at the early stages of pregnancy , I still dont support the idea

Okay blu chi , u might be right .. sometimes there r exeptions but it doesnt make it alright but yet neccessary so thats alright
But I dont believe that it actually prevents crime ...

Making abortion available for everyone would increase rape and adultry I think.

Originally posted by BLuE_Chi
Making abortion available for everyone would increase rape and adultry I think.

very very true
I love u for saying that

Well - i don;t think if i were to ever get pregnante that i would think of Abortion you know why?!!

Abortion is so painful and for srue very risky than one going through delivery.....!

I wouldn’t know how to explain to you the process of abortion.. as a lot of those women who went through such an experience 99% of them would tell you had i known that it was that hard and painful - i would rather keep my child!

I have not really seen a woman yet going through it with my own eyes - but i had someone telling it to me as he did witness the girl going through abortion here in OMAN.

She girl lost conches ... she stop breathing - and she was bleeding like hell... . This guy could not sleep for a while week... as the image of the girl was still in his head. The girl went into coma... but thankfully after few days she started recovering.. but she really lost a lot of blood..!

During the process of having an Abortion - a woman can easily just loss her Life.. yes even while Delivering one can loss her life but the risk Percentage during Abortion is much higher!

The reason behind crime is far much complicated than just Abortion .... Abortion may be contributing just a Fraction of the Problem ... its merely a main reason

Don't forget the concept of slippery slope!

Once you make exceptions, and once society agrees on abortion in some cases, sooner or later, we'll reach a point where we can't define our limits, and we won't know exactly where to stop, and it would be an easy thing to KILL a living organism.

I do not agree at all about this abortion thingy not even one bit. And for those women out there who go and **** around all night long and with out using any sort of protection…. Being totally UN-reasonable and so screwed up in the head… than you don’t even have to be so low to the extend of going for abortion.. you have already done one Huge mistake sleeping around now you want to do another huge mistake by killing the child?! Why/!

I will never support this as long it has nothing to do with putting the woman at risk and it is not like a medicale issue than hell no...!!

"Women there are condoms you know which just made for women.. USE protection - thats the least you can use ur heads for!:tiered:

Originally posted by Neena
I will never support this as long it has nothing to do with putting the woman at risk and it is not like a medicale issue than hell no...!!



never say never!! sometimes $hit just happen.

well personally, i think it's 7aram to get rid of what's in the woman's womb. because abortion is 7aram. why do we want to get rid this ne3ma we never know what's behind him/her coming to this worls.... maybe it's the best for for this child to come to life.... even if he/she is going to be ill but maybe ALLAH wants us to learn something from it.

THe key factor in refusing adoption to me is beleiving in Allah.

because someone is making a sin "or the whole country as you mentioned" it doesnt make another thing right.

Abortion is killing of a human living because if the fetus was just given the chance it might a happy person in this life!! everything is under Allah's hand and getting an abortion means you are giving a way a gift Allah has given to you.

When a person commits a sin like adultry, she just realise how wrong and disgrace to her family it is when she has a baby??!!!!
Maybe its Allah's will that she will get a child as a way to redeem from her great sin!!

when its rape, its again fate!! everything in this life is, some incidents in someone's life might change thier whole life!!! Its just Allah's will, like those people who happen to have accidents for example that make them paralyzed!! its a traumatized thing too, but accepting Allah's will is the key way to overcome it.

Attemting Suicide by itself is a sin, so we cant use another sin to make the first sin go away!!! Yes these attmepts might lead to dangrous situations, but its them who put themselves in that situation!!

Even if the child is clinicly to be proven to have any deficiency, it was how Allah inteded it to happen! what if you had a perfect baby, and one day he is passing the street and was hit by a car and becomes paralyzed or handicapped?! can you change that here??? why are you accepting Allah's will in somecases and refusing them in others.

I agree with Dr N, when you open the door once, it is hard to get it closed!!!

Originally posted by Neena
you have already done one Huge mistake sleeping around now you want to do another huge mistake by killing the child?! Why/!

Exactly,

After commiting a sin, they will still want to cover that sin by committing a bigger sin.. thinking that they are safe and no one will ever know the little dirty secrect.. but in the end it goes back to haunt them..

Doing the abortion in my opinion is more like killing a person not just any person but an innocent one that no one has the right to kill it what so ever..

so who are we to judge that we should do the abortion thing.. if the child is predicted that it is going to die or be abnormal.. how could that be true.. sometimes the dr.s are just saying it without being certain about it. Even if, no woman or man is allowed to decide if the child should be aborted or no.. we should accept them as they are, no matter what..

A child should only be removed from her mother's womb only if it is dead already..

other cases than that in my opinion are unacceptable.

Originally posted by Big MO
never say never!! sometimes $hit just happen.

MO - its never for me ... no way would i come across on having to actually go for abortion just because i am not ready to have a baby!! NO .. it is like murder !!

Originally posted by Arabian Princess
THe key factor in refusing adoption to me is beleiving in Allah.


I am not sure if i actually understood that right - so please arby can you just make it more clear before i even make a comment!

Even though abortion is haraam, because us humans have no right to control life, I think that there are some small benefits.

At least you wouldn't have many unwanted children in this world. It just seems like so many children have no homes, no love and are not cared for. They feel loveless and it's as though they're a burden to someone.

Originally posted by Neena
MO - its never for me ... no way would i come across on having to actually go for abortion just because i am not ready to have a baby!! NO .. it is like murder !!

murder!!!!!!! at 8 weeks all major organs are still not well developed.

Originally posted by Big MO
murder!!!!!!! at 8 weeks all major organs are still not well developed.

But still, how can a mother get rid of something so wonderful and tiny that is growing inside her?!!

Originally posted by Phoenix
Even though abortion is haraam, because us humans have no right to control life, I think that there are some small benefits.

At least you wouldn't have many unwanted children in this world. It just seems like so many children have no homes, no love and are not cared for. They feel loveless and it's as though they're a burden to someone.

Abortion wouldn't have been in practice if women did not sleep around "that is for sure". :duh: ... so i still don;t see the benefit that we are talking about here at all.. because it makes one so bloody heartless for sure.


murder!!!!!!! at 8 weeks all major organs are still not well developed.

It is big time conciderd murder .. forget about it in the eys of the Human... but its in the eys of god dear!!

Its haram
Simple as that ..

Originally posted by Blue_Chi
If you just take the logical path of where what Steven Levitt was trying to find a solution to, you will find that that they are discussing adultry, and not really unwanted children, he is saying people should have sex as much as they like, with whoever they like because at the end if they abort children that could be born by mistake, then there is no problem. The real reason of crime is adultry and not the unallowence of abortion.


Thank you Wise dude!! Its all about Adultry not Abortion!!

Neens, I mean abortion not adoptin .. sorrrrrrrry :blush:

Originally posted by Arabian Princess
Neens, I mean abortion not adoptin .. sorrrrrrrry :blush:

I thought so .. but had to really make sure :)

nice topic brother..
well about me i disagree with the idea of abortion and after all its a sin as u all said..

Originally posted by Seham
you are NOT allowed an abortion even if it is proven clinically that the child will have a severe diformity or will die at birth believe it or not!!!!

but i can say that u r wrong Seham about saying that coz if its clinically aproven that the child may have a severe diformity or will die at birth the doctors will adivce u to abort it .. and one more thing i dont know if anyone had mention it that it is harmful for the mother who is doing it coz it might lead her to bleed till death.. which mean she is taking a risk by doing that coz its dengrous ...

about u homeless saying its 7aram and ppl shouldnt do it ... what about the rest of the things which it is sin but still ppl do it and dont care ??!!!

Originally posted by Miss Naughty
...

about u homeless saying its 7aram and ppl shouldnt do it ... what about the rest of the things which it is sin but still ppl do it and dont care ??!!!

Well sure there are a lot of things which we know they are sinful and yet we do it intentionally or not.

But as for this - we are here talking about this specific sinful act.. so lets not spoil this thread and get into other stuff.. unless you want to open a whole thread about it than sure good idea! :)

I have to admit that I have been a reason for a honki girl (from Hong Kong) to drop her baby. I felt very bad I did that, because I was telling her not to give birth to a child where you don't have someone to show it as it's father. She went and dropped the baby, I don't know what was she thinking about when I said that, but I told her on her face the time she said to me she's pregnant, and she's having a baby for her boyfriend who broke up with her... So I asked her not to give birth because later this child will ask you about his/her father and you will have no one to say this is dady and then I said you're like a sister to me and my best friend.
As of the chinese culture as most of my chinese friends said "a ******* or a child without father is considered some third rated" or something like that... I don't really understand the concept but that's how they say.

However, as a best friend's advice she dropped the child, and now when I read this I feel I have made a sin. I think it will not go off from me even if I pray my whole life. It looks like I killed an innocent who didn't know anything about this world and before he/she came I became a reason to its death. I think whatever tears or anything I do will not wash away this sin from me. I admit I've done something wrong by admitting I've killed this baby although I didn't do it, but its mom did it because of my advice.