Arab women are challenging the traditions of their expected roles as wives and mothers. I think that these changes are great because women can finally claim their identity. Seeking higher education abroad will allow them to experience things they will most probably be sheltered from in their home countries. Its just too bad that men are so threatened by women seeking an equal education as them!

What do you think ?

DVD, you keep posting interesting topics and I am sure its more likely to have two groups in this case,

1. supportive to the idea.
2. none supportive.

I am excited to know what the girls who study abroad think about it!!

No doubt, studying outside the national borders could give anybody a wealthy experience. Every body recognize what are the advantages of being abroad whether for study or work. On the other hand, disadvantages are highly likely to strike at anytime while abroad. The thing about them that they are difficult to be noticed by the person but close friends around you like your family at home definitely notice that you have adversely affected. This is general for boys and girls.

I am really enjoying my time in England and even willing to stay for couple of years after graduating to work somewhere here. This is in itself could be classify as disadvantage by some people but I do respect their opinions!!!

Honestly, I don't oppose seeing girls abroad to study but I do prefer them to study at home or at least in an Islamic country. Girls, you need to know its a very BIG TEST :)

hi it is a very good topic..
well i'm studying abroad and i think there is no harm for the girl to study abroad as long as she can control herself and remember always that her family trusts her so she should be as what they think..
another thing, studying abroad is a very good expereince you tend to know lots of new things..people technology cultures..
and about the women seeking education ..well it is the same for men or women they all have to seek for education..
and byetheway studying abroad is not as bad as many of you think..the positive things are more than the bad ones.

Just take full advantage of your experience to prove that there is nothing wrong with beeing a girl and studying abroad:).

hi guys and guyaat ..
yep i agree with girls studying abroud as along as they know what they do there and how to behave and act(ofcourse same with guys) .. it is great when studying abroud to get experience and more knowledge ..

Will thank you for your nice posting.. it's good one..& i do agree with you with your thoughts but in addition i beleive woman can do her future & she can be a man competetar if she trust in her self & what she could do...
she don't need to go abroad to make her self even in her home she can do it.. the place ain't matter but the way to do is the most important...thanks

I think it's a very good thing.I mean why not if she trusted her self and her family trusted her. It will be a good experience, me my self I wanted to study out side the country but God wanted some thing else for me. I have many friends studying abrod but that doesn't change a thing in my opinion towards them. On the other hand it's better than staying at home. And also it's a chance for the girl to see how reliable she is.The time now has changed and we should never think it'll always be the same.Beside our country only has one university. And we have many young ppl wanting to complete their study. As I said before it's better than staying at home.

when I graduated from high school, i was kinda hoping i'd do something special. I applied to squ, and didn't get anything special to me. I kinda miss that oppurtunity of studying in oman, but hey, sometimes u gotta keep on moving.
Studying abroad is good...but can't help feeling that its not totally right. Hmmm, its a very complicated subject bcz then it means girlz can't have the same level of eduaction as boys nor the same experience, and we know this issue of m7rims abroad, so its very opposing.
When u live abroad, u r not as naive as b4, mind u, we all become more experienced whether we travel or not...its just life...but when u live in a mixed up society...u compare it with home and know exactly what u want to see more of, and what u don't want to see. Its like being in a cinema and watching the movie, not involved, but a judge.
So, here we should just think of the pros & cons and let our conscience be our judge.

Hi all
i do study abrode and i think its very nice to experince life away from family...it gives you a break to make you think by yourself...you deside not your parents your controling your life here not your parents...etc....
i think by studying abrode it give us the girls the indipandent to think more about life haveing idea about different culture so then when we have children we can teach them the good things that we learned from here......even we can know how far our family trust can reach....other thing is i think its our oppertuntiy to show the people here that the moslim girl can do alot of things and we can give them other idea about our islam & culture..(cuz the people here in UK think that we are not indipendent)...even when we show them how do we live here with our limitiation they will be impreased and they will now how independent (with limits)...i'm happy to study abrode not that i like this country life style but i like my life here and how can i manage :)

have a nice day

very interesting topic :)
i study abroad too and i find it a very good experience but with advantages and disadvantages...
by studying abroad i felt how lucky i am to be a muslim,and my love for my family grew stronger and stronger...
moreover,i had the chance to meet different people and to have my independant in limit :) because in oman,i done everything with my mom,for example.never did anything alone...
it also gave me the chance to tell the western people i met about my religion and my country which most of them were really ignorant and had false ideas about it!
sometimes i wonder why didnt i just applied to squ and kept away the homesickness and stress i feel because of being away..however,i than think this is what i'm doing now and i have to be stronge..
what annoys about studying abroad is the steriotype idea that some people have about us,girls,studying in a western country..in my opinion,studying away from your family even if it was an arabic country is similer to studying in a western country...because in both cases you only have God to watch you and no parents...

your sister,
samar :)

cool stuffs samar.

:)

I would say NO and NOOOOOOO.
I am male and studied and still studying abroad and I have seen enough of our girls how they take advantage of being away from those eyes etc.
I am talking about 98% of them. So again NOOOOOOO.

Hiii all
aka with all my respect to you i think your opinion is not fear really....by saying 98% taking advanteges ....
i will say few but i wouldn't say 98% you are exagoriating...... when you see your fingers you will notice that they are not same isn't it.....as a female i admite that their are some girls who miss behaving here but i have seen the most behaveing as our religion and culture ask us to behave so please don't say 98%.....maybe you wasn't lucky to meet some girls who are really behaving :)
come on .. as i said it is a chance for us to know alot and to rise our new genaration :)

HAVE A NICE DAY

brother aka.... :)
i respect your opinion,but i just have one question....how did you deduce that there are nearly 98% girls who are studying abroad and taking advantages of being away from those eyes as you said?..
in addition,i think you are studying in one university brother and this means that you have not seen all the girls who study abroad...
moreover brother...the girl is what her parents and family brought her up to be like so if anyone thought that a girl was taking advantages of being away from home to do anything,in my opinion this is the way her personality and the way she is even when she is in her own country and between her own family..
if you mean studying in a western country is the bad thing...i'll tell you that i know many girls who after studying in western country wore the "hegab" and became much more respectable and stronger in their religion than the one who went to study to an arab country"egypt" for example..i'm not generalising my opinion but i'm just trying to clear the same point i mentioned before,studying abroad does not always prove that the girl is going to become bad or something like that.and if anyone...anyone wanted to do what they want...nothing will stop them..except thier consious....
your sister,
samar :)

how are you guys:)

I do not think that anybody can be against women getting higher education,, however the problem comes when women study aboard,, I'v studied in the US for five years and i , a man, have seen and went through thing that i could not bare , I can not imagine a women in my place.

It is not because women can not bare what men can bare, but it is only because women have been created to live like DIAMONDS , and we men have to protect them and care for them....and that's my opinion, :)

Originally posted by aka
I would say NO and NOOOOOOO.
I am male and studied and still studying abroad and I have seen enough of our girls how they take advantage of being away from those eyes etc.
I am talking about 98% of them. So again NOOOOOOO.


Although I gave my opinion in regard to this issue but I’d like to go in depth with those who opposed women studying abroad bearing in mind that I respect all opinions.

My question to aka,,
Is it alright for male students to take advantage -in a bad way- of being abroad ??

I am sure your answer would be NO, in that case and following the logic you should've said “No for studying abroad for both genders”. Why do we always make things complicated when it comes to Women rights and take it easy with men!!!

Shouldn't you be realistic in your exaggerated percentage? lets say that there are really 100 Omani girls in the UK alright, then according to you there are only 2 respectful girls !!! I myself only met four Omani girls and all of them were excellent.

Originally posted by Beyond-The-Rainbow
how are you guys:)

I do not think that anybody can be against women getting higher education,, however the problem comes when women study aboard,, I'v studied in the US for five years and i , a man, have seen and went through thing that i could not bare , I can not imagine a women in my place.

It is not because women can not bare what men can bare, but it is only because women have been created to live like DIAMONDS , and we men have to protect them and care for them....and that's my opinion, :)

firstly, I'd like to welcome you in English Sabla.

Secondly, I consider you very experience especially in this kind of topics as you spent five years in the states but "women have been created to live like DIAMONDS" Is this a good excuse??.

Mate, “you cant imagine a women in your place” although there are 10s of girls who have finished successfully their higher Education from UK and USA!!.

To all:

These topics can be seen in two ways and in different perspectives, however, one point is missing here and that’s the DVDROM message was general about "Arab women" not Omani women or Muslim women. I am sure you all know there are Arab Jewish, Arab Christians and Arab Muslims, that’s why my reply meant to all categories and because I have seen all these backgrounds, I and other wish our women (Omani Muslim Women) don't be in this situation. Now someone will say, "oh no we Muslim don't behave like that, we Muslims have good family etc etc" Believe me family play minimal role in this with MOST people. What play major influence are the colleagues and friends that someone hang out with, they can be bad or can be good.

The question that I am asking is why we need our "diamond" as described by Beyond-The-Rainbow be seen, touched, embarrassed etc by strangers, koufar? Don't we have enough education in our country and why let our women do the work for us when we (the men) asked to work and struggle in this life, besides do you know how many secondary school boys without a job? Can you imagine this situation in years to come?

I am not against girls getting proper education or proper job and I mean PROPER with conditions of course, I am stressing my point here that boys must get the top priority in these field, because they are the ones that are responsible and have to build family future, women are secondary. They are our "Jewelries".

Originally posted by Miss Smiler
Hiii all
aka with all my respect to you i think your opinion is not fear really....by saying 98% taking advanteges ....
i will say few but i wouldn't say 98% you are exagoriating...... when you see your fingers you will notice that they are not same isn't it.....as a female i admite that their are some girls who miss behaving here but i have seen the most behaveing as our religion and culture ask us to behave so please don't say 98%.....maybe you wasn't lucky to meet some girls who are really behaving :)
come on .. as i said it is a chance for us to know alot and to rise our new genaration :)

HAVE A NICE DAY




[b]Miss Smiler[/u]

The 98% is based on what I have seen not what I heard, I don't say there isn’t any good ones of course there are.

Now, we are not talking about Omani girls remember, that’s why I said 98% this could reduce little if its meant to Omani Muslim for obvious reasons.

Well sis, I have seen the bad and the good, to give you an idea:


[-]Back in the mid 80s in UK there were three Omani girls that I knew and all of them dating non-Arab guys, so that’s 100%.
[-]Late 80s when I was again in the UK I seen and heard most of the Omani girls dating Neighboring country's guys so that’s above 92%.
Besides they don't wanna know or hear or see any Omanis, So sis, what you call that?!!
[-]Last 2 years I have seen and known all Arab-Muslim girls go to Discos/party etc that’s 100%.

Not to mention other non-muslim girls....unbelievable, worst than the local.
These are facts and figures, so please forgive me if I unintentionally embarrassed any of the good ones.

Alukum A' salamm sis,

Originally posted by samar
brother aka.... :)
i respect your opinion,but i just have one question....how did you deduce that there are nearly 98% girls who are studying abroad and taking advantages of being away from those eyes as you said?..
in addition,i think you are studying in one university brother and this means that you have not seen all the girls who study abroad...
moreover brother...the girl is what her parents and family brought her up to be like so if anyone thought that a girl was taking advantages of being away from home to do anything,in my opinion this is the way her personality and the way she is even when she is in her own country and between her own family..
if you mean studying in a western country is the bad thing...i'll tell you that i know many girls who after studying in western country wore the "hegab" and became much more respectable and stronger in their religion than the one who went to study to an arab country"egypt" for example..i'm not generalising my opinion but i'm just trying to clear the same point i mentioned before,studying abroad does not always prove that the girl is going to become bad or something like that.and if anyone...anyone wanted to do what they want...nothing will stop them..except thier consious....
your sister,
samar :)



samar:



As I mentioned in the same answer to All and Miss Smiler,

you mentioned "AFTER" !!!

That’s not good enough we are talking about during their study...thank you.

Originally posted by Beyond-The-Rainbow
how are you guys:)

I do not think that anybody can be against women getting higher education,, however the problem comes when women study aboard,, I'v studied in the US for five years and i , a man, have seen and went through thing that i could not bare , I can not imagine a women in my place.

It is not because women can not bare what men can bare, but it is only because women have been created to live like DIAMONDS , and we men have to protect them and care for them....and that's my opinion, :)



Beyond-The-Rainbow:

Thank you very much for your good, unbiased answer. I too studied in the UK for 5 years and now I am in the US :cool:

I mentioned my facts and figures based on my experience. I am sure other people have different opinions, its ok.


:)

Shouldn't you be realistic in your exaggerated percentage? lets say that there are really 100 Omani girls in the UK alright, then according to you there are only 2 respectful girls !!! I myself only met four Omani girls and all of them were excellent.




nzwani:

Bro:

The % based upon facts and figures that I have experienced during my stay in these countries.

I still respect everyone's facts and figures but not opinions based on emotions. Sorry. Pls see other earlier replies.


[Edited by aka on 02-12-2001 at 06:25 AM]

Alsalam 3alikom..
-------------------
AkA Wrote:
Beyond-The-Rainbow:

Thank you very much for your good, unbiased answer. I too studied in the UK for 5 years and now I am in the US

I mentioned my facts and figures based on my experience. I am sure other people have different opinions, its ok.
--------------------

Thanks AkA. Talking about women studying aboard then why should not they live , migrate, and live a FREE life aboard too (AS Some MEN DO) also they can create a family and let her husband take care of the house and raise the children,, and LET THEM BEAR THE CHILDREN TOO.
Yes women can be educated, a woman can be, and do what ever she like but she never can be a man.

NIZWANI wrote:

firstly, I'd like to welcome you in English Sabla.

Secondly, I consider you very experience especially in this kind of topics as you spent five years in the states but "women have been created to live like DIAMONDS" Is this a good excuse??.

Mate, “you cant imagine a women in your place” although there are 10s of girls who have finished successfully their higher Education from UK and USA!!.
---------------------------------------------
First of all, Thanks NIZWANI for your wellcome, and

Think beyond the words.. my friend,,, IF you just tried to think a little bit , you will see that that excuse is enough and more than enough...and

YES SIR,, I know that many girls have finished successfully,,, however

1) how do you measure success?, and
2) we are not thinking here how many of them succeeded or not,, just think of the possibility..I'v lived there and personally I am not ready to even send one of my family to an arabic countery , even UAE.
just think.. and thanks again.

[Edited by Beyond-The-Rainbow on 02-12-2001 at 08:43 AM]

Thanks for your replies and more thanks for following a scientific way in your discussions away from emotions... but here what I have to say::

1. You talked about era when I was still in my early stages at school (mid and late 80) so I am not going to argue a lot in that perspective as I never discussed that period before.

2. You escaped answering the first part of my post which was “Is it alright for male student to take advantages -in a bad way-of being abroad-??? please don’t say the topic relate to girls only because we have to go a bit further if we are about to implement equality.

3. You keep mentioning “facts and figures” I just wonder how could you gather these “facts and figures”. Did you make an investigation??? I don't blame you anyway because three girls can be easily known about. Now there are so many of them in the UK alone.

4. Are those girls who you talked about were good girls before going abroad and then suddenly changed or were they Saya3at from the first place??? ---I wonder if you also have facts and figures---:).

5. In one reply you said “.......[-]Last 2 years I have seen and known all Arab-Muslim girls go to Discos/party etc that’s 100%.....” Where? Is that in a whole country or in a tiny town you were living in. Were those Arab-Muslim girls living permanently or just to study??

To Rainbow,,
Sorry I got no time now but I'll reply later on.

Just when i thought this was a closed subject (to me that is), i discovered its not, coz its very interesting what "Beyond the Rainbow" had to say.

He/she is obviously does not support the idea of girls going abroad for education.
But what i need to know in order to give a useful response is WHY? why do u think NOT ya beyond-the-rainbow?

religous reasons?
or sexist reasons?

tara i believe that many many guys think the same but do not admit it as rainbow, bcz in this century and in this day it is not only sexist but also an act of racisim to declare so.

I agree, going abroad with no ma7rim is 7araam. That should be your reason, but bcz they misbehave...or bla bla like others said, then i'm sorry, u lost me.
To behave like a lune...or to drink...or crazy partying...is 7araam for both genders. And really, who mostly does the crazy things when away from home? dare i say za boyzzzzzzzzzz ! sorry, but its the truth, maybe many don't realize it bcz they truely honestly think that they have the right to be bad since they r free like birds. REmember this, "man shabaa 3ala shyin...shabaa 3alayh". SO, i wouldn't mix myself with anybody who has been a wild party freak onc-upon-a-time, and is now a declared "straight person". Sorry, i don't buy that, most ppl don't change..and as much as a guy wouldn't want to marry a girl who was once bad...i thinks girls should not marry men who were bad too.

Diamonds or not diamonds, we are all human beings and shoud be reffered to accordingly. Many guys talk about women as a secondary thing. Another species. 7areem!
It is drastically terrible when a women makes a mistake. She is wrong bcz she is a woman, not because she is a sinful human being.
IF u think human.....if u think Allah...if u think WHY, then i'm sure u'll get many things straight...and maybe boths sexes can work out their differences and stop thinking of each other as 2...but as one. After all, we are here for a purpose..to create. and why's that?
To Worship.
So now I say to YOU, THINK !!!!!!

Originally posted by Beyond-The-Rainbow

First of all, Thanks NIZWANI for your wellcome, and

Think beyond the words.. my friend,,, IF you just tried to think a little bit , you will see that that excuse is enough and more than enough...and

YES SIR,, I know that many girls have finished successfully,,, however

1) how do you measure success?, and
2) we are not thinking here how many of them succeeded or not,, just think of the possibility..I'v lived there and personally I am not ready to even send one of my family to an arabic countery , even UAE.
just think.. and thanks again.

[Edited by Beyond-The-Rainbow on 02-12-2001 at 08:43 AM]

Make sure mate that what I wrote did really reflect what I think about this issue, I mean, its not just words.

By saying “success” I meant those girls obtained the qualification and at the same time achieved the bigger test of being able to study abroad and cope with difficult circumstances not as many would think. About what bad individuals do, I would say its not just girls but both genders.

The bottom line is that you have your own opinion and I do respect that but I still have no abjection against girls going abroad to seek knowledge. However, I indicated in my first reply that I do prefer them to study at home.

Salaam to ALL

Despite of my very little time but I have to say these few last things to anyone who disagree with what I have said:

1. First to you nzwani:

You obviously a small kid since you said 1. You talked about era when I was still in my early stages at school (mid and late 80) so I am not going to argue a lot in that perspective as I never discussed that period before.

And which era are you or your supporters discussing? 30th century era? or Stone Age era?
It doesn’t matter what era or period or place you talking about since we are only 30 years old if you refer to Oman.

2. Second to you R.online

tara i believe that many many guys think the same but do not admit it as rainbow, bcz in this century and in this day it is not only sexist but also an act of racisim to declare so.

I am NOT talking about racisms here and if you believe this the only century that these kind of opinions known go back to the Prophet Mohammed era or Andulus or whatever era and compare.


3. Third, to ALL : can anyone tell me which country in the world has advanced because AND ONLY because of highly educated women? Do you know women in Islam are treated better than other man-made religions or culture? If you don't agree fine but look DEEP into western world or Soviet or China or Japan culture, see and study deep on how they use the women directly or indirectly intentionally or non-intentionally.

Now, as I said before I am NOT against PROPER women education/work.
I am sure the men will do just fine without highly educated women.


4. Finally, this is a long non-ending topic to discuss just like what’s called now "birth control" ...La houla wala quwa ila bil lah ....and I am gonna conclude this by reminding everyone of what Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) on this topic -- {{ Abu Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: It is not lawful for a Muslim woman to travel a distance equal to night's journey except when there is a Mahram (near kinsman) with her.}} (period).

Originally posted by aka
Salaam to ALL

Despite of my very little time but I have to say these few last things to anyone who disagree with what I have said:

1. First to you nzwani:

You obviously a small kid since you said 1. You talked about era when I was still in my early stages at school (mid and late 80) so I am not going to argue a lot in that perspective as I never discussed that period before.

And which era are you or your supporters discussing? 30th century era? or Stone Age era?
It doesn’t matter what era or period or place you talking about since we are only 30 years old if you refer to Oman.



I was trying to hold a very interesting dialogue but somehow you don’t seem to be interested maybe because I am “a small kid” according to you although I mentioned era to praise your experience and make sure that we don't misunderstand each other in regard to your “Facts and figures”. Unfortunately, you didn’t answer my queries and so there is no point in me proceeding this discussion but I am always open minded to any further changes.

Different opinions don't damage whole subject.

Hii Allll
it seems that everyone have things to say about this subject but from all the poeple i notice some nice things was said about US WOMEN and things make us women disapointed

THANK YOU NZWANI....YOUR REPLAY WAS FAIR REALLY.....I think i agree with most of your opinion espically "is it right for male take advantages-in bad way- of being abroad"!!!! :) i'm proud that there is an arabian man have this opinion about us women

you made me disapointed really aka.... so in what you have said you don't like or value what women aim....if you want the truth i think the arab guys don't want to see the arab girls to be well educate and in hight position(i know feel jelous admite it) it is a shame on you aka to say man suppose to have the women apperotunity...thats mean we are nothing in this worls we don't need to be educated.... what a shame to hear that..other thing of course you saw alot of misbehaving girls and you haven't seen the behaving one you know why cuz the behaving don't want to be known thats why they are always away from the lights(they don't want problems) and then you said that you have seen alot of arab girls dating non arabs...7aram 3alik how do u know if its a date or just meeting...cuz as you know sometimes there is group work and you have to do it with you collauge maybe the girls luck was to be with guys....other thing whats wrong if a girl go out with her friends from uni??? nothing wrong with that..or you just want her to go out with arab..in that way she will not learn anything


we didn't say that islam didn't treat us well and didn't make us equal with men..on the other hand, islam didn't stop us WOMEN to learn and to be educated :)....of course you know the say" al aumo madrash itha a3datoha a3data sha3b 6aybe ...." in other the words( the mother is a school if you preper her you prepear ...) sorry can't translate the whole say
our goverment or famillies trying to preper us so then we can raise a good and well educated generation...so every child his parents will be his (Mathel el a3la)
thats all what i wanted to say..i think this subject don't have an end and i hope you Mr. aka and all the guys who has negitive ideas about the WOMEN WHO STUDY ABRODE just think again and look at it in a bright way and i'm sure that you will see the advantages more then disadvanteges
sorry for this long post ;)

HAVE A NICE DAY!!!! :)

To R.online, and to all:

See education builds civilizations,, in my first post in this issue I said that nobody can steel the women’s right for education from them, and I have seen women go and study aboard and become an idle in their societies,, but still as you say that it is 7ARAM for a women to travel with out a Ma7ram,,, if it is all right for her to travel to western countries alone then why not Maka for Haj, which can not be as you know. So, this issue is closed.

Secondly, this all issue of comparison between men and women is an international issue, and let me tell you a quote of an American girl on this issue “ IF THERE WASN’T ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN, THEY WOULD NOT MAKE THIS EQUALITY ISSUE A BIG DEAL”.

Finally, I understood from you and Nizwani that it is the same for men and women to be bad,,OOOOOOOOO till here and stop>
You know that in our life this is not true,,,,and as you know women ARE FRGILE and they are…..Bad man,,,he can have a good life in our society so easily. In the other hand,,if only a bad roomer hits about a girl,, then her life is over,, and I you yourself I dare you that to marry a women with a bad reputation.
And GIRLS,, I am not against you but I am a realistic person and I am only telling you how reality taste,, and feel..that’s all.
And thank you all,,Nizwani , Aka, R.onlin, and girls.

brother aka,
I see your point of view and i do respect it and appreciate your reply to "some" of my quiries.i even,as i mentioned in my first reply to this thread that i do wish sometimes i studied in my own country.
However,you said"The question that I am asking is why we need our "diamond" as described by Beyond-The-Rainbow be seen, touched, embarrassed etc by strangers, koufar?"!.... you know something brother,i find this statement really strange,because the strangers here dont dare touching or embarrasing muslim girls. what i'm saying is from experience and what many girls will say.
most of Arab girls in UK and USA tend to stick together and not mixing with other nationalities except,for instance,during lectureres.
you said "you mentioned "AFTER" !!!"..yes i did mention after,but i meant after starting studying abroad and not after graduating and this means during their studies.

some had mentioned something about equality...i do agree very strongley that we women will never ever be equal to man..because (alrejaal qawamoon 3ala alnesaa)....but i do want to have my education..and i do want this steriotype of saying how bad we are by studying abroad to disappear.

your sister,
samar :)

samar i strongly agree with you and i'm soooooo proud that you are one of the muslim omani recpicted girl that studying abroad...........join the club samar ...... we all here for one aim TO BE WELL EDUCATED :)

HAVE A NICE DAY :)

Salaam to ALL

To me this topic can go endlessly and because each one have different opinions from his/her own views/experiance/relgion etc lets just leave it like that and respect each other's opinion.

The same topic been discussed in the Arabic Sabla at this link for those interested:
http://www.omania.net/vip/ubb/Forum3/HTML/005007.html

And because I have English OS I am not able to register there "I wish I could"

Samar:

SIS:
nothing personal but I am glad you understand there is no equality between men and women and this is not only in the islamic view but to give you an idea, in the US , if I and you were colleague and have the same degree the same experiance all same qualifications, in MOST cases I get paid more than you if we work the same position. Not everyone knows this but this is true. Click this link to see an example what I mean then click "gender" http://computerjobs.com/salary2000/index.asp
Many other jobs is even worse in some companies.

Well, to me this topic discussion is concluded. Sorry for those who got disappointed and thanks for those who have the same opinion.


AKA.

Miss smiler :)
brother aka: thanks anyway for spending time in discussing this topic with us and if you wanted to continue going on discussing this matter,you'll find me here :)
thank you all and all my respect to all of you.(walekhtelaaf felrai la yofsed lilwed qadhiya).
you can join in arabic sablah and use the (mouse)to write with.
your sister,
samar





[Edited by samar on 02-22-2001 at 04:00 PM]

Dear aka:

I am terribly sorry that i have not been able to respond to this thread sooner, however, here i am and ready for a debate. So, where have we been, yes, I said:

tara i believe that many many guys think the same but do not admit it as rainbow, bcz in this century and in this day it is not only sexist but also an act of racisim to declare so.

You said:

I am NOT talking about racisms here and if you believe this the only century that these kind of opinions known go back to the Prophet Mohammed era or Andulus or whatever era and compare.

so i now say:

well, who said that 3asr el jahiliya is over? its just the latest version. If some men consider "7areem" as a different race, then yes...it is racism. whatever they call it, its not very nice. Don't get me wrong, there is not any other religon on this earth that gave women the respect that she deserves like any other human being like Islam. Thats permanant, Islam is and always will be the way of life for both men & women. But what i'm trying to point out to our shabaab, is to try and wipe out "bakaya el jahiliya" that they have left from their forefathers days. Why look at it from one angle, why not blame yourselves for a change. Perhaps if women had more respect from their husbands they wouldn't have felt so insecure and tried to fulfill that insecurity by doing more and more of studies. Wu ba3deen who said high education is 7araam?

I know a girl who has recently been divorced bcz her husband beat her up and wanted her to stop her education. He appears to be a God-fearing person and everyone speaks of him so highly but in reality he's just like an empty vase. Nice from the outise but just shallow from the inside. Try to be more objective.
Her mother (and father) is a very religous person who also agrees that a woman would be more serving to her community by staying with her family (mind u , u can still study) but she feels that she can't help not providing her daughter an education bcz as much as life provides no gaurantees, so does a man.
Women only stayed with their men b4 bcz they had no where to go. No education, no nothing. Now that they have a choice, suddenly, men are feeling threatened. Thats due to tradition ofcourse not Islam. Umahaat el mumineen were very active women who did a lot for their societies, even went to war. The prophet (Salla Allahu 3alayh wasalam) sew his own clothes, so let us reverse the tables now and ask the men, are you better than the prophet? for many men feel it degrading to do a woman's job. But alas, who said it is?

I am sorry, i am not generalising here...but its a fact of life. And one day u guys will be fathers & have your own children and u will want to give them the best security u can provide.

Also, u said:

3. Third, to ALL : can anyone tell me which country in the world has advanced because AND ONLY because of highly educated women? Do you know women in Islam are treated better than other man-made religions or culture? If you don't agree fine but look DEEP into western world or Soviet or China or Japan culture, see and study deep on how they use the women directly or indirectly intentionally or non-intentionally.

I now say:

You haven't done a proper analysis here. These cultures r not doing fine NOT bcz they have highly educated women. Its because they don't have a religon! They have the wrong concepts. They still don't respect women, although they declare that they do. Women r just objects there. They r not successful bcz they simply have chosen the wrong path.
Imagine if we were like saudi arabia, dividing things into "his" & "hers". That way the ladies will have a chance to serve their own kind without the men feeling threatened, without the need to mix and without many other issues that have been bothering us as a society.

u said:

Now, as I said before I am NOT against PROPER women education/work.
I am sure the men will do just fine without highly educated women.

so now i say:
Yes, u men will do fine, but not us women. We need our female friends to be doctors, teachers, and anything else they can be thats allowed in Islam. Just a lil bit of wisdom will take all of us a long way. You know, just try thinking of your other half Adam (for a change) and we'll all get along well.

ok, sorry if its too long..looking forward to hearing your opinions.

R. Online

How you been? Thanks for the reply.

I have tried to come to this forum for the past few days but I couldn’t because of (maybe) Sabla server or something.
Also, to me this subject was closed because I have opinions that are different from others and same for someone else's.

Anyway, looking at your answer I feel like responding and briefly:

Me and you seems to agree in a few principles. When I say men will do just fine... I mean in many places; for example, why women mix with men in offices, factory, constructions and other engineering, Admin, Law etc positions. We require women to concentrate in those areas where they are mandatory requirements like education, medical and so on. As I said ONLY where it is fundamental. However, many and I mean many women take advantages and go further which I personally and I think Islam don not accept.

However, the topic is about women studying abroad, so in general I would say again no and NO.

I am sure there are Of course some exceptions, there are women who are better than men in their behavior and conduct whether they are home or abroad I am not denying that, but its enough if there is very few who are bad, that’s why Islam made it clear in general.... got my point?

One more thing, if you happened just for the sake of argument, you know two people brother and sister going abroad to study and both of them are bad. After coming home everyone knows about them, which one do you think will be criticized more the boy or the girl? Of course the girl. Now if its time to get married which one will face difficulties? ya know of course who.!!!

There are many good unmarried girls there who passed the marriage ideal time and still can't get a good husband, imagine, what would it be the case for that "bad" girl who studied abroad and had many boyfriends, drunker, smoker etc.???
The answer is very clear.... so why give chance for gossiping and unending criticism. Avoid it is the answer ...right??!

Did I say I will reply briefly….oops sry :)

Take care.

AKA, TX, USA.

I perfectly agree. I agree that this is the way it is in our culture. Its a fact.

But i do not agree on the concept. To say that the girl better stay away bcz she will get more trouble than the guy is wrong. Three things:

1- now that u agree with me that bad is bad whether ur a male or a female, then u should start saying "right, u did wrong...then accept the consequences, bnaya wala sbay!"

2- why should ppl blame a bad girl more than a bad boy? that tells u something for sure. some concepts r not straight.

3- U keep saying "who'll be looked at first,.,...who will get difficulties with marrigge (i.e. girl)". But don't u see, your debate is totally focused on the society's point of view, its not Islamic-wise. It should be bcz no 1 its wrong and bcz of the fear of God, not bcz what ppl say.

i think its just 1 point rather than 3.
oh well, i guess that they r many things that we do wrong....i'm sure that without even leaving home we will find many things in our daily lives that r even worse. Its funny how we choose some things and leave the rest.

I'm done i guess. Take care now.

hii ,,,
i met many girls studying abroad ,,, i gotta say they r really having big challenge coz of living in another country with different views & cultures ....it is really difficult for men ,,,so what about the women ,,,
*************
but unfortunatily few of them choose the wrong way,,, :(

i am not against woemn studying abroad.. but as it has been mentioend above.. you are leaving ur country , u will be carrying ur body and ur culture with u . thus u must have some respect to ur body and to ur country values and tradition.

everybody loves to be independent and this is teh human nature but sometime we have to control ourselves and desires.. similar like u are controling ur self from having sex on the street .

it is up to u which direction to choose.. to deviate from ur cultural values or stay with them. but remeber u have to think about the consequences..

It is an old topic. However, an important one. And it can be discussed over and over again and we will have different points of views,which I all respect. :)
What I can only say is: it takes all sorts to make the world..


regards to all :)
Samar