Posted by Ayah:

MoonChild, you asked what motivated M5 to say that?

By the way, M5 is currently living in the U.S. (possible influence?!)

back to your question, allow me to speculate on the motive:
These are quoted from Wonderer (in the original thread only):

"even knowing that it had some misogynistic, anti-semitic, chittering, monkey-brained posters, because I knew she was above reproach"

"MoonChild would run circles around you in any college class"

"You are like a man though. Only smaller."

"You'd like to run for your Mama when you met me, boy."

"That's certainly the color he'll turn when he meets me."

" What do you expect people to reply to such a language?!"


Ayah, first you blame M5's behavior and slander against my wife as possibly being because he is in the US !!, then excuse it as a logical response to mean things I said to him and Navigator.

That's stupid.

a) his slander is an influence of Islam and Arab culture not the USA
b) he resorts to insulting my wife not me
c) much of what I said to him and Navigator was after he insulted my wife, not before

The real issue is not over how one expects M5 to respond, but how did anyone expect me to respond.

He resorted to insulting my wife, when he realized I was more than he could handle. As Navigator would too if he got his wish to try and kick me in the teeth. :)

MoonChild was only asking if insulting a 3rd party was an Islamic approach in her thread.

I think that it's mostly Arabic, just like your trying to justify it with half-truths, lies, and reversed cause and effect. Review the transcript.

some ppl drive on the right side while some do it on the left side


What is the purpose of this thread .. !!

Originally posted by Navy_boy
some ppl drive on the right side while some do it on the left side


What is the purpose of this thread .. !!

Any way dont bother your self, it is, as usual, a family private tradition.:D

I'm not actually ... coz u pass such in yr life time .. so get used to it

wondy:
I recommend you to refer this case to UN along with other arab cases, you might end by some cash, there is no solution for you here, just go to political sabla.:p

ÈÓã Çááå ÇáÑÍãä ÇáÑÍíã
(In the name of Allah the most beneficiel, and the most merciful)

Thanks for raising the issue again.. as it would help me, you, MoonChild, and other members understand this aspect of Islam more, Åä ÔÇÁ Çááå (by Allah's will)

Looking at the title of the thread, any person who doesn't try hard to follow Islam teachings, or who is influenced by Shaitan (Evil), would prepare and use some counter-attacks..

I am not saying I am the perfect Islamic example (neither claiming to be one of the elite best), I would just try, as a Muslim, to demonstrate the way in which we should reply according to the teachings of Islam given to us by Qur'an and Sunna (the life examples and sayings of prophet Muhammed peace and blessings be upon him)

First of all, what are we talking about?

If it was whether what M5 said is acceptable? Then the answer is clearly, as mentioned in the first thread, a big NO.. and I, among others in the sabla, are wondering where is he, and why haven't he apologized yet (may Allah guide him and all of us)

Please note that whatever I wrote was not in his defence..
the post was rather in the defence of Qur'an, as the actions of one (or few) person(s) is not necesserily a representation of Islamic or relegious teachings
(e.g. Christian seriel killers in the U.S. are in no-way representative of Christianity teachings)

As a proof of Islamic teachings, I posted a verse of Qur'an telling us what to do in case of being insulted or disrespected by anyone .. it clearly shows that we should not reply in the same way.. rather, reply back with a peacful heart and using the most possible gentle way .. this also clearly shows that if we were talked to nicely by anyone, then our reply should be nicer, or at least as nice..

If a muslim was the one to start it (or even react bad to it), then Allah's anger would be on him/her until he/she ask for forgiveness AND return the rights of those people he/she attacked (e.g. apologizing for words)

as of the mentioning of the U.S.
If you noticed clearly, it was a question whether living there is a "possible" influence, and not a statement that it is the major reason for his bad words..

Living in the states has good effects as well of course.. no one can neglect this fact.. but at the same time, there are "some" bad influences that "might" have helped in forming a certain attitude which "could" be "part" of the reason why M5 replied in that way.. we should mention here as well that even "Islamic" countries as Oman have good and bad effects as well..

I do apologize if you consider that statement as an insult to your country..

Having said that, this is in no-way a justification of saying such horrible words .. it is rather an attempt to clarify the real reasons why M5 said what he said, and proving that the Qur'an is actually teaching the very opposite.. This is not implying that you are the one who "started it," but rather an action or reaction of yours is possibly one reason of what triggered his horrible response

To sum it all up:
- Does Qur'an teach this? Absolutely NO, and you had one proof earlier from the very script of the Qur'an
- Was what M5 said is wrong? Absolutely YES, and he should at least apologize for that.. yet, this is caused by other reasons, and in no means is caused by Qur'an teachings..
MoonChild was only asking if insulting a 3rd party was an Islamic approach in her thread.
Absolutely NO, insulting ANYONE is not acceptable in Islam.. one proof is the very same verse.. there are more proofs if you need..

May Allah guide us All to the right path, and towards more respectful and beneficial discussions in this forum

Appreciate your reasoned response Ayah, I get what you are trying to say about Islam's teachings.

i like your post ayah:)

well said Ayah

I think it is enough to answer the questions ...

edited Navigator reason -> off topic edited by 4-ever-young

Originally posted by Ayah
Was what M5 said is wrong? Absolutely YES, and he should at least apologize for that..

Very good. You are one of the few who would actually state that M5 was wrong and that he should apologize.

Yes, I think M5 was wrong and should apologize..

That was my stance from the beginning, as that of most posters overhere..

Now I would appreciate if you also admit that whatever he said is not influenced or encouraged by Islam and Qur'an teachings..

Originally posted by Ayah
Now I would appreciate if you also admit that whatever he said is not influenced or encouraged by Islam and Qur'an teachings..

I don't know that to be true -

You yourself, suggested that it might be because he lives in the US :

"By the way, M5 is currently living in the U.S. (possible influence?!)"

I responded with:

"his slander is an influence of Islam and Arab culture not the USA"

then "I think that it's mostly Arabic, "

So before you can ask me to retract Islam as a possible cause, shouldn't you retract living in the USA as a possible cause ?

After all, which is stronger, US culture or Islam ?

In the name of Allah, the most beneficial, the most merciful

Arabs say
"Admitting the truth (even if you had an opposit opinion) is a virtue"

then "I think that it's mostly Arabic, "

I appreciate this slight change in your opinion..

remembering that its not a matter of "win-or-loose," but rather of "finding the truth"

Then you said:

So before you can ask me to retract Islam as a possible cause, shouldn't you retract living in the USA as a possible cause ?

What you are saying is logical, and if it wasn't "Islam" what we are talking about, I would have agreed with you.

As noted above, I mentioned that living in the U.S. has some positive and some negative influences as well. I was suggesting that M5 might have caught the negative influences and not the positive, which does not necesserily imply that negative influences in the U.S. are more than positive.

Now, why is Islam exceptional?
The reason is that we believe this religion (contrary to Arab, U.S., and all human cultures) is perfect because it came unchanged from the perfect; Allmighty Allah. You have the right to discuss this, but it would be another subject.

Allah says in the Qur'an:

"... This day I have perfected your religion for you and completed my favor to you. I have approved Islam to be your religion ..."
Chapter of Al-Ma'ida (5:3)

So in this way, we would retract any negative influence by Islam, because it is perfectly positive. If there seem to be any negative influences, it would then be from miscomprehension or neglection of Islam teachings derived from the imperfect nature and biasness of human beings.

As to your question:
After all, which is stronger, US culture or Islam ?

Islam has survived for 1400 years. Musilms have been the most powerful nation for most this period, when we were better following religion teachings. U.S. culture has many advantages, but its very new, and has an unpredicted future.

I would say, and you have the right to disagree, that Islam -when properly followed- is stronger because its a way of life created by the perfect allmighty Allah, as opposed to U.S. culture, which is created by limited (though very effecient and good-intended) human beings.

Summary:
Possible influences of M5's words:
1- Surrounding negative cultural influences (whether Arab, American, or other)
2- Forgetting, miscomprehending, or neglecting basic Islamic teachings
3- Other.. (I don't wanna go into that, since I don't really know what happened)

Thanks again Wanderer. You have made me think more critically about Islam, and yet found nothing imperfect, which has strengthen my faith. Alhamdulilah (Thanks and praises to Allah)

May Allah guide us all to the right path... Amen

Originally posted by Ayah
Summary:
Possible influences of M5's words:
1- Surrounding negative cultural influences (whether Arab, American, or other)
2- Forgetting, miscomprehending, or neglecting basic Islamic teachings
3- Other.. (I don't wanna go into that, since I don't really know what happened)



OK, or that it's not Islam or Arab cultural influence, but that M5's words are a reflection of a weakness in M5's personality - easily influenced, neglectful of his religion, and ill mannered.

That's probably closer to the truth than Islam being a cause.

I see your point. Good.