Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "A matron should not be given in marriage except after consulting her; and a virgin should not be given in marriage except after her permission." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! How can we know her permission?" He said, "Her silence (indicates her permission)."


Narrated 'Aisha:

I said, "O Allah's Apostle! A virgin feels shy." He said, "Her consent is (expressed by) her silence."


From the above two hadieths, when the parents or any other member of the family come to ask their daughter her opinion about a proposal for marriage. Her permission can be identified by her silence.

The question is, do today girls keep silent in such suitations or they express their feelings, permission by talking and shouting?

Originally posted by IceTea
do today girls keep silent in such suitations or they express their feelings, permission by talking and shouting?

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In this century Icy, I doubt women keep silent when their father comes to them with a proposal. I am sure they must at least say the minimum, even if they don't directly give him an answer on the same day.. out of shyness or else.

As you are probably talking about the Omani culture here, I think it will be better for the female members to give their opinion. If they don't give an answer to their father, maybe they give it to their mother. Maybe the girls from the interior react differently than the girls from the city.

Shouting?!...why would they do such a thing?...unless it is Icy proposing ;)

Originally posted by IceTea
The question is, do today girls keep silent in such suitations or they express their feelings, permission by talking and shouting?

Nice topic Icy...

OK, I do agree with you but not always the case, let say if the girl is shy and pleased with man would remain silence or nod her head that would be taken as her consent.

But how can one remain silence if she isn't happy with the man? how would she express her opinion if didn't talk about it, let alone shouting?

I doubt the authenticity of this hadith. It sounds to me like a hadith written by someone who wanted to make things convenient. There hundreds of hadiths which are of doubtful authenticity, the majority of which were started during the Ummayad (mu3awiyeen) dynasty. For some reason the Ummayads loved attributing these doubtful hadiths to Abu Huraira.

By the way, in the shi3i mathhab, silence is not accepted from a girl. When the shaikh comes to take her consent for marriage she must speak out and say that she accepts the marriage. Silence is not considered a confirmation of her consent.

Originally posted by X-press
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As you are probably talking about the Omani culture here, I think it will be better for the female members to give their opinion. If they don't give an answer to their father, maybe they give it to their mother. Maybe the girls from the interior react differently than the girls from the city.


I can see your point Exy, that it's rare to find a girl will just react with a smile and no words. But to say the truth I believe it's the nature of some girls to behave in such a polite way and this doesn't mean they are not educated or shy to say any word rather then a natural reaction which is good.

Beside that this is considered the last step for the girl to take her opinion, which means she already know about the guy proposing and gave her opinion about him.

Originally posted by X-press
[
Shouting?!...why would they do such a thing?...unless it is Icy proposing ;)

If it's me then I believe the girl will shout from happiness :D

Originally posted by H-Highness
Nice topic Icy...

OK, I do agree with you but not always the case, let say if the girl is shy and pleased with man would remain silence or nod her head that would be taken as her consent.

But how can one remain silence if she isn't happy with the man? how would she express her opinion if didn't talk about it, let alone shouting?

H-H,

Maybe the equation is like this:

Silence with a smile means Yes
Silence without a smile means No

Originally posted by mux
I doubt the authenticity of this hadith. It sounds to me like a hadith written by someone who wanted to make things convenient. There hundreds of hadiths which are of doubtful authenticity, the majority of which were started during the Ummayad (mu3awiyeen) dynasty. For some reason the Ummayads loved attributing these doubtful hadiths to Abu Huraira.


This is a famous hadith and it's a true hadith from "Sahih Bukhari".

Originally posted by mux

By the way, in the shi3i mathhab, silence is not accepted from a girl. When the shaikh comes to take her consent for marriage she must speak out and say that she accepts the marriage. Silence is not considered a confirmation of her consent.

Does this mean that they are not following profet sunnah when it comes to this issue?

I've heard of some who stay silent, of some who whisper and of some who speak loud and clear. Depends on the girl.

The hadith indicates that a virgin, who is usually shy, would be silent out of embarrassment so her silence is a sign of her accepting. It is not that she HAS to be silent but rather it is allowed...

Originally posted by H-Highness
But how can one remain silence if she isn't happy with the man? how would she express her opinion if didn't talk about it, let alone shouting? [/B]

Sad but true there a lot of cases that girls are forced to marry a man whom she doenst even know let side that she doenst like him :angre: It doesnt count if you shout:fire: or cry:weep: day/night or :bang: no body listen:6:

I know many cases but won't bore you :sorry:

umm, really I don't know how girls respond nowadays, but I'm sure that depends on the girl herself, her personality, and whether she has the ability to speak up or whether she is just too shy to say something, but I guess if she doesn't like the guy, she would probably say something, because then she has to give an opinion, no need to be shy!!

What if some girl stays silent because she's afraid of speaking out and that gets considered as 'agreeing'?

'Silence is not always an affirmative emotion'

well Islam obligates the shiekh or AlMullah to aprove the marriage only when the girl is acceptance.....
how does the mullah know if the girl wants to marry the man or not????
and is there any chance that the mullah get to listen to the girl's opinion in the marriage????

The question is, do today girls keep silent in such suitations or they express their feelings, permission by talking and shouting?

well not all your fingers are the same......

there are girls who talk , argue with their parents giving reasons for wanting the marriage or refusing. it 's all depends on the girl.

Originally posted by runnin' around
I've heard of some who stay silent, of some who whisper and of some who speak loud and clear. Depends on the girl.

The hadith indicates that a virgin, who is usually shy, would be silent out of embarrassment so her silence is a sign of her accepting. It is not that she HAS to be silent but rather it is allowed...


I think that's it..

In this century though, most girls would actually at least say something.

Well in our weddings, the sheikh has to hear the girl say " I do", clearly and loudly to marry them, and if he doesn't hear he, he'd tell her to say it again, so there you go!

Originally posted by runnin' around
I've heard of some who stay silent, of some who whisper and of some who speak loud and clear. Depends on the girl.

The hadith indicates that a virgin, who is usually shy, would be silent out of embarrassment so her silence is a sign of her accepting. It is not that she HAS to be silent but rather it is allowed...

And if you want to speak what would you say, yes or no, so it's better to stay silent. Because you will only have one chance to be silent in your life in such occations. And even if the girl divorced for some reason and get married again she will not be vergin.

So girls take this chance and expereince the feeling of the silence when your mother or father come to you asking for final approval and giving them the green light :D

Originally posted by nana
well Islam obligates the shiekh or AlMullah to aprove the marriage only when the girl is acceptance.....
how does the mullah know if the girl wants to marry the man or not????
and is there any chance that the mullah get to listen to the girl's opinion in the marriage????

Well the Shiekh should be clever enough to know if he follows profet Mohammed PBUH saying.

If a girl choose to be silent, it doesn't necessarily means that she agrees.. unless she nods positively with her head.

Silent or not, I am sure she will still later on talk to her mother about it and if she in fact meant to say "no" then the mother can deliver the message to the father.

A bit complicate I think, but it probably happens in some families.

Well there is something called body and face expression.
People dont just communicate oraly.. You can show the other part your opinion just by your face expression. and alhamdulila everyone of us knows how to do so.

I think its fine. it just depends on:
how close you are to your parents to discuss and answer freely.or you can just express yourself by being silent. and i dont think they wont understand their kid who lived with them all of her life.

anyway, its all good. it just depend on the girl and the way she was brought up.

and shyness is such a nice word :)

as najah pointed out. i guess one would really know from the girls face expressions after recieving such news. and even if silent it will show if she agrees or not..if she's happy or sad , scared or even shocked!

her being silent about it shouldnt be treated as a sign of approval.

Originally posted by IceTea
H-H,

Maybe the equation is like this:

Silence with a smile means Yes
Silence without a smile means No

I dismis this one :fire:

I think I would agree to what has been pointed out with some members in here. The girl could remain silence at the time her parents/guardians ask her consent but its known fact that Sheikh should take her consent either its YES or NO. You can't just stare and smile at him meaning that you accepted that marriage.

Originally posted by IceTea

The question is, do today girls keep silent in such suitations or they express their feelings, permission by talking and shouting?

Well, nowadays the girl says "yes" or "no". I dont know if there are girls who just stay silent.

Icy as for the screaming part, she'd only do that if her father had a hearing problem of some sort. :D

Originally posted by NaBHaN

her being silent about it shouldnt be treated as a sign of approval.

Umm I'm going to have to disagree here Nabs. If it was good enough for the women in the Prophet's (PBUH) days than it's fine now too. Some women ARE just too shy...

You must consider that there are still girls around who have never been in the company of anyone besides their family men and are painfully shy of strangers....

We're not all the same...some women still prefer sitting at home and knitting and think going to a cafe is barbarious. The Prophet considered this and gave them the right to keep quiet.

Women may have moved along lots and changed from the past to now but it's in the female's nature to be shy.

:rolleyes:

Back to Sabla...

One point here:

To understand more about the interpretation of Quran & hadeeth, in some cases, it should be understand the events behind …

For second hadeeth.

Originally posted by IceTea

Narrated 'Aisha:

I said, "O Allah's Apostle! A virgin feels shy." He said, "Her consent is (expressed by) her silence." [/b]


[/B]

Women been dealing on daily basis at that time with ‘Aisha’ and some pointed out that womens & specially virgin were shy to say ‘ Yes I want him’ or such words in front of ppl at the time of marriage consent
Thus this was an Option ' for ‘shy’ virgin…..not something all virgin must or should do…

Till nowdays as members mentioned above u can find many of shy ones……:blush:

One more point u see many of “Mathons or Malleeks”, the guys who ask the girls, they are blind, so how u think its possible to understand her silent in such cases… ooh girls better to to break ur shyness for moment and don’t miss the lovely man coming to u…. :sorry:

dont think any girl will be silent, unless and until she is dumb....lol....... :D

Originally posted by runnin' around
Umm I'm going to have to disagree here Nabs. If it was good enough for the women in the Prophet's (PBUH) days than it's fine now too. Some women ARE just too shy...

You must consider that there are still girls around who have never been in the company of anyone besides their family men and are painfully shy of strangers....

We're not all the same...some women still prefer sitting at home and knitting and think going to a cafe is barbarious. The Prophet considered this and gave them the right to keep quiet.

Women may have moved along lots and changed from the past to now but it's in the female's nature to be shy.

Good reply, you saved me one :wink:

Originally posted by The brain.

One more point u see many of “Mathons or Malleeks”, the guys who ask the girls, they are blind, so how u think its possible to understand her silent in such cases… ooh girls better to to break ur shyness for moment and don’t miss the lovely man coming to u…. :sorry:


I don't think they are blind, and if one of them is blind then there should be another person with him to guide him to the right direction otherwise how he will no the location of the bride :D so the other person will notice her. Beside that if she agree and kept silente when the "Shaikh" asked her then he don't need to look at her.