Barbarians.

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20030324/i/1048514571.3422724183.jpg

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20030324/capt.sge.ntw27.240303114737.photo00.default-384x270.jpg

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20030324/mdf240679.jpg

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20030324/i/1048490258.3221233757.jpg

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030324/capt.1048492333.india_kashmir_massacre_sri103.jpg

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030324/capt.1048501236.india_kashmir_massacre_sri106.jpg
:fire:

Yes you are right. Who ever does it no matter.

Correct.

that's inhuman. where's is this?

This is Kashmir. Where terrorists sent over the border from Pakistan gunned down over 24 civilians.

They selected the Hindu Pandits and then cold bloodedly shot 24 of them, including 11 women and 2 children.

Actually if you look at the bottom picture, it is of the victims MUSLIM neighbours mourning their death.

Just goes to show you how this 'so called' conflict in Kashmir is nothing but a ploy by Pakistan to stir trouble in India.

The link gives some more information about this atrocity.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/kashmir/Story/0,2763,921391,00.html

Sanwin is trying as usual to send the ball back :rolleyes:

kashmir!!!! India says it's pakistan and Pakistan denies. and innocent people get murdered by the day. i read the Times of india this morning and it's really sad to see so many innocent peolpe being the victims of a stupid conflict.
why can't they just give Kashmir it's independet and i'm talking here about both India and Pakistan.

sanwin25,

You know very well that its on going thing between both the Muslims and the Hindu's .Terrorists ??
Are you refereing to both Hindu and Muslims or only muslims ? If you refer only to muslims kindly get your facts right and post pictures of what Hindu's have done as well .

Its got nothing to do with religion .. Its a case of who belongs where and some how some people pay for it due to some greedy politician from both sides.

Sanwin is trying as usual to send the ball back

Not sure what you mean by that.

This is a current event which has just happened.

Or shall we only concentrate on violence that affect Muslims ?

Nice setup sanwin25! You really got'em.

Many of the ladies in the pictures are wearing HIJAB. How can you argue that they are hindus and that this is damage done by muslims ?

Muslim women wear hijab .. Duh.

Use your brain, as we do ours.

Duh.

I use my brains.

Do you ?

Read the attached article before posting.

Otherwise you come across as an ignorant ***.

Use your brain, as we do ours.

Really?

Originally posted by Big MO
kashmir!!!! India says it's pakistan and Pakistan denies. and innocent people get murdered by the day. i read the Times of india this morning and it's really sad to see so many innocent peolpe being the victims of a stupid conflict.
why can't they just give Kashmir it's independet and i'm talking here about both India and Pakistan.

It is very sad...

I just wish that we could all live without any killings..:(

sanwin25

I have no reason to dispute your post, But we need sometime to use our common sense and judge the events, thus i am always against killings of any Human being either civilian nor inUniform,
But we should be careful with these Politician and media, many times if the government are in any sort of political trouble they can do anything to divert the attention of people somewhere else, so in another word i wouldnt be surprise if that killing were done by Indian government rather than people from Pakistan, the reason saying so, when the killing happens Indian Govenment Jumped and announced it was incited by Pakistan Government without any proof in hand neither evidence, The problem of Kashmir and killings of Innocent people is really carried out by the Govenment official to get oppurtunity to blame each other to direct the attention across the border:angre:

sanwin25,


choose between contributing constructive posts and departing the Sablah. I wish you ask me why ?

To-day is our Independence day. I was a freedom fighter. My father was shot on 28th of March, I fought my self against Pakistani Army. So, I do not have any blind sympathy for those people.
As I am from this sub-continent, I know the facts.
May I request you to go through the history written some neutral author. There was a UN resolution, which was drawn some time in 1948. From then the people of Kashmir is struggling for self-determination. They have become the pawn of both the countries.
Kashmir is one of the main reasons for the unrest between Indo-Pak.
We are against any type of terrorist activities.
As I consider the aggression on Iraq is also terrorist activities by the rough countries.

I wonder why all you guys don't have all these doubts and questions when it is Muslims that get killed. Then you all rush to judgement and condemn the alleged perpetrator. But turn things around and, hmm, lets investigate, hmm must have been someone else, hmm UN resolutions..

Quit being such a bunch of hypocrites.

Hypocrites !!!

Originally posted by sanwin25
Actually if you look at the bottom picture, it is of the victims MUSLIM neighbours mourning their death.


Talk about a long shot !!!

I thought that, according to many, Muslims and Hindus did not get well together in Kashmir. And this happens to be the one rare picture where Muslims are weeping over thier hindu neighbours.

Maybe the first picture is of hindu women weeping over muslims murdered by indian hindu's. How do you know ?

thought that, according to many, Muslims and Hindus did not get well together in Kashmir.

Obviously you thought wrong.

See, you learn something new every day.

Originally posted by sanwin25
Obviously you thought wrong.

See, you learn something new every day.

You start to become sarcastic because you cannot argue. Very childish.

You call making blanket statements arguing ?

Originally posted by sanwin25
I wonder why all you guys don't have all these doubts and questions when it is Muslims that get killed. Then you all rush to judgement and condemn the alleged perpetrator. But turn things around and, hmm, lets investigate, hmm must have been someone else, hmm UN resolutions..

Quit being such a bunch of hypocrites.

Oh yes look who is talking here .....
Hypocrites ??
Let me define the word Hypocrite for you sir ..
1- When you claim to be a friend and turn to our enemy and support them blindly.
2- When you say we are here to free Iraq and your aim is their wealth ( OIL)
3- When all the world sign for treaty of WMD you use the veto to support Israel by saying they have to protect themseleves and yet you are the ones who are crying loud for removal of any type of WMD and funny you got loads of them .
The lsit is too long .
I rest my case ...

:cool:

DS,

Dos that smiley mean that you have put on your blinkers since you do not wish to learn the truth ?

:gap:

Originally posted by sanwin25
You call making blanket statements arguing ?

Yes.

I am making points that you are not responding to.

sanwin25,


“hmm UN resolutions..”

What do you mean by that, please? Is this a new information to you? Do you know there were a resolution for referendum for Kashmir?

UN Resolution ? Let me see if I can remember..... Ah yes, I suppose you mean this one ?

RESOLUTION ADOPTED BY THE UNITED NATIONS COMMISSION FOR INDIA AND PAKISTAN ON 13 AUGUST 1948. (DOCUMENT NO. S/1100, PARA 75, DATED THE 9TH NOVEMBER, 1948)

THE UNITED NATIONS COMMISSION FOR INDIA AND PAKISTAN

Having given careful consideration to the points of view expressed by the Representatives of India and Pakistan regarding the situation in the State of Jammu and Kashmir, and

Being of the opinion that the prompt cessation of hostilities and the coercion of conditions the continuance of which is likely to endanger international peace and security are essential to implementation of its endeavors to assist the Governments of India and Pakistan in effecting a final settlement of the situation.

Resolves to submit simultaneously to the Governments of India and Pakistan the following proposal

PART I

CEASE-FIRE ORDER

The Governments of India and Pakistan agree that their respective High Commands will issue separately and simultaneously a cease- fire order to apply to all forces under their control in the State of Jammu and Kashmir as of the earliest practicable date or dates to be mutually agreed upon within four days after these proposals have been accepted by both Governments.

The High Commands of Indian and Pakistan forces agreed to refrain from taking any measures that might augment the military potential of the forces under their control in the State of Jammu and Kashmir. (For the purpose of these proposals "forces under their control shall be considered to include all forces, organized and unorganized, fighting or participating in hostilities on their respective sides).

The Commanders-in-Chief of the Forces of India and Pakistan shall promptly confer regarding any necessary local changes in present dispositions which may facilitate the cease-fire.

In its discretions and as the Commission may find practicable, the Commission will appoint military observers who under the authority of the Commission and with the co-operation of both Commands will supervise the observance of the cease-fire order.

The Government of India and the Government of Pakistan agree to appeal to their respective peoples to assist in creating and maintaining an atmosphere favorable to the promotion of further negotiations.

PART II

TRUCE AGREEMENT

Simultaneously with the acceptance of the proposal for the immediate cessation of hostilities as outlined in Part I, both Governments accept the following principles as a basis for the formulation of a truce agreement, the details of which shall be worked out in discussion between their Representatives and the Commission.


(l) As the presence of troops of Pakistan in the territory of the State of Jammu and Kashmir constitutes a material change in the situation since it was represented by the Government of Pakistan before the Security Council, the Government of Pakistan agrees to withdraw its troops from that State.

(2) The Government of Pakistan will use its best endeavor to secure the withdrawal from the State of Jammu and Kashmir of tribesmen and Pakistan nationals not normally resident therein who have entered the State for the purpose of fighting.

(3) Pending a final solution the territory evacuated by the Pakistan troops will be administered by the local authorities under the surveillance of the Commission.

(1) When the Commission shall have notified the Government of India that the tribesmen and Pakistan nationals referred to in Part II A 2 hereof have withdrawn, thereby terminating the situation which was represented by the Government of India to the Security Council as having occasioned the presence of Indian forces in the State of Jammu and Kashmir, and further, that the Pakistan forces are being withdrawn from the State of Jammu and Kashmir, the Government of India agrees to begin to withdraw the bulk of their forces from the State in stages to be agreed upon with the Commission

(2) Pending the acceptance of the conditions for a final settlement of the situation in the State of Jammu and Kashmir, the Indian Government will maintain within the lines existing at the moment of cease-fire the minimum strength of its forces which in agreement with the Commission are considered necessary to assist local authorities in the observance of law and order. The Commission will have observers stationed where it deems necessary.

(3) The Government of India will undertake to ensure that the Government of the State of Jammu and Kashmir will take all measures within their power to make it publicly known that peace, law and order will be safeguarded and that all human and political rights will be guaranteed.

(1) Upon signature, the full text of the Truce Agreement or communiqué containing the principles thereof as agreed upon between the two Governments and the Commission, will be made public.

PART III

The Government of India and the Government of Pakistan reaffirm their wish that the future status of the State of Jammu and Kashmir shall be determined in accordance with the will of the people and to that end, upon acceptance of the Truce Agreement both Governments agree to enter into consultations with the Commission to determine fair and equitable conditions whereby such free expression will be assured.


Now lets see, which part of this very same resolution has Pakistan complied with ? (hint : NONE. Pay attention to the item highligted in RED). The resolution is to be implemented SEQUENTIALLY. Pakistan is to withdraw its invading troops BEFORE the remaining items can be addressed.

See I know lots about UN resolutions.

How much do you know ?

UN Resolution (http://www.ummah.org.uk/kashmir/unres/res6.htm)

It's become known world wide that UN resolutions aren't worth the paper they are written on.

Originally posted by Old_Glory
It's become known world wide that UN resolutions aren't worth the paper they are written on.

thanks to the US and Israel.

Big Mo,

I wish we could get Shams to respond in some fashion other than his hit and run style of posting.

Originally posted by sanwin25
Big Mo,

I wish we could get Shams to respond in some fashion other than his hit and run style of posting.

i think the guy lives in Bengladish. so i guess it's a bit late now there.

but i hope that we could have discussions in here without disrespecting each other. our views might differ but respect remains. i've seen too much fighting around here lately.

Many of the ladies in the pictures are wearing HIJAB. How can you argue that they are hindus and that this is damage done by muslims ?

This is for Naturally.

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20030325/i/1048601128.3959504977.jpg
A Kashmiri Hindu woman cries as her Muslim neighbors try to comfort her in the village of Nadimarg, 75 kms (47 miles) south of Srinagar, March 25, 2003. India's Deputy Prime Minister Lal Krishna Advani and leader of India's main opposition Congress Party Sonia Gandhi visited the village where Hindus said on Tuesday they wanted to leave the Muslim majority region after twenty-four people, including women and children, were shot dead by suspected Muslim rebels.REUTERS/Fayaz Kabli

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20030325/i/1048608642.3288555604.jpg
Muslim villagers carry a body through a mustard field in the village of Nadimarg, 75 kms (47 miles) south of Srinagar, March 24, 2003. Suspected Muslim militants, disguised in army uniforms, shot dead 24 Hindus in a remote village in Indian Kashmir (news - web sites) after ordering them to line up outside their homes, police said on Monday. REUTERS/Fayaz Kabli

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20030324/i/1048517957.4228055120.jpg
Kashmiri Muslim women watch the cremation of their Hindu neighbors at a village in Nadimarg, 75 kms (47 miles) south of Srinagar, March 24, 2003. Suspected Muslim militants, disguised in army uniforms, shot dead 24 Hindus in a remote village in Indian Kashmir (news - web sites) after ordering them to line up outside their homes, police said on Monday. REUTERS/Fayaz Kabli

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030324/capt.1048501307.india_kashmir_massacre_sri105.jpg
Soni, 30, wails as she holds the hands of a relative killed in Nadimarg, about 50 kilometers (30 miles) south of Srinagar, India, Monday March 24, 2003. Unidentified gunmen massacred 24 people in the Hindu village of Nadimarg in the Indian-controlled portion of Kashmir (news - web sites) early Monday, police said. (AP Photo/Rafiq Maqbool)

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030324/capt.1048501236.india_kashmir_massacre_sri106.jpg
Neighbors of killed Hindu villagers weep in Nadimarg, about 50 kilometers (30 miles) south of Srinagar, India, Monday March 24, 2003. Unidentified gunmen massacred 24 people in the Hindu village of Nadimarg in the Indian-controlled portion of Kashmir (news - web sites) early Monday, police said. (AP Photo/Rafiq Maqbool)

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20030324/i/1048490258.3221233757.jpg
Muslim women villagers wail near the shroud-covered bodies of Kashmiri Hindus at the village of Nadi Marg, 75 kms (47 miles) south of Srinagar March 24, 2003. Suspected Muslim militants shot dead 24 Hindus in disputed Kashmir (news - web sites), police said on Monday, in the worst violence since elections were held to try to bring peace to India's only Muslim-majority state. The militants stormed into the village of Nadi Marg, in the thickly forested mountainous region of Pulwama, on Sunday night and fired indiscriminately, police said. REUTERS/Fayaz Kabli

Read the capitions. They explain why some of the women were in hijab.

sanwin25,

it doesn't matter if they're hindus or muslims. what happened there is a crime against humanity. we shouldn't even be discussing that. it's inhuman and i hope whoever did it will be brought to justice wheather they're muslims, hindus or whatever.

Big Mo,

I agree with you 100%.

But just look at the reaction from certain members when I posted this thread.

Just read the comments posted by Dark Project, Naturally and our good friend, the moderator Shamsery.

In fact Desert Sloath even asked me to leave the forum since I was posting these kind of topics !

Does it not tell you something ?

FYI, I am not a Hindu, yet I am as appalled at this atrocity as I am when Muslims, and Christians and Jews get killed.

Originally posted by sanwin25
FYI, I am not a Hindu, yet I am as appalled at this atrocity as I am when Muslims, and Christians and Jews get killed.

Everyone agrees that murdering innocent civilians is bad. I am yet to see posts condemning, to the same extent, the jews or christians (American and British) for the murder and mayhem that they are causing on muslims and non-muslims throught the world.

The post of sanwin25 was designed to inflame feelings agains muslims. Remember that both muslims and hindus are getting killed in Kashmir. A balanced view is to mention both sides of the story. A post by dark_project asked for this immediately but you ignored it.

Stop this hypocricy.

Dear Mr.sanwin25,

1)Let me tale you categorically. I condemned any kinds of terrorist activities, killing of civilians.
Who ever he/she is. Are you clear?

2)Quote: See I know lots about UN resolutions.

How much do you know ?” Unquote.
Ans: Please read my signature.

3) “The Government of India and the Government of Pakistan reaffirm their wish that the future status of the State of Jammu and Kashmir shall be determined in accordance with the will of the people.”
Don’t you think both the government is not complying with the resolution?
We support the self-determination right of Kashmiri people ? Do you?
4) International focus mainly on Iraq. With my limited resources , I can not give much time on Sabla. Hope to discuss the issue in feature , My learned friend.

5) Lastly, it is no matter what religion you belong. You are very much welcome to post any topics , picture in the forum but look, it should not go against sabla rule. As Moderator I am to read each post and reply. So, consider my limitation too.

Shams,

Please re-read the resolution.

This is what has to be done FIRST.

(l) As the presence of troops of Pakistan in the territory of the State of Jammu and Kashmir constitutes a material change in the situation since it was represented by the Government of Pakistan before the Security Council, the Government of Pakistan agrees to withdraw its troops from that State.
(2) The Government of Pakistan will use its best endeavor to secure the withdrawal from the State of Jammu and Kashmir of tribesmen and Pakistan nationals not normally resident therein who have entered the State for the purpose of fighting.


Has Pakistan done it ? No, so the resolution cannot proceed till Pakistan fullfills it obligations under the treaty.

And finally, are you aware the Pakistan, the great defender of Kashmiri independance, does NOT OFFER KASHMIRI's the right to be independant ? According to Pakistan, they can only choose between India and Pakistan.

Waiting for your valuable response.

Naturally,

This forum is full to overflowing of posting crying about atrocities that Muslims are suffering.

It is good to realize that there are people of other religions that suffer equally as well.

But that does not go with your agenda of inflaming muslim passions against the others.

Please return you rose colored sunglasses to the nearest outlet.

They are distorting your sense of reality.

Originally posted by sanwin25
Naturally,

This forum is full to overflowing of posting crying about atrocities that Muslims are suffering.

It is good to realize that there are people of other religions that suffer equally as well.

But that does not go with your agenda of inflaming muslim passions against the others.

Please return you rose colored sunglasses to the nearest outlet.

They are distorting your sense of reality.


I can see that talking with you is getting no where. Your predugice is an integral part of your being.

Why ?

Do you have a different kind of prejudice ?

Sanwin,
That’s the tragedy of Kashmiri people .Neither India nor Pakistan are ready to welcome self-determination right of Kahmiri people.

Shams,

Good we are making progress. Now you admit that Pakistan has a role in the current unrest.

Who knows, one day you might admit that Pakistan is sponsoring the terrorist violence in the state.

We are concern with the self-determination right of Kashmiri people.
Neither we are advocating for Indians role over there nor Pakistanis role. Pakistan has extended the moral support to Kashmiri people for self-determination. None of the country thinks about Kashmiri peole.

Pakistan has extended the moral support to Kashmiri people for self-determination.

None of the country thinks about Kashmiri peole.


Both statements contradict each other.

Would moral support mean sending in terrorists across the border to kill Hindu Pandits ?

Do the Hindu Pandits also have rights ?

Hi Shams,

Just keeping your seat warm till you get back to this thread !

:gap: :gap:

Keeping it warm for you Shams.

Its nice and hot now Shams.

:gap: